Dipping (USMA and Active Duty)

Chockstock said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure your troops will be more concerned with how fast you run and if you're tactical or not
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Except that the two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can run fast and be tactical just as easily without chewing. The same logic could be applied to other unhealthy habits, like drugs or alcohol abuse.
 
Its funny that I literally just came back from a field problem tonight during which I was making friendly fun of all the smokers and dippers in my platoon. They know they're doing something I think is idiotic because of the health impacts, but its their personal choice. No one has looked down on me for not wanting to participate.
 
When I was with my DD at an admissions visit (during our tour) I was startled to see cadets smoking in between classes. Looked like there was a designated place to do so. Seemed odd to me (and my DD, as well)
 
Peer pressure is always alive and well at the academies. This shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone. These are places that teach you to conform to a fault. The on the record stuff everyone has to abide by. The off the record stuff (smoking, drinking, dipping) is completely up to the individual. Everyone has to decide their own character when presented with these options.
 
Why don't you try it and make your own decision. My guess is you won't like it and end of the story. All replies sound like against dipping and folks that doesn't dip at all. So I like to give you an occasional dipper's perspective. Like anything you do, it's your decision. I never dipped before the academy, didn't really dipped until Ranger school, most during field time. I am not probably not the norm as at times I have stopped dipping for several months, use a can, then stop several months again. Now, maybe less than 6 cans a year.

Soldiers won't care if you dip or not. However, you might get from a soldier that dips something like he/she has something in common or LT is not stuck up as I think he was.
 
MemberLG said:
Why don't you try it and make your own decision. My guess is you won't like it and end of the story. All replies sound like against dipping and folks that doesn't dip at all. So I like to give you an occasional dipper's perspective. Like anything you do, it's your decision. I never dipped before the academy, didn't really dipped until Ranger school, most during field time. I am not probably not the norm as at times I have stopped dipping for several months, use a can, then stop several months again. Now, maybe less than 6 cans a year.

Soldiers won't care if you dip or not. However, you might get from a soldier that dips something like he/she has something in common or LT is not stuck up as I think he was.
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The problem with the "just try it" approach is that nicotine is as addictive, or perhaps even more addictive, than opiates like heroin, morphine, or hydrocodone. For some people, one "hit" is enough to stimulate enough of a response in the brain that the brain then directs the person to seek that heroin hit or that tobacco fix. There seems to be a small population that does not become addicted to nicotine or heroin, but that population is small and there's no way to tell where you land until you're on the other side of trying it.

Tobacco use has a staggering cost in lives, health, and money - far more than alcohol, far more than prescription drug abuse. There aren't any benefits to its use - none. People who could be persuaded to endanger their health, their lifespan, and their budget, merely to "fit in" with subordinates, aren't choosing effective ways to lead their people.
 
Dipping wasn't huge at USNA but it was very popular in the USMC. Nearly 75% of the guys has huge dips in their mouth and would stand to give an Op Order or Brief and stop every 30 seconds to spit. Unprofessional and gross. And speaking as a woman, unattractive. I have watched young Marines face horrible dental disease in their 20s because of their habit. And your Soldiers could care less if you dip. If someone tells you that they won't respect you unless you dip, slap them upside the head and tell them OGs think that is ridiculous.

Now that I am out of the USMC let me give a few reasons why dipping is dumb... it's expensive, not only in habit but in health insurance and health costs. Those at my company pay an extra $150/month for health insurance for nicotine use. Even with the best dental insurance dental work outside the military is very expensive. Oh, yeah most work places are tobacco free. When I say most, I say 90% or more are tobacco free campuses. You get caught smoking or dipping on my campus you are fired. You can't walk around with a spitter in the civilian work force. I have had many friends enter law enforcement. Some departments won't even hire tobacco users. Even though you are early in your career, at some point you will leave military service and face these items. It's better to not start.
 
MemberLG said:
Why don't you try it and make your own decision. My guess is you won't like it and end of the story. All replies sound like against dipping and folks that doesn't dip at all. So I like to give you an occasional dipper's perspective. Like anything you do, it's your decision. I never dipped before the academy, didn't really dipped until Ranger school, most during field time. I am not probably not the norm as at times I have stopped dipping for several months, use a can, then stop several months again. Now, maybe less than 6 cans a year.

Soldiers won't care if you dip or not. However, you might get from a soldier that dips something like he/she has something in common or LT is not stuck up as I think he was.
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When I was a young boy, a couple older kids, who had stolen some chewing tobacco, gave me some and heavy handedly encouraged me to try it. So, being slightly more afraid of what would happen if I didn't try than if i did, I grabbed a wad, put it in my mouth as instructed, thus commencing my single chew life experience. My instructors were only barely less novice than I was, and their portion advice was likely about five times the amount recommended for anyone other than a full fledged cowboy, or old school minor league baseball player, which resulted in me gulping tobacco saliva. It took seconds before I got dizzy, sweaty, and sicker than a dog. I can feel it again as I am typing. Lol.

I get how a dumb kid tries chew, or cigarettes. I have never understood how an intelligent secure adult would.

There has never been a person in history who tried chewing tobacco or cigarettes for the first time and honestly thought, " boy, this is really good". It ain't like trying an eclair for the first time. And you know when you try it that it has horrendous health implications, is expensive, very addicting, dirty, stinky, and makes non smokers think you are stupid.
 
"Youth is wasted on the young, and wisdom is wasted on the old."

The above quote appears to have partial attributions to George Bernard Shaw (youth), and modern variants (wisdom).
 
brovol said:
I get how a dumb kid tries chew, or cigarettes. I have never understood how an intelligent secure adult would.
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Because we are not machines.

Why would intelligent secure adults not save for retirement?
Why would intelligent secure adults not exercise regularly?
Why would intelligent secure adults spend hundreds to watch a professional sports game instead of donating that money to a charity?
Why would intelligent secure adults buy a luxury sedan?
Why do some intelligent secure adults get arrested for DUI/DWI?
How can some intelligent secure adult vote for any incumbent politicians?
 
MemberLG said:
brovol said:
I get how a dumb kid tries chew, or cigarettes. I have never understood how an intelligent secure adult would.
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Because we are not machines.

Why would intelligent secure adults not save for retirement?
Why would intelligent secure adults not exercise regularly?
Why would intelligent secure adults spend hundreds to watch a professional sports game instead of donating that money to a charity?
Why would intelligent secure adults buy a luxury sedan?
Why do some intelligent secure adults get arrested for DUI/DWI?
How can some intelligent secure adult vote for any incumbent politicians?
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Because your examples have at least the potential to give some benefit or make you feel good for even a moment. You could have added, why do some adults try Cocaine, and I would respond because they think they will enjoy the high that they are supposed to get. With tobacco, it is, at best, an acquired taste, which doesn't provide that "fix" until after the person has been addicted. So why ever start? It's not just a bad choice, like most of your examples; but rather is a choice that you know going in is all bad all the time, and just gets worse with time.

A better analogy for you would have been, why do people deliberately stab themselves in the eye with a sharp knife? The response would be, "they don't". That should be the same response for why people start smoking or chewing, but it isn't. See what I'm saying?
 
Now cigars....lol...never went to a field problem or deployment without!

And people buy luxury cars and go to sporting events...cause they like 'em. And I would bet they also contribute to charitable organizations.. :)
 
brovol said:
A better analogy for you would have been, why do people deliberately stab themselves in the eye with a sharp knife? The response would be, "they don't". That should be the same response for why people start smoking or chewing, but it isn't. See what I'm saying?
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Yes, what you are saying is your standard is the standard everyone should follow. I don't diagree that dipping is stupid, bad, and etc, but we are allow to make our own decisions. I for personally believe is that any addiction is the individual's responsibility. The society is becoming one of regardless what happens "its not my fault." I also don't like selective outrage based on personal bias.
 
MemberLG said:
brovol said:
A better analogy for you would have been, why do people deliberately stab themselves in the eye with a sharp knife? The response would be, "they don't". That should be the same response for why people start smoking or chewing, but it isn't. See what I'm saying?
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Yes, what you are saying is your standard is the standard everyone should follow. I don't diagree that dipping is stupid, bad, and etc, but we are allow to make our own decisions. I for personally believe is that any addiction is the individual's responsibility. The society is becoming one of regardless what happens "its not my fault." I also don't like selective outrage based on personal bias.
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I'm not talking about standards of anyone or for anyone. I am making a point based on logic and common sense. Not expressing an opinion, or what my standards are. I can say that I eat donuts when people bring them into the office, and I know for certain that it is bad and unhealthy to eat those donuts. I would still conclude that it is a poor choice, even as I am enjoying that apple fritter, and I am absolutely correct in that assessment. Of course we all make our own choices, and should be responsible for the consequences.
 
OP, don't sweat it.

I'm a combat arms officer (FA), and I have dipped consistently for years. My platoon sergeant dipped, my 1SG dips, my last commander dipped, my battalion commander, XO, and CSM dip. Most of my soldiers dip. But nobody talks about it or cares, really. And a good portion of my Soldiers never knew I dipped for months. At a very basic level, just understand Soldiers don't really care about you, except that you care about them. You're not going to drink with them so it doesn't really matter to them if you drink. Me dipping is a personal decision of mine that started long before I led Soldiers and affects my leadership style in no way, shape, or form. Just be you and you'll be fine.

And NavyHoops, I do find it funny how you'll see meetings at Battalion where everyone shows up with pen, paper, and a spit bottle. Considering how regulated we are in everything else we do. The "rules" on when it's appropriate always seem to fluctuate with commanders
 
-Bull- said:
OP, don't sweat it.

I'm a combat arms officer (FA), and I have dipped consistently for years. My platoon sergeant dipped, my 1SG dips, my last commander dipped, my battalion commander, XO, and CSM dip. Most of my soldiers dip. But nobody talks about it or cares, really. And a good portion of my Soldiers never knew I dipped for months. At a very basic level, just understand Soldiers don't really care about you, except that you care about them. You're not going to drink with them so it doesn't really matter to them if you drink. Me dipping is a personal decision of mine that started long before I led Soldiers and affects my leadership style in no way, shape, or form. Just be you and you'll be fine.

And NavyHoops, I do find it funny how you'll see meetings at Battalion where everyone shows up with pen, paper, and a spit bottle. Considering how regulated we are in everything else we do. The "rules" on when it's appropriate always seem to fluctuate with commanders
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As a brand new 2LT at JRTC, I've had to run convoys through "dangerous" areas for my BC to deliver his cans of prized Copenhagen when he ran out. Since we've had many an informal LPD after asking for a dip. I instantly became best friends with the head civilian at my post's Range Control after offering him a pinch when he noticed the circular bulge in my shoulder pocket, and ever since running ranges has been an absolute blast.

So, in a very exclusive military way (considering NavyHoops' comment on the different perspectives in the civilian world), such a habit can help with informal networking and just something to do with your soldiers and peers. I will also concur that it is, in my opinion, enjoyable. As someone who has always constantly smacked on gum, I enjoy the oral fix from it. Occasionally spitting is less annoying to many of my friends and family than constantly smacking on gum.

I also grew up in the deep South in a rural area. Everyone dips so it wasn't this new foreign thing to me. Yes, even women for those that assume this is an exclusively male demographic.

That being said, it CAN mess your teeth up. Brush them more if you decide to start. And please use tiny pinches first.
 
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