Congress having two engines for the F-35?

packermatt7

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
804
I find this to be odd...

The F-35 is a single-engine, stealthy fighter being bought in different versions for the U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marines. After a series of competitions, the Pratt & Whitney unit of United Technologies (NYSE:UTX) was awarded a contract in 1996 to develop the plane's propulsion system, which is designated the F135 engine.

But in a blatant subsidy to the losing General Electric (NYSE:GE) engine team, the U.S. Congress then directed that a second engine should be developed so that the government could enjoy the benefits of "competition." Congress did this despite the fact that the winning engine had already prevailed in half a dozen public and private competitions and despite the fact that no other part of the plane would be competed once production commenced.

The Pentagon refuses to request funds for the alternate engine, arguing the money would be better spent on other projects. But congressional proponents keep funding the program, saying that having two interchangeable engines competing for annual contracts will drive down costs, bolster the industrial base and provide a hedge against the failure of the primary F135 engine.

These arguments are specious; in all likelihood, having two engines will drive up costs, reduce safety, impede gains in performance and weaken the industrial base. As the sole customer, the government will have to pay all the costs for sustaining two design teams, two supply chains and two production sites throughout the life of the program, and in return it will get a propulsion system in which everything is more complicated.

Full article:
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industr...astes_billions_of_dollars/UPI-58191235486777/

Why keep funding competition between two engines? Wouldn't it be smarter to put those funds into other projects, say, the F-22? Or maybe put them back into the JSF program. I don't understand.
And why mess with maintenance of two different engines, when one has already proved to be superior? Wouldn't this endanger pilots?
 

flyersboy114

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
821
Wow! My stomach just did flips! This is very disturbing, goes to show corruption is clearly evident in congress
 

RaptorDad2013

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
141
Nah! You're just developing a bigger "world view" as you start to look at things in a broader light. Now that you're either an apointee or a candidate, you start to really read things that, maybe a year ago, were just another "current events" assignment in AP US History! :shake: They have greater meaning to you now.

The example you cite is why some of us parents and others who have already "been there" don't automatically believe a politician, even if it is the President, who says "Pork? There is NO pork in this Stimulus Bill!"

So, it's not "corruption" but someone looking out for their local jet engine manufacturer in their home district. All you can hope is that there are others in Congress who refuse to accept a bill with that language in it. The fact that the Administration (through the DOD) is saying "we don't want it" is a way of giving others in Congress a heads up as to what is going on. Just chalk this up to a great "learning experience" example!
 

oldgrad

Banned
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
137
The thing that bothers me most about the entire F-35 program is that the aircraft only has one engine. Perhaps they can redesign it and put one of each type in it.
 

flyersboy114

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
821
The thing that bothers me most about the entire F-35 program is that the aircraft only has one engine. Perhaps they can redesign it and put one of each type in it.

That wouldnt work to well haha.
 

Bullet

10-Year Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
997
The thing that bothers me most about the entire F-35 program is that the aircraft only has one engine.

Part of that pesky "we got to keep it light so we can make a STOVL version" problem. Adding another engine would have made the F-35 MUCH heavier. Not a big issue to the AF, a slight issue for the Navy, but a show-stopper for the Marines.
 

Bullet

10-Year Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
997
BTW, the first STOVL bird in the "operational" configuration flew this week. The first few AF "operational" birds start flying in a few weeks as well. The flight testing will really kick off fast and furious by this summer....
 

unitedstatesAFA2013

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
383
Does congress really think that the current engine is not sufficient enough? Or are they really just trying to pass some pork? That's the lamest thing I've heard. It won't even create that many jobs.
 

Pima

10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
13,977
You do know what they call a 16 right? LAWN DART...many Strike people will jokingly state at least I am not flying a lawn dart...wives will also talk about how we feel better with our DH's having 2 engines in case something happens to 1.
 

packermatt7

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
804
You do know what they call a 16 right? LAWN DART...many Strike people will jokingly state at least I am not flying a lawn dart...wives will also talk about how we feel better with our DH's having 2 engines in case something happens to 1.
Two engines: very good
One engine: fine
One engine, but changes every year for the new bird: sucks
 

unitedstatesAFA2013

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
383
You do know what they call a 16 right? LAWN DART...many Strike people will jokingly state at least I am not flying a lawn dart...wives will also talk about how we feel better with our DH's having 2 engines in case something happens to 1.

Also, the 15s are much better looking birds. ;)
 

Bullet

10-Year Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
997
If it gets to the point where you're in a visible dog-fight against an F-15, the Eagle driver screwed up a LOOOONG time ago. The same can be said for the F-35 pilot...
 

unitedstatesAFA2013

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
383
Isn't this were some saying can be applied: "If you see me, I'm already dead?" or did I just make that up lol
 

packermatt7

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
804
If it gets to the point where you're in a visible dog-fight against an F-15, the Eagle driver screwed up a LOOOONG time ago. The same can be said for the F-35 pilot...
What if IFF screwed up, or AWACS couldn't confirm "bandit"? Didn't that happen a lot in the Gulf War?
 

Pima

10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
13,977
I might be wrong, but I always thought that the radar shows all of the players on your team when you take off in a package, thus you should be able to quickly realize you have an univited guest to the party!

I say I might be wrong, because Bullet will tell you that after looking into the cockpit of the 111, I quickly realized there were alot of things that he had to do to get home to me safely...IGNORANCE IS BLISS:shake: I have never ever seen the inside of the Strike, and as a spouse on spouses day, I never did the SIM either and 21 yrs later I am A-OKAY with not ever knowing!

BTW the ugliest bird out there is the A-10...JK! The stealth is the ugliest, but when you attack the A-10 people get riled and I just had to do it:wink:
 

flieger83

Super Moderator
10-Year Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
5,219
If it gets to the point where you're in a visible dog-fight against an F-15, the Eagle driver screwed up a LOOOONG time ago. The same can be said for the F-35 pilot...

So VERY True!!!
 

Bullet

10-Year Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
997
packermatt, much more was involved than just the toys on the plane. It's called TACTICS and PROCEDURES, and using those toys properly. Screw them up, and you WILL find yourself in a visual dog-fight, flaring off incoming missiles for all it's worth. And it won't matter how good your toys are.

And that's all I've got to say on that.... (I'm not a smart man, but I know what getting my butt blown out of the sky is...)
 
Top