Course Load Question with regards to rigor

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Scoot27

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Joined
Mar 6, 2024
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36
Hello Everyone

Course selections are coming up for next year (junior), and currently I am loaded up with a heavy courseload. Realistically, sustaining straight A's with a courseload this heavy would be extremely taxing. The USNA website says it emphasizes a strong base in english and mathematics, but how do I make my courseload manageable with sports and extracurriculars?

Currently I am slated for

AP Pre-Calc
Ap Physics 1
Ap Gov (not worried, APush and APhug extremely easy for me)
Ap English Lit
Honors Principles Engineering 2 (engineering course at our school)
German 4 Honors (not much harder than regulars, staying in it for seal of biliteracy)
Leadership Principles (taking instead of weightroom period for PE, kinda just a leadership and teambuilding thingy)


I want to go for an Engineering Degree of sorts, with maybe a side in PolySci. Would it hurt me to not do AP lit and take regular Eng 3 instead? I've taken honors English in freshsoph years, and test very well on english on the PSAT. I could do it and be successful but the homework load in addition to everything else could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I know USNA values Rigor, and I have no aversion to hard work, but realistically I don't know how realistic it is to take this heavy of a courseload with club wrestling, track, and wrestling, as well as boy scouts (likely will serve another 6 month term as SPL (highest leadership position, need to be EXTREMELY active, of a 45 scout troop).

here are past courseloads to get an idea of past workloads.

geometry
biology
APhug
English 1 H
Comp Sci principles
German 2 H


Alg 2 H
Chem
APush
English 2 H
Engineering Princ 1 H
German 3 H

To sum it up, If Im going for engineering with a possible minor in Polysci, would taking normal english (only options english 3 or AP lit junior year) hurt my chances of admission? Is my courseload without AP Lit strong enough to be competitive? Sorry if I went on, but I have given this much thought and need to make selections by friday, and don't know what to do. Thank you!
 
The guidance most commonly given here, by those who've gone through the SA process or otherwise been close to it: Take the hardest classes your school has to offer -- especially in STEM and English -- and excel at them.

USNA will examine your entire transcript alongside your school profile to determine if you truly pushed yourself in the subjects that matter most, in light of the classes your school offers. Yes, they do focus on rigor because USNA is a rigorous place. One of the best ways to determine whether someone has what it takes to succeed as a mid -- and eventually an officer -- is to see if they've done it in high school. The same rigors you mention (classes, sports, extracurriculars) are present at USNA, where you'll be pushed even harder than you are now.

You mention "breaking point" and "extremely taxing." Many -- maybe most -- of those applying to USNA find a way to manage it all and succeed. For proof, simply look at the latest class profile. Successful applicants found a way, likely through ruthless prioritization and relentless time management. Those same skills are paramount for getting through USNA.

Finally, I've yet to see evidence that USNA considers one's desired major in the admissions process. So I wouldn't use "I plan to major in engineering" as rationale for taking a lower-level English class.

By the way, some may post that they got in without taking AP Lit, or that they didn't get in despite taking AP Lit. Remember that USNA admissions is a complex endeavor with many moving parts. What works for one candidate may not work for another.
 
Great post by @MidCakePa!! Look at primary source rec’s and class profiles on USNA.edu. Taking the hardest classes, and doing well is a great general plan. That’s what your slate competition will be doing.

Your struggles in your post, will be your challenges at USNA. One of the most important over-arching goals of a SA experience, is time management/prioritization. BC that is one the most important skills of an Officer, making choices and decisions on the fly in a chaotic and stressful environment. So, exhibiting that you are able to do this already, at the high school level, is beneficial as far as obtaining an appointment.

This isn’t to say that someone without some of these academics shouldn’t apply, or doesn’t have a chance. It’s a whole candidate look. You have to decide what makes sense for you. But in general, a successful candidate will have taken the most challenging classes their school offered.
 
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Scoot27 said:
Hello Everyone

Course selections are coming up for next year (junior), and currently I am loaded up with a heavy courseload. Realistically, sustaining straight A's with a courseload this heavy would be extremely taxing. The USNA website says it emphasizes a strong base in english and mathematics, but how do I make my courseload manageable with sports and extracurriculars?

Currently I am slated for

AP Pre-Calc
Ap Physics 1
Ap Gov (not worried, APush and APhug extremely easy for me)
Ap English Lit
Honors Principles Engineering 2 (engineering course at our school)
German 4 Honors (not much harder than regulars, staying in it for seal of biliteracy)
Leadership Principles (taking instead of weightroom period for PE, kinda just a leadership and teambuilding thingy)


I want to go for an Engineering Degree of sorts, with maybe a side in PolySci. Would it hurt me to not do AP lit and take regular Eng 3 instead? I've taken honors English in freshsoph years, and test very well on english on the PSAT. I could do it and be successful but the homework load in addition to everything else could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I know USNA values Rigor, and I have no aversion to hard work, but realistically I don't know how realistic it is to take this heavy of a courseload with club wrestling, track, and wrestling, as well as boy scouts (likely will serve another 6 month term as SPL (highest leadership position, need to be EXTREMELY active, of a 45 scout troop).

here are past courseloads to get an idea of past workloads.

geometry
biology
APhug
English 1 H
Comp Sci principles
German 2 H


Alg 2 H
Chem
APush
English 2 H
Engineering Princ 1 H
German 3 H

To sum it up, If Im going for engineering with a possible minor in Polysci, would taking normal english (only options english 3 or AP lit junior year) hurt my chances of admission? Is my courseload without AP Lit strong enough to be competitive? Sorry if I went on, but I have given this much thought and need to make selections by friday, and don't know what to do. Thank you!
Click to expand...
I posted this a couple weeks ago for a similar question....
Looks good, but who can say..... I've seen a some lighter and some heavier but it is the whole app. I'd say look here and make sure you are close or check off as many of the academic and extracricular boxes as possible.

www.usna.edu

General Advice for Grades 9-12​

General Advice for Grades 9-12 page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Tue Dec 17 04:23:30 EST 2024.
www.usna.edu
www.usna.edu

Class Portrait​

Class Portrait page for Admissions at USNA.edu. Updated Wed Jan 01 04:25:07 EST 2025.
www.usna.edu
 
MidCakePa said:
I've yet to see evidence that USNA considers one's desired major in the admissions process. So I wouldn't use "I plan to major in engineering" as rationale for taking a lower-level English class.
Click to expand...
Major is not necessarily a consideration, but the USNA Admissions process is weighted toward STEM majors. I don't know if I've ever seen it published in any official source, but I do have recollection of BGO training (years ago) that USNA is required (by law or big Navy "guidance") to graduate X % STEM majors (I thinks X is either 60 or 70%), and Admissions gives greater weight to the Math SAT/ACT score than English /Verbal scores in order to make it more likely that they will meet that requirement. (Theory is that higher Math scores will make it more likely the Midshipman will take Engineering/Math/STEM major.

For OP - the guidance to take the most strenuous course load and do well stands. No one can tell you whether AP English will make a difference, but this is a competitive process , and if (with all other things equal) one candidate has an A in AP English, and the other has an A in regular English, the AP English would likely prevail. (Of course, the error in the analogy is "with all other things equal" -- no two Candidates will have the same package, but you get the point)
 
A lot will depend on your choices for senior year. Are AP PreCalc and Physics1 stepping stones to AP Calc BC and Physics C in 12th grade? If so, that's a good thing. If you stop there - not so good.

Will your school let you just take the AP Lit exam? In my son's HS, they took a "standard" 10th & 11th grade English class but then took the AP Lang/Comp exam at the end of 10th grade and the AP Lit/Comp exam at the end of 11th grade.
 
I can only tell you what worked for our applicant. He also had a very full plate junior and senior year. Captain of a sports team, XO of JROTC unit, other leadership positions, plus a heavy AP course load. He LOATHES writing. He can do it and do it well but would rather do advanced physics problems, etc. So once he put it all on paper he too realized he probably couldn’t do everything well. So I asked him is there anything you could alter that would give significantly more time in his schedule and still there is another way to show competency at a high level. He determined that NOT doing AP Comp & AP Lit but substituting them for Honors level English 11 & 12 would be better. He then would have to get a stellar SAT/ACT score in the English/Writing portion to compensate for the lack of AP English. For him, it worked. Granted, in every interview he was asked “why didn’t you take AP English?” He was prepared to answer and he was commended for his wisdom and his test scores backed him up. I do want to remind you though that test scores and academics make up a majority of your candidate score when they score your application. So spend your time wisely. Good luck!
 
Scoot27 said:
The USNA website says it emphasizes a strong base in english and mathematics, but how do I make my courseload manageable with sports and extracurriculars?
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Truly the million dollar question! All I can say is that the Academy is notorious for giving the midshipmen more tasks and responsibilities than could reasonably be completed at a time. (Which, it so happens, is good practice for being a naval officer). I think this is one of the reasons Admissions desires candidates who pursue the most rigorous courses along with a sport or other time-intensive extracurricular.

Burnout is nonetheless a real concern. Here’s what I would do in your position: Figure out what are your graduation requirements. Anything that isn’t either required OR enhancing your competitiveness for admissions goes to the wayside. May mean letting go of a fun or interesting elective, but you can decide whether that’s worth it.
 
Nomad@heart said:
I can only tell you what worked for our applicant. He also had a very full plate junior and senior year. Captain of a sports team, XO of JROTC unit, other leadership positions, plus a heavy AP course load. He LOATHES writing. He can do it and do it well but would rather do advanced physics problems, etc. So once he put it all on paper he too realized he probably couldn’t do everything well. So I asked him is there anything you could alter that would give significantly more time in his schedule and still there is another way to show competency at a high level. He determined that NOT doing AP Comp & AP Lit but substituting them for Honors level English 11 & 12 would be better. He then would have to get a stellar SAT/ACT score in the English/Writing portion to compensate for the lack of AP English. For him, it worked. Granted, in every interview he was asked “why didn’t you take AP English?” He was prepared to answer and he was commended for his wisdom and his test scores backed him up. I do want to remind you though that test scores and academics make up a majority of your candidate score when they score your application. So spend your time wisely. Good luck!
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This is my DS exactly!! Big physics/math kid but not a fan of writing - added fo the equation was an awful first year teacher. Opted for honors junior year but will sit for AP exam. Crushed PSAT and ACT in English so was happy with his decision to allow the extra time to be used towards his competitive sport that is about 15 hours a week outside of school plus practice for school team during season.
Half way through junior year and he hasn’t regretted his choice. Thanks for the heads up that he should be prepared to answer why not AP English next year during his interviews.
Next year will be

Differential equations
Advanced English (level above AP)
Physics C (E&M)
Independent Study research project - Stem based
 
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2030GoNavy said:
This is my DS exactly!! Big physics/math kid but not a fan of writing - added fo the equation was an awful first year teacher. Opted for honors junior year but will sit for AP exam. Crushed PSAT and ACT in English so was happy with his decision to allow the extra time to be used towards his competitive sport that is about 15 hours a week outside of school plus practice for school team during season.
Half way through junior year and he hasn’t regretted his choice. Thanks for the heads up that he should be prepared to answer why not AP English next year during his interviews.
Next year will be

Differential equations
Advanced English (level above AP)
Physics C (E&M)
Independent Study research project - Stem based
Click to expand...
What's the level above AP?
 
DanteoftheBloodAngels said:
What's the level above AP?
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We have almost no AP classes at my DS’ (private) school. It allows the teachers to teach at college level but not teach just to a test. Senior year the classes are all electives - They are more in depth and faced paced than just the material need for an AP exam. The curriculum and expectations are more in line with a second level college course rather than first year. Just like there is no AP for multivariable or differential equations.
Example - Advanced Rhetorical Theory or Advanced History of Cold War.
Just like there is no AP for multivariable or differential equations.

For most classes freshman - Junior year they offer 3 levels - regular, honors, advanced. Most of typical AP classes you would think of (except calculus AB or BC and some foreign languages) are called Advanced. They go beyond teaching to the test. Students can and do elect to take the AP exams but it isn’t required.
 
2030GoNavy said:
We have almost no AP classes at my DS’ (private) school. It allows the teachers to teach at college level but not teach just to a test. Senior year the classes are all electives - They are more in depth and faced paced than just the material need for an AP exam. The curriculum and expectations are more in line with a second level college course rather than first year. Just like there is no AP for multivariable or differential equations.
Example - Advanced Rhetorical Theory or Advanced History of Cold War.
Just like there is no AP for multivariable or differential equations.

For most classes freshman - Junior year they offer 3 levels - regular, honors, advanced. Most of typical AP classes you would think of (except calculus AB or BC and some foreign languages) are called Advanced. They go beyond teaching to the test. Students can and do elect to take the AP exams but it isn’t required.
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Sounds awesome. My AP classes don't even teach us to the test😭. My AP Physics teacher has been out all year with brain surgery and the sub doesn't know any physics. It's totally self taught .
 
A1Janitor said:
Do all schools that offer AP classes teach to a test, or just yours?
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As far as I know the curriculum is the college board curriculum not the teachers. As it was explained to us there is very little discretion in what they teach. This was his experience for BC Calc last year. It followed the exam prep all year. This is why the school got rid of them. Not uncommon in most of the private schools where we live.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Major is not necessarily a consideration, but the USNA Admissions process is weighted toward STEM majors. I don't know if I've ever seen it published in any official source, but I do have recollection of BGO training (years ago) that USNA is required (by law or big Navy "guidance") to graduate X % STEM majors (I thinks X is either 60 or 70%), and Admissions gives greater weight to the Math SAT/ACT score than English /Verbal scores in order to make it more likely that they will meet that requirement. (Theory is that higher Math scores will make it more likely the Midshipman will take Engineering/Math/STEM major.

For OP - the guidance to take the most strenuous course load and do well stands. No one can tell you whether AP English will make a difference, but this is a competitive process , and if (with all other things equal) one candidate has an A in AP English, and the other has an A in regular English, the AP English would likely prevail. (Of course, the error in the analogy is "with all other things equal" -- no two Candidates will have the same package, but you get the point)
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Per my on-site BGO training and my USNA provided guidance, as of 18 months ago (my training time), Congress mandates 65% of all graduates major in an Engineering or Math/Science program.
 
A1Janitor said:
Do all schools that offer AP classes teach to a test, or just yours?
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2 important things to remember
Colleges - including service academies care about the rigor within your school. They don’t care what it is called. They care you took the hardest course available to you at your school. This is why they review your school profile when looking at your transcript.

The other is that an AP score is irrelevant to admissions. It is more relevant to placement at a typical college. There are exceptions to that but that is the general rule.
 
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A1Janitor said:
Do all schools that offer AP classes teach to a test, or just yours?
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It's not really the intention of AP classes to have teachers teach to the AP Exam, but it kind of ends up happening because the teachers just want more kids to pass and actually get credit.

It's not the intention, but teaching to the exam is sort of a byproduct of the system. Which is a bad one, but I'm not going to get into why I don't like Collegeboard.
 
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