Course Load Question with regards to rigor

[Heatherg21]

Adding to other wise posts. There is no way to 100% game plan this.

I can only speak to our DS experience. Small rural school. No AP, limited dual credit. No STEM program.

Admissions recognizes and acknowledges this across all schools nation wide. Not only do schools not have consistent and equal offerings in terms of courses, they have different grading, ranking and weighted policies.

The USNA application includes a high school guidance counselor providing demographic info and verification of an applicant’s sports, academic, and extracurricular participation.

SA’s know there are massive variances amongst schools.

End of the day, did the applicant take the hard path, manage their time, juggle all of the tasks at hand, prioritize tasks, balance priorities? These are all skills a Midshipman will need.

I’m not knocking the OP when they ask where can I break? Or let go of something? My plate is full?

That is a valid question and one that deserves a thoughtful strategic response.

Just keep in mind your competitors may be asking themselves the same. How do you differentiate yourself? How do you see the goal, align your actions toward it and achieve it?

 

[2030GoNavy]

Thanks! I would greatly appreciate it.

https://a.co/d/afGb2lL

 

[Scoot27]

thank you everyone for all the responses, this input has helped me come to a decision regarding how I work through this.

I decided to take All these courses (all 4 aps, honors german, honors engineering), but also take a study hall 1st semester as ap gov is only 1 semester (also only offered in 2nd semester). This way I can gradually ease into the full load, and also have more leeway to see if I can handle the load, with sports and extracurriculars. If I can't manage all these APs witt with a study hall, Ill drop AP Lit before it goes on my transcript, and drop the studyhall for computer classes that I am interested in, and that are recommended on the USNA website. This way I am pushing myself, but am also being realistic. I feel that this can also be explained on an application if asked about it, for I did try to take the hardest path possible, but chose to be realistic if it doesnt work out. It sucks that I can't take an honors English class and sit for the AP exam as no honors English 3 is offered, but this is what I AM able to do.

Thank you all for all your helpful input and guidance, my parents are kind of useless on this because while my mom was an academic weapon, she didn't do much sports or extracurriculars (doesn't think its possible to balance it all), and my Dad is a first gen immigrant from India with no college degree who doesn't know the american school system at all nor understand AP courses that well. If anyone has any final input to add regarding my thought process with this, it would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Scoot27]

Burnout is nonetheless a real concern. Here’s what I would do in your position: Figure out what are your graduation requirements. Anything that isn’t either required OR enhancing your competitiveness for admissions goes to the wayside. May mean letting go of a fun or interesting elective, but you can decide whether that’s worth it.

Regarding this, does taking Honors Engineering classes look good for competitiveness, or does admissions only really care about core classes? The class is fun, the workload manageable, and related to my goals regarding my major, but if it doesn't help at all would it be better to take a study hall so It's easier to excel in my core classes such as AP precalc, Ap Lit, Ap phys, Ap gov, and future APs?

 

[Kierkegaard]

Regarding this, does taking Honors Engineering classes look good for competitiveness, or does admissions only really care about core classes? The class is fun, the workload manageable, and related to my goals regarding my major, but if it doesn't help at all would it be better to take a study hall so It's easier to excel in my core classes such as AP precalc, Ap Lit, Ap phys, Ap gov, and future APs?

My hunch is that yes, it’s better to forgo the elective and put all your chips into acing those core classes.

 

[DanteoftheBloodAngels]

thank you everyone for all the responses, this input has helped me come to a decision regarding how I work through this.

I decided to take All these courses (all 4 aps, honors german, honors engineering), but also take a study hall 1st semester as ap gov is only 1 semester (also only offered in 2nd semester). This way I can gradually ease into the full load, and also have more leeway to see if I can handle the load, with sports and extracurriculars. If I can't manage all these APs witt with a study hall, Ill drop AP Lit before it goes on my transcript, and drop the studyhall for computer classes that I am interested in, and that are recommended on the USNA website. This way I am pushing myself, but am also being realistic. I feel that this can also be explained on an application if asked about it, for I did try to take the hardest path possible, but chose to be realistic if it doesnt work out. It sucks that I can't take an honors English class and sit for the AP exam as no honors English 3 is offered, but this is what I AM able to do.

Thank you all for all your helpful input and guidance, my parents are kind of useless on this because while my mom was an academic weapon, she didn't do much sports or extracurriculars (doesn't think its possible to balance it all), and my Dad is a first gen immigrant from India with no college degree who doesn't know the american school system at all nor understand AP courses that well. If anyone has any final input to add regarding my thought process with this, it would be appreciated. Thank you!

Sounds like good practice for what life would be like at an SA. Time management will be a good skill to learn.

 

[Scoot27]

My hunch is that yes, it’s better to forgo the elective and put all your chips into acing those core classes.

Makes sense, If I can handle AP lit, but i need a study hall first semester, maybe I'll just drop engineering second semester to be able to keep a study hall to be able to suceed in that. I would have thought adding an Engineering Honors course looks good rigor and challenge wise, as well as showing well roundedness, but it makes sense that the academies care more about success in core AP courses then success in other courses. I definitely will try to succeed without that year-round study hall though.

 

[Inyati90]

'School Profile' has been mentioned several times above. Is that a 'report card' of how rigorous (or not) a school is? Our school counselor has told us that all courses taught at our school are 'college prep' (CP) courses. I think this means that even the basic courses (not Honors, not AP, not IB) are inherently more difficult (and rigorous) that a comparable course at a different school. Our school is private and therefore they can 'turn up' the rigor and difficulty. These CP courses then play better to college admissions when comparing one high school to another.

Any insight to what I wrote above...most of that is parroted from our school counselors. I've always wondered about a high school 'profile' in that it actually matters what high school you attend....yes/no?

 

[USMC Crayons]

Hello Everyone

Course selections are coming up for next year (junior), and currently I am loaded up with a heavy courseload. Realistically, sustaining straight A's with a courseload this heavy would be extremely taxing. The USNA website says it emphasizes a strong base in english and mathematics, but how do I make my courseload manageable with sports and extracurriculars?

Currently I am slated for

AP Pre-Calc
Ap Physics 1
Ap Gov (not worried, APush and APhug extremely easy for me)
Ap English Lit
Honors Principles Engineering 2 (engineering course at our school)
German 4 Honors (not much harder than regulars, staying in it for seal of biliteracy)
Leadership Principles (taking instead of weightroom period for PE, kinda just a leadership and teambuilding thingy)


I want to go for an Engineering Degree of sorts, with maybe a side in PolySci. Would it hurt me to not do AP lit and take regular Eng 3 instead? I've taken honors English in freshsoph years, and test very well on english on the PSAT. I could do it and be successful but the homework load in addition to everything else could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I know USNA values Rigor, and I have no aversion to hard work, but realistically I don't know how realistic it is to take this heavy of a courseload with club wrestling, track, and wrestling, as well as boy scouts (likely will serve another 6 month term as SPL (highest leadership position, need to be EXTREMELY active, of a 45 scout troop).

here are past courseloads to get an idea of past workloads.

geometry
biology
APhug
English 1 H
Comp Sci principles
German 2 H


Alg 2 H
Chem
APush
English 2 H
Engineering Princ 1 H
German 3 H

To sum it up, If Im going for engineering with a possible minor in Polysci, would taking normal english (only options english 3 or AP lit junior year) hurt my chances of admission? Is my courseload without AP Lit strong enough to be competitive? Sorry if I went on, but I have given this much thought and need to make selections by friday, and don't know what to do. Thank you!

Not academic related, maybe a little more towards Noms (but I am sure it matters to admissions). If you have not already done so, get Eagle Scout and if possible, try to do something leadership wise high adventure. DS was crew leader for Philmont and that scored him major points with the nominating committee and while I don't know how much that will help with admissions, it can't hurt. There has to be a good reason that USNA, USMA and AFA send current cadets/Mids to Philmont each summer to act as guides....can't imagine they would not do so unless they really liked the program.

 

[2030GoNavy]

'School Profile' has been mentioned several times above. Is that a 'report card' of how rigorous (or not) a school is? Our school counselor has told us that all courses taught at our school are 'college prep' (CP) courses. I think this means that even the basic courses (not Honors, not AP, not IB) are inherently more difficult (and rigorous) that a comparable course at a different school. Our school is private and therefore they can 'turn up' the rigor and difficulty. These CP courses then play better to college admissions when comparing one high school to another.

Any insight to what I wrote above...most of that is parroted from our school counselors. I've always wondered about a high school 'profile' in that it actually matters what high school you attend....yes/no?

It is a profile of the school and curriculum. It lists what courses are available and the different levels. The grading philosophy/max GPA. It usually has the breakdown of grades so if 50% of honors 11th grade English gets an A colleges know there is grade inflation. They also list average ACT and SAT scores for the graduating class and the prior years college matriculation list.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Makes sense, If I can handle AP lit, but i need a study hall first semester, maybe I'll just drop engineering second semester to be able to keep a study hall to be able to suceed in that. I would have thought adding an Engineering Honors course looks good rigor and challenge wise, as well as showing well roundedness, but it makes sense that the academies care more about success in core AP courses then success in other courses. I definitely will try to succeed without that year-round study hall though.

Service Academy admissions is a competitive activity. Are your competitors choosing study halls over classes?
I've interviewed many candidates who not only don't have study halls, they end up not scheduling lunch so they can take
an additional class. I've seen quite a few who get their school/teacher to allow them to eat a granola bar or similar
while in class since they are scheduled through lunch.
NOTE: Before someone tells me that "their school" does not allow scheduling though lunch, let me say that this was also the case for these candidate's schools. They had to beg/demand it with parental approval.

One of my BGO applicants from last year was doing that while also a state finalist in his sport as well as working part time to
pay some board to his aunt who he lived with.

 

[Scoot27]

Service Academy admissions is a competitive activity. Are your competitors choosing study halls over classes?

This is also true! My thought process is take a study hall (for that 1 semester I dont have APgov) to try to do the hardest stuff, and if I can handle it with a study hall, then wean myself off it and push harder. I did think about dropping Engineering to do a study hall to do better in APs, but came to the conclusion that it was just better to drive until I begin to finally crack under the pressure, then ease off only enough to make that pressure sustainable. Boy scouts (again, I'm extremely active, have served as SPL and PL, gunning for reelection) + Sports means that mondays quite literally do not have enough hours in the day to get work done, so it's definitely a process to figure out how to juggle priorities.

 

[DanteoftheBloodAngels]

This is also true! My thought process is take a study hall (for that 1 semester I dont have APgov) to try to do the hardest stuff, and if I can handle it with a study hall, then wean myself off it and push harder. I did think about dropping Engineering to do a study hall to do better in APs, but came to the conclusion that it was just better to drive until I begin to finally crack under the pressure, then ease off only enough to make that pressure sustainable. Boy scouts (again, I'm extremely active, have served as SPL and PL, gunning for reelection) + Sports means that mondays quite literally do not have enough hours in the day to get work done, so it's definitely a process to figure out how to juggle priorities.

There's surely a better mindset to be had than predicting oneself cracking under pressure.

 

[Heatherg21]

This is also true! My thought process is take a study hall (for that 1 semester I dont have APgov) to try to do the hardest stuff, and if I can handle it with a study hall, then wean myself off it and push harder. I did think about dropping Engineering to do a study hall to do better in APs, but came to the conclusion that it was just better to drive until I begin to finally crack under the pressure, then ease off only enough to make that pressure sustainable. Boy scouts (again, I'm extremely active, have served as SPL and PL, gunning for reelection) + Sports means that mondays quite literally do not have enough hours in the day to get work done, so it's definitely a process to figure out how to juggle priorities.

Not knocking you for trying to manage a schedule with multiple obligations that pull you in all directions.

Your competitors are figuring it out. Anyone who attends a SA has to figure out how to get more out of a 24 hour day then 24 hours allows.

Every person who is applying and kicking butt may have sports, family challenges, academics, clubs, church, volunteer work, a job, club sports, etc etc etc.

You won’t find a study hall on your schedule at a SA.
I know I sound like a jerk but sometimes tough love and truth are a good thing.

 

[IronmanDaremo]

They call "study hall" enjoying some ...... uhhhhh ...... quiet time at Nimitz, or having a "Youngster" afternoon. Plebes tend to lack the second one, but you will find a plethora of them enjoying some of the other, according to my kid's experience. He said the library was often like a hostel with how many people were enjoying the quiet.

 

[A1Janitor]

They call "study hall" enjoying some ...... uhhhhh ...... quiet time at Nimitz, or having a "Youngster" afternoon. Plebes tend to lack the second one, but you will find a plethora of them enjoying some of the other, according to my kid's experience. He said the library was often like a hostel with how many people were enjoying the quiet.

Times have changed. I majored in study hall when I went to high school.

My son never had study halls. There were semesters where he had classes during lunch.

 

[worldtraveler5116]

Not academic related, maybe a little more towards Noms (but I am sure it matters to admissions). If you have not already done so, get Eagle Scout and if possible, try to do something leadership wise high adventure. DS was crew leader for Philmont and that scored him major points with the nominating committee and while I don't know how much that will help with admissions, it can't hurt. There has to be a good reason that USNA, USMA and AFA send current cadets/Mids to Philmont each summer to act as guides....can't imagine they would not do so unless they really liked the program.

Thank you so much! My class of ‘30 son I s finishing Eagle and doing Philmont this summer

 

[Scoot27]

Thank you so much! My class of ‘30 son I s finishing Eagle and doing Philmont this summer

Same! I'm doing Philmont this summer with my troop, really looking forward to it.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I'm doing Philmont this summer with my troop, really looking forward to it.

Enjoy ..truly a growth experience. I agree 100% with USMC Crayons on the value of Scouting and the High Adventure experience. I went to Philmont is 1977 and had a great experience. I always wanted to get back there. (I missed an opportunity a few years ago -- they run a weekend fly fishing trip for Scout Executives and key Council scouters...but my Scout Executive moved on to another position).

 

[8th Wing Refugee]

Enjoy ..truly a growth experience. I agree 100% with USMC Crayons on the value of Scouting and the High Adventure experience. I went to Philmont is 1977 and had a great experience. I always wanted to get back there. (I missed an opportunity a few years ago -- they run a weekend fly fishing trip for Scout Executives and key Council scouters...but my Scout Executive moved on to another position).

Always regretted not going there. Went to two jamborees and an OA national conclave instead.