Dealing With SA Regret

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runner99

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I see it a lot in the posts on this site, and I can say that I have been there myself... "I regret not going to a service academy".

I spent most of high school a good application. I about as close to an appointment as you can get, the letter was sitting on the liaison officer's desk in Highland Falls. All I had to do was retake the CFA with the videos of the pushups, but I hurt my arm playing hockey the week before and couldn't do the proper form. I ended up being rejected senior year of high school. I went to community college, ran cross country, started engineering, and did AROTC. I literally had the letter sitting on the desk again, but my cadre pushed off the CFA until the last minute, then wouldn't let me take it because they wanted me to stay. I got a three year scholarship the next week. Although it's so hard to let go of something you wanted so bad, I have sought out the good in it, such as internships, relationships, independence, and off-campus living. However, I receive comments constantly from others that are trying to make me regret it. My cadre told me if I wanted the chance to get the combat arms branch I want, I should have went to USMA. My parents have told me almost weekly for 2 years now that if I just would have went to USMA, we all wouldn't be struggling to pay for school, I would have better professors, I would have a better name on my degree, and I wouldn't be hassled like I am in ROTC (I end up spending hours a day driving back and forth for little tasks, host-school students take priority on everything from leadership to camps, and etc.). I am going to be a senior and have accepted that I have chosen a different route and tried embracing the good things about it. It's the people around me that seem to think I let myself down. Has anyone had a similar experience? It's never too late to apply if I ever gave in to their thinking. How much would it actually make things better if I am 3 semesters away from graduating? (The main reason I never applied a 3rd time is that I didn't want to start over freshman classes).
 
I had a similair conversation with my son this entire year. His friends are at USMA and Annapolis. One cadet basically took his spot per our congressmen. That being said, myself (his father) had a harder time accepting him not attending an SA or a prep school for an SA. He lives with his choice very easily - I want a college experience and that is his first and foremost want. His friends from the SA's Live Video and complain about the hardship, the 'grind' and the fact that they simply are dealing with it. One of his friends who is a very good athlete was cut from his team and then he just focused on his grades. The fact that you are going Combat Arms out of the USMA is not a guarantee either. Don't get wrapped around the axle on this. If you REALLY want, and if you still are under the age, you could always apply and start over for an SA. My son thought seriously about this and finally said 'No' I want to be at Cal Poly and have a good college experience. I hope you focus on the good and enjoy your time left. In the end, this is all going to come together and you'll be in a good spot!
 
I am a father too, and my DS is waiting to hear from one final SA before making his decision on what he will do after graduation. I have told him that no matter what he chooses, there will be times when he will think he made the wrong call. Call it buyer's remorse or "the grass is always greener" phenomenon, but everyone experiences it in life. The reality is that you don't have it as bad as some people are trying to convince you that you do, and others do not have it as great as you might imagine. There are trials and triumphs in all paths. My advice to you (regardless of where you decided to go from here) is to not let regret interfere with all the positives that are there around you, otherwise, you will later regret letting this regret get to you. When people ask me about my military career and my profession in order to get advice on how to get to the same place I am, I always tell them there is no one path and there is no one magic formula. Take advantage of the opportunities in your current situation and do not let someone else's "opinion" or alleged "knowledge" of what you can and cannot do make you give up before trying.
 
borrowed from a social media post of a Citadel Cadet

Two years ago today I received a nomination to the United States Naval Academy about one month later I would receive a nomination to the United States Military Academy. Two months after that I would receive letters of denial first from West Point and then from Navy. One stressful month later I received a full NROTC Scholarship for The Citadel.

Today I can sit here in South Carolina and can't help but be thankful for all the things I didn't get.

Watts Barracks, Charleston South Carolina, December 9, 2019

Corporal SCCC 2N2
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runner99 said:
I see it a lot in the posts on this site, and I can say that I have been there myself... "I regret not going to a service academy".

I spent most of high school a good application. I about as close to an appointment as you can get, the letter was sitting on the liaison officer's desk in Highland Falls. All I had to do was retake the CFA with the videos of the pushups, but I hurt my arm playing hockey the week before and couldn't do the proper form. I ended up being rejected senior year of high school. I went to community college, ran cross country, started engineering, and did AROTC. I literally had the letter sitting on the desk again, but my cadre pushed off the CFA until the last minute, then wouldn't let me take it because they wanted me to stay. I got a three year scholarship the next week. Although it's so hard to let go of something you wanted so bad, I have sought out the good in it, such as internships, relationships, independence, and off-campus living. However, I receive comments constantly from others that are trying to make me regret it. My cadre told me if I wanted the chance to get the combat arms branch I want, I should have went to USMA. My parents have told me almost weekly for 2 years now that if I just would have went to USMA, we all wouldn't be struggling to pay for school, I would have better professors, I would have a better name on my degree, and I wouldn't be hassled like I am in ROTC (I end up spending hours a day driving back and forth for little tasks, host-school students take priority on everything from leadership to camps, and etc.). I am going to be a senior and have accepted that I have chosen a different route and tried embracing the good things about it. It's the people around me that seem to think I let myself down. Has anyone had a similar experience? It's never too late to apply if I ever gave in to their thinking. How much would it actually make things better if I am 3 semesters away from graduating? (The main reason I never applied a 3rd time is that I didn't want to start over freshman classes).
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It seems to me that USMA wasn't on the table. You didn't turn down USMA it wasn't in the cards due to your circumstances. Don't be hard on yourself, be proud that you have made it through this far.
 
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IowaNative said:
I have told him that no matter what he chooses, there will be times when he will think he made the wrong call. Call it buyer's remorse or "the grass is always greener" phenomenon, but everyone experiences it in life.
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I have no data to back it up, but I’m willing to bet no college student experiences greater “buyer’s regret” than an SA cadet/midshipman. On any given day....

As they say, SAs are a great place to be from, but not a great place to be at.
 
I would take a moment and have a talk with the man in the mirror about this and try to tune out other's expectations - a key to failure is trying to please everyone. See if you can make peace with your path -with yourself. I would recommend you do some imaginary time machine discussions. Imagine yourself in 3.5 years - one path - already 2 years into your officer role, having finished college on a scholarship, and deployed /college degree in hand or, pretty much right where you are with another year of school ahead or so but going to be an academy grad. Is the room and board cost an issue? Can you serve as an RA? with the world as it is they may end up having openings next year.

IDK. If you feel you want it then go for it but be a bulldog/ advocate for yourself and get the apps tackled long before any deadline. Sounds like you're on-track to commission out of ROTC in 3 semesters and start your military career. Do you plan to be in the military for life? If so to me that's an SLIGHT argument for the academy. Otherwise, seems like a lot of time and a lot of pain to get very close to where you're already on a path to get to sooner. If you want to be from an academy, you are not too young or old to do so. Expectations are hard but in the end you have to live with and be at peace with yourself. My DS didn't apply to the SAs - knew enough about what a grind it is and wanted to enjoy college via rotc. But you be you, take the month ahead and try to decide, and hold your head up high. I know we are all taught to be conscientious of others, but in this case start by advocating for yourself and I think the rest will sort out. Good luck to you and thank you for your serving, whatever path you choose.

Good luck to you.
 
Just re-read your post, and it may be that the SA is a dream of someone else's, but not you? If that's the case, then I don't recommend scrapping your ROTC progress to start over at a SA. You'll be serving side by side with Academy grads. perhaps you'll have eventually have folks with a shiny new academy ring reporting to you. It's hard to graduate college with a degree and ROTC at once. If you want an SA experience, go for it. If you don't then, well, imaging going through that awful experience for 4 years for someone else? Not worth it IMO. Not sure that will help but willing to share in case it does.
 
Comes down to this: What’s your ultimate goal? Is it to become a commissioned officer or to attend USMA?

If it’s the former, then keep moving forward and don’t look back or to the side. You’re only three semesters from pinning on butter bars, placing 2LT in front of your name, and leading a platoon.

If it’s the latter, then head in the direction of West Point. And know that, over the eight semester you’re there, any number of things can keep you from ever commissioning, e.g. academic performance, illness, injury. I certainly hope none of those things happens to you. But since attending USMA is your ultimate goal — not commissioning — then you should be OK.

Right? Hopefully that helps focus your decision process.
 
I seriously dont understand this problem. I get being upset about not getting your first choice or in this case not getting into an academy. I would also be upset if the Rotc screwed me over so that I had to stay. But this constant whinning (not directed at you specifically and bad choice of words but cant think of a better one) year after year about being of not gettting in and not being happy with Rotc because it somehow not the same drives me crazy. Its like Bill Gates being upset about not graduating from Harvard even though he created Microsoft. I have to imagine there are benefits from graduating West Point, but nothing is guaranteed and plenty of people coming from Rotc are just as succesful as their acadamy brothers. As been said over and over again, the WP grad will be a 2nd Lt. and a Rotc grad will be a 2nd Lt. Assuming a WP diploma gets more doors opened for you, in the end, your sucess will be dependent on how you perform. I am sure that are great professors at WP as well as crappy ones. I am sure there are great professors at your civilian college and I know there are crappy ones also. Its what you make of it. Stop caring what everyone else says. Most of them arent in your shoes, will never be in your shoes and have no idea how they would react if they were in your shoes.. As for money, you said you got a 3 year scholarship. While i understand you had to pay for year 1 and the scholarship doesnt pay for everything, be grateful you got it in the first place. Most cadets in the Rotc programs dont get anything. The irony of this that there are plenty of people who quit the academies because they cant deal with it. There is also a large group of who dont like it but thinks its worthwhile so they stay. They probably arent any happier than you seem to be but put up with for the goal of a diploma and Butter Bars. Which ironically enough is what you get when you graduate college and finish rotc. Sorry if this sounds harsh and isnt specifically direct at you but oh the so many people who cant go on with their life because they didnt get into an academy but got into Rotc
 
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As time goes by, you’ll probably learn to accept and maybe even appreciate the fact that you didn’t attend West Point. Things like this can be a blessing in disguise. I was never picked up for the AF academy, went thru AFROTC, commissioned into a job I’m not super happy with, and now I’m looking at separating from the Air Force in just over a year. I try to look at it this way: had I gone to the AF academy, I might have still ended up in this same job, still been unhappy, and I would have owed the Air Force five (5), not four years of active duty time. So in retrospect, I think I dodged a little bit of a bullet, or at least a smaller bullet than I was hit with, and I’m very glad I didn’t attend the academy. I’m not saying everything happens for a reason, but the point is that you never know what’s going to happen and how something may (or may not) work out for the better. And, as others have said, you were never even offered an appointment to West Point, so it was pretty much out of your hands.
 
MidCakePa said:
I have no data to back it up, but I’m willing to bet no college student experiences greater “buyer’s regret” than an SA cadet/midshipman. On any given day....

As they say, SAs are a great place to be from, but not a great place to be at.
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My DS Mid and I were talking about how much he is enjoying their current “normal”....sleeping in (after accountability) when his classes allow. Wearing scrubs. Gaming. Having a “life” again!! I asked him if he thought there will be some who won’t return....he said he suspects there will be some defectors. He is a youngster, signs his 2 for 7 next fall. I wouldn’t be surprised if some decide this really is “the good life”. It will be interesting to see! Going back to a SA grind after 2, maybe 3 months of freedom!!
 
My son is holding an appointment to USAFA but just got into Duke University. Our family is entirely unsure what to do next. The more we learn about the required years of service after the pilot years, the more concerned we are that his education may take a pause as he lingers in the waiting zone for pilot slots, does the pilot training, etc. We are confused how he can possibly also get his masters while also pursuing pilot training. USAFA is known for their engineering training, but so is Duke at their Pratt School of Engineering. Can anyone help? The “not knowing” where you will be after graduation has our family a little nervous. I had been told that USAFA was good about giving cadets a choice or at least a request, but the parents forum suggests otherwise. We know that our son could apply for Duke later perhaps for a masters. But USAFA is a one time opportunity, but with the payback of years, one is in his 40s by the time he has many choices in life. Anyone?
 
Lovemykids said:
My son is holding an appointment to USAFA but just got into Duke University. Our family is entirely unsure what to do next. The more we learn about the required years of service after the pilot years, the more concerned we are that his education may take a pause as he lingers in the waiting zone for pilot slots, does the pilot training, etc. We are confused how he can possibly also get his masters while also pursuing pilot training. USAFA is known for their engineering training, but so is Duke at their Pratt School of Engineering. Can anyone help? The “not knowing” where you will be after graduation has our family a little nervous. I had been told that USAFA was good about giving cadets a choice or at least a request, but the parents forum suggests otherwise. We know that our son could apply for Duke later perhaps for a masters. But USAFA is a one time opportunity, but with the payback of years, one is in his 40s by the time he has many choices in life. Anyone?
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“Our family”

You all got into Duke ? :)

If you son is considering being a (warrior) pilot in the USAF great. If he is having second thoughts that is normal.

If it’s the parents who are the most worried that is very very normal. It’s easy to talk about service to country when it’s not actually your child.

What does your son want to do?
 
Lovemykids said:
My son is holding an appointment to USAFA but just got into Duke University. Our family is entirely unsure what to do next. The more we learn about the required years of service after the pilot years, the more concerned we are that his education may take a pause as he lingers in the waiting zone for pilot slots, does the pilot training, etc. We are confused how he can possibly also get his masters while also pursuing pilot training. USAFA is known for their engineering training, but so is Duke at their Pratt School of Engineering. Can anyone help? The “not knowing” where you will be after graduation has our family a little nervous. I had been told that USAFA was good about giving cadets a choice or at least a request, but the parents forum suggests otherwise. We know that our son could apply for Duke later perhaps for a masters. But USAFA is a one time opportunity, but with the payback of years, one is in his 40s by the time he has many choices in life. Anyone?
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Some things to consider:
  • Your son might not even receive a pilot spot due to reasons beyond his control (medical, injury etc.).
  • If your son does not serve as a pilot, his service payback would be only five years, making him about 26 after five and dive.
  • If your son is primarily focused on becoming an engineer and military service is strictly an aside (or price of admission), then he should pursue Duke. Otherwise, he will likely be miserable for the next nine years.
Good luck to your son on his decision (It is his, not yours). He has a wealth of options!
 
My son will be 27 when he meets his obligation.

If he doesn’t stay in, he will have many tremendous life choices at 27.

If he stays, his choices in life in his 40s is what he wants to do - money is no longer sn issue.
 
Lovemykids said:
My son is holding an appointment to USAFA but just got into Duke University. Our family is entirely unsure what to do next. The more we learn about the required years of service after the pilot years, the more concerned we are that his education may take a pause as he lingers in the waiting zone for pilot slots, does the pilot training, etc. We are confused how he can possibly also get his masters while also pursuing pilot training. USAFA is known for their engineering training, but so is Duke at their Pratt School of Engineering. Can anyone help? The “not knowing” where you will be after graduation has our family a little nervous. I had been told that USAFA was good about giving cadets a choice or at least a request, but the parents forum suggests otherwise. We know that our son could apply for Duke later perhaps for a masters. But USAFA is a one time opportunity, but with the payback of years, one is in his 40s by the time he has many choices in life. Anyone?
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One thing I don't see mentioned is whether AFROTC is in your son's plans if he attends Duke. This is posted in the ROTC forum, so I would think so, but maybe not. If AFROTC is in his plans at duke, does he have an AFROTC scholarship in hand? The service obligation for pilot is the same through ROTC or a service academy. Either route your son will receive an excellent, well respected education. Going straight into a Master's program from either route is probably not a realistic option from USAFA or AFROTC, particularly if he does obtain a pilot slot. But a Master's should be obtainable wile on active duty through a number of paths, either on his own time and dime or using USAF time or funds. Using USAF time or funds will require additional service obligation.

If it is a choice between USAFA and Duke with AFROTC, then the choice really comes down to fit. Location, school size, 24/7 military life vs primarily a student with AFROTC commitments, etc. If it's USAFA or Duke without USAF, then your son needs to weigh his priorities of serving as an Air Force officer or going right to grad school and how that will be paid for.
 
Lovemykids said:
My son is holding an appointment to USAFA but just got into Duke University. Our family is entirely unsure what to do next. The more we learn about the required years of service after the pilot years, the more concerned we are that his education may take a pause as he lingers in the waiting zone for pilot slots, does the pilot training, etc. We are confused how he can possibly also get his masters while also pursuing pilot training. USAFA is known for their engineering training, but so is Duke at their Pratt School of Engineering. Can anyone help? The “not knowing” where you will be after graduation has our family a little nervous. I had been told that USAFA was good about giving cadets a choice or at least a request, but the parents forum suggests otherwise. We know that our son could apply for Duke later perhaps for a masters. But USAFA is a one time opportunity, but with the payback of years, one is in his 40s by the time he has many choices in life. Anyone?
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Echo what’s already been mentioned. Your son really should be driving this decision 100 pct. Of course, as parents, we care. But this is his time to decide. Mom advice is you don’t want him to be able to put any of his unhappiness on you.

These thoughts you are presenting are thing he needs to decide. He has to be ok with serving, to attend a SA. THATS the primary force of the institution. Not the prestige or glam of the place. He has to want to be a Military Officer. If he does, the rest will take care of itself.

I have a ‘22 who is putting in long hours on a ship. Paid well. And the envy of his non military friend group for doing really cool stuff vs a 9-5 desk job.

I have a National Guard member who enjoys doing his cool stuff once a month, but had to find a civilian job on his own after graduation. Is paid considerably less in salary and compensation in his 9-5 job he had t settle for. And a 100pct non military, who is still struggling to find her ‘dream job’. And is grinding to make her way. Also one to yet graduate usna. Also hoping to pilot select.

Both of my SA kiddos are open to the journey. And are enjoying themselves immensely. 5 yrs or career, yet TBD.

I am so relieved, as a parent, to NOT be making these decisions for them. And trust that they will find their way, no matter.

BTW….this is an ROTC thread, so you may want to check out USAFA forum for more addition reading/discussion.
 
There are opportunities to get a masters or even doctorate directly out of USAFA even with a pilot slot. Several of son’s friends did this, and the AF holds their pilot slot until they finish their degree. There are opportunities through AFIT and many other well-known colleges for this.
My oldest son finished his AD pilot commitment at 32 (so not in his 40s) and now flies an Airbus out of Miami while also flying an F-16 in the Reserves. He got his masters on his own while on AD.
I also agree with those above that this decision needs to be his alone. Parents are a great resource and discussion partner, but unless he is committed to the choice it wont matter what parents think.

Stealth_81
 
Stealth_81 said:
There are opportunities to get a masters or even doctorate directly out of USAFA even with a pilot slot. Several of son’s friends did this, and the AF holds their pilot slot until they finish their degree. There are opportunities through AFIT and many other well-known colleges for this.
My oldest son finished his AD pilot commitment at 32 (so not in his 40s) and now flies an Airbus out of Miami while also flying an F-16 in the Reserves. He got his masters on his own while on AD.
I also agree with those above that this decision needs to be his alone. Parents are a great resource and discussion partner, but unless he is committed to the choice it wont matter what parents think.

Stealth_81
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My son will be in cuba for his first couple of years. We talked about how it wasn’t the best place to be. Awhile ago I told him he should look to get his masters on line while there. He will have the time.

Is that allowed?
 
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