Disenrolled from ROTC, handed enormous bill.

My DS attended Advsanced Camp this summer as well. From my understanding graduation from Advanced Camp is required to commission. From what DS said those that didn't pass were put back into the next regiment to try again. Seems should would have gone tnrothr twice which would have given her probably 4 chances to pass land nav. My son and to do the night land nav a 2nd time and passed, so they get more than one shot.

To me it seems there is more to the story than the info provided. That said, they all know up front that they could owe this money if they aren't able to fulfill the contract.
 
If you can't pass land after four tries then you probably won't be a good officer. That being said, Advanced Camp isn't meant to fail cadets. The pass rate is very high.
 
She was injured first time, she did not pass the retries unfortunately. Her negative reports were apparently because she had bad peer evaluations. Board ruled that if she can't do land nav after four tries then she may not be a good soldier. Sucks to see someone make it that far just to get disenrolled for this.
 
One has to accept responsibility for one's failings. We all have them and they preclude us from doing certain things. My phone skills suck, so no job answering phones for me.
 
I agree with kinnem, at a certain point one must accept their own failings. I am truly sorry for her, and not trying to be harsh, but if after 4 tries and poor peer reviews (not including higher ranking reviews) it is probably best that all around they hand her the bill, instead of the enlistment option.
~ FWIW, just my opinion, I think the forced enlistment is bad, bad, bad. It does no good from a morale aspect.

Gojira's DS was hit with a $143K bill, 6 weeks prior to his commissioning. Yep...that is when they dis-enrolled him due to the fact that he was 6lbs overweight. They hired a military attorney to fight the dis-enrollment. They lost. The attorney did, however, make a deal that he would repay the 143K over 10 yrs at a certain interest rate.

Point being, tell your friend that it may be worth a few hundred dollars to hire a military attorney to negotiate the repayment. Gojira's DS was originally told he had to repay the entire sum within 48 months. The attorney was the person that had it extended to 120 months.
 
Pima said:
I agree with kinnem, at a certain point one must accept their own failings. I am truly sorry for her, and not trying to be harsh, but if after 4 tries and poor peer reviews (not including higher ranking reviews) it is probably best that all around they hand her the bill, instead of the enlistment option.
~ FWIW, just my opinion, I think the forced enlistment is bad, bad, bad. It does no good from a morale aspect.

Gojira's DS was hit with a $143K bill, 6 weeks prior to his commissioning. Yep...that is when they dis-enrolled him due to the fact that he was 6lbs overweight. They hired a military attorney to fight the dis-enrollment. They lost. The attorney did, however, make a deal that he would repay the 143K over 10 yrs at a certain interest rate.

Point being, tell your friend that it may be worth a few hundred dollars to hire a military attorney to negotiate the repayment. Gojira's DS was originally told he had to repay the entire sum within 48 months. The attorney was the person that had it extended to 120 months.
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Or what? What would happen if his son couldnt afford to pay it over four years. Put in him in debtor prison. Take away assets he doesnt have. It is in the governments best interest to make a deal where the person can afford to pay it back
 
Humey said:
Or what? What would happen if his son couldnt afford to pay it over four years. Put in him in debtor prison. Take away assets he doesnt have. It is in the governments best interest to make a deal where the person can afford to pay it back
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Humey, You're a CPA, what are the most onerous things the IRS can do? Isn't the worst they can do is garnish the wages and place a lien on assets? (aside from forced enlistment).
 
AROTC-dad said:
Humey said:
Or what? What would happen if his son couldnt afford to pay it over four years. Put in him in debtor prison. Take away assets he doesnt have. It is in the governments best interest to make a deal where the person can afford to pay it back
Click to expand...

Humey, You're a CPA, what are the most onerous things the IRS can do? Isn't the worst they can do is garnish the wages and place a lien on assets? (aside from forced enlistment).
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exactly, but garnishments have limits and my guess is that the son doesnt have lots of assets. When you got no money and no assets, even the IRS cant do much either.
 
kinnem said:
One has to accept responsibility for one's failings. We all have them and they preclude us from doing certain things. My phone skills suck, so no job answering phones for me.
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Oh sure, I know how that works. When I married my bride 25 years ago, I did the laundry once and everything came out pink.
I never had to do laundry again! ;)
 
Worked for me too. Also shrunk some expensive sweaters. Now I only get to fold and put away!
 
So are you saying if you don't get a job you can default on your FAFSA loan?

Gojira by the way is a woman. Her DS worked with NROTC and extended the repayment to 10 yrs, plus interest, just like a Stafford loan.
 
Pima said:
So are you saying if you don't get a job you can default on your FAFSA loan?

Gojira by the way is a woman. Her DS worked with NROTC and extended the repayment to 10 yrs, plus interest, just like a Stafford loan.
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no sure who you are asking but if you dont have a job and cant repay, they will work on helping you. They have different programs that help those who cant afford to pay. The loan wont ever go away, but again, if you dont have income and you dont have assets, their isnt much they can do. I am not writing this as a way to get away from paying your debts. Far from it, i believe one should always pay their debt not only on time but quicker then required. My son's FAFSA loans which he took every year will be paid off in 3 years based on what he is paying every month and that is way quicker than the required time.
 
Federal student loans are put on deferral if income is low enough, and discharged on death.

I'll be handling the latter for a relative who was just diagnosed last month with terminal cancer, now on Hospice.
 
ncbill said:
Federal student loans are put on deferral if income is low enough, and discharged on death.

I'll be handling the latter for a relative who was just diagnosed last month with terminal cancer, now on Hospice.
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This is another reason to NOT refinance Federal student loans through a private lender. You lose that discharge on death aspect and the debt gets passed to the estate or worse yet, to the spouse in a community property state.
 
AROTC-dad said:
Humey, You're a CPA, what are the most onerous things the IRS can do? Isn't the worst they can do is garnish the wages and place a lien on assets? (aside from forced enlistment).
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The IRS can, and does, seize assets & sell them at public auction to resolve unpaid tax obligations. Many a personal residence has been auctioned off to pay taxes. Often the auction take place in front of the home itself. It is humiliating for the delinquent taxpayer, but it happens. IRS can seize your bank account balances (repeatedly, if necessary), leaving you with no money to pay bills. IRS can levy (seize) funds in an IRA, 401k plans, money market, etc., wiping out your retirement savings. If you're self-employed, your accounts receivables can be attached, leaving you with no income. If you get payments/income through credit/debit cards, IRS can levy the merchant processor & you get no income. IRS can show up at your home or place of business accompanied by a tow truck(s), handing you paperwork to seize your vehicle(s). Artwork, jewelry, cash, etc? All can seized to satisfy tax debts. Life insurance with cash loan value can be involuntarily liquidated. If you owe federal taxes & expect to collect Social Security, think again. Uncle Sam isn't keen on paying you benefits at the same time you owe Uncle unpaid taxes. Same goes for military retirement pay. Or any federal funds. You can your passport revoked for having unpaid taxes so forget about that vacation to Aruba (which you shouldn't be taking if have tax debts anyway).

If a business owes delinquent taxes, IRS can show up with a Writ of Entry (civil form of a warrant), seize your business & assets & advertise an auction to sell those assets. You employees are told they're out of work, effective immediately. Customers told to leave the premises at once. Locksmith changes your locks (which you are charged for) & you are ordered out of your own business.

State tax authorities can do everything the IRS does - and more. States grant driver's licenses & professional licenses, i.e. to practice law, practice medicine, be a realtor, electrician, contractor, plumber, taxi driver, a CPA, etc. These licenses can be revoked for unpaid taxes. Then you are really in a world of hurt.

Bottom line: Don't fall behind on taxes. If you do, contact the IRS and/or state (people with money problems often owe both federal & state taxes) and work something out - quickly (those penalties & interest can really add up). If you continue to owe taxes, i.e. not a one time event, you're either a failing business (not enough money to pay all your bills) or a crook.

If you need help & don't understand taxes, it's well worth the money to hire a tax attorney (not your wife's cousin who handles real estate closing, but a TAX lawyer), a CPA or an Enrolled Agent (google the term). I know nothing about cars but how to drive 'em. If something goes wrong, I hire a mechanic. Same principle with tax problems.

I'm in my 30th year employed by the IRS so I've been around the block.
 
Humey said:
exactly, but garnishments have limits and my guess is that the son doesnt have lots of assets. When you got no money and no assets, even the IRS cant do much either.
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You might have limited income & assets TODAY, but what about 2, 3 or 5 years from now? IRS will always be in the background waiting for your "collectibility" to improve. Which, of course, will be hard to do anyway with a Federal Tax Lien ruining your credit score, preventing you from getting credit, keeping employers from hiring you, prospective landlords telling you "no" when you're looking for an apartment, paying 20% interest for a 2008 Ford Fiesta loan - if you can even get a loan. Credit cards will be things you see on TV commercials, not things in your wallet. You'll sport a circa 2006 flip phone which be frequently shut down when you can't afford to buy more minutes at the local Wal-Mart or convenience store.

You'll end up living in your parents house forever & working under-the-table with a bunch of Brazilians for a local landscaper, when not long ago you pictured yourself being a 1st lieutenant by now, well on your way to a professional life. You'll hide when you see an old classmate from high school, ashamed at having to explain your current situation. Invitations to class reunions will be crumbled up & tossed into the trash, unread.

McDonald's will become fine dining. You'll have no health insurance. You'll spend your meager income on Natural Lite 30-packs to blot out your daily misery, while you watch late-night "Law & Order" or "Cops" marathons.

Your parents will dread being asked questions about you still living at home at the age of 26. And your frequent requests for $10 in "gas money", which you'll often use to buy off-brand cigarettes.

You will be miserable & depressed. It will seem like there's no way out - you can't even file bankruptcy to have the unpaid ROTC scholarship amount discharged. It's part of the contract.

No, defaulting on ROTC scholarships is a really bad, bad thing.
 
Day-Tripper said:
You might have limited income & assets TODAY, but what about 2, 3 or 5 years from now? IRS will always be in the background waiting for your "collectibility" to improve. Which, of course, will be hard to do anyway with a Federal Tax Lien ruining your credit score, preventing you from getting credit, keeping employers from hiring you, prospective landlords telling you "no" when you're looking for an apartment, paying 20% interest for a 2008 Ford Fiesta loan - if you can even get a loan. Credit cards will be things you see on TV commercials, not things in your wallet. You'll sport a circa 2006 flip phone which be frequently shut down when you can't afford to buy more minutes at the local Wal-Mart or convenience store.

You'll end up living in your parents house forever & working under-the-table with a bunch of Brazilians for a local landscaper, when not long ago you pictured yourself being a 1st lieutenant by now, well on your way to a professional life. You'll hide when you see an old classmate from high school, ashamed at having to explain your current situation. Invitations to class reunions will be crumbled up & tossed into the trash, unread.

McDonald's will become fine dining. You'll have no health insurance. You'll spend your meager income on Natural Lite 30-packs to blot out your daily misery, while you watch late-night "Law & Order" or "Cops" marathons.

Your parents will dread being asked questions about you still living at home at the age of 26. And your frequent requests for $10 in "gas money", which you'll often use to buy off-brand cigarettes.

You will be miserable & depressed. It will seem like there's no way out - you can't even file bankruptcy to have the unpaid ROTC scholarship amount discharged. It's part of the contract.

No, defaulting on ROTC scholarships is a really bad, bad thing.
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I dont know about you, but no employer of mine has ever done a credit check on me. You are right, once his income and assets go up, the IRS will take more. Again, there are limitations on how much they can take out. You make it sound all doom and gloom. Plenty of people in this country have have zero to crap credit ratings that are able to buy cars and rent apartments. You just have to be more clever about it
 
Day-Tripper said:
You might have limited income & assets TODAY, but what about 2, 3 or 5 years from now? IRS will always be in the background waiting for your "collectibility" to improve. Which, of course, will be hard to do anyway with a Federal Tax Lien ruining your credit score, preventing you from getting credit, keeping employers from hiring you, prospective landlords telling you "no" when you're looking for an apartment, paying 20% interest for a 2008 Ford Fiesta loan - if you can even get a loan. Credit cards will be things you see on TV commercials, not things in your wallet. You'll sport a circa 2006 flip phone which be frequently shut down when you can't afford to buy more minutes at the local Wal-Mart or convenience store.

You'll end up living in your parents house forever & working under-the-table with a bunch of Brazilians for a local landscaper, when not long ago you pictured yourself being a 1st lieutenant by now, well on your way to a professional life. You'll hide when you see an old classmate from high school, ashamed at having to explain your current situation. Invitations to class reunions will be crumbled up & tossed into the trash, unread.

McDonald's will become fine dining. You'll have no health insurance. You'll spend your meager income on Natural Lite 30-packs to blot out your daily misery, while you watch late-night "Law & Order" or "Cops" marathons.

Your parents will dread being asked questions about you still living at home at the age of 26. And your frequent requests for $10 in "gas money", which you'll often use to buy off-brand cigarettes.

You will be miserable & depressed. It will seem like there's no way out - you can't even file bankruptcy to have the unpaid ROTC scholarship amount discharged. It's part of the contract.

No, defaulting on ROTC scholarships is a really bad, bad thing.
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That was oddly specific
 
I think day-tripper is trying to paint a bleak picture of what could happen and he has 1st hand experience with that (since he works for the IRS). The rest of us are just guessing what might or might not happen. I think he's doing a service to everyone here to tell them the real deal. I did want to point out that there are plenty of jobs that do require a credit check as well, which I know from first hand experience.
 
billyb said:
I think day-tripper is trying to paint a bleak picture of what could happen and he has 1st hand experience with that (since he works for the IRS). The rest of us are just guessing what might or might not happen. I think he's doing a service to everyone here to tell them the real deal. I did want to point out that there are plenty of jobs that do require a credit check as well, which I know from first hand experience.
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I too have been credit checked for new jobs.
 
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