Drug Tests

[NorwichDad]

But drugs do happen, and pretending they don't is kind of silly.

Not pretending but some of us old folks hear from our own young folks many heartbreaking stories about some good cadets(A friend at School, Airborne, Sandhurst, LDAC or Whatever) losing it all to a pot smoking party with friends over the summer, the DUIs of outstanding cadets, the underage violation by an up and coming underclassman and quite a few other things. Too many stories we have heard. We know its frequent. We also know the sadness and heartbreak of good kids and their families. So sorry to be preachy.

It is a big deal

DRUGS CANT HAPPEN.

 

[kinnem]

+1 to that. If you did drugs before ROTC and your honest about it, you may survive it. But if you do it after getting the scholarship and are found out you will not remain in the program. And eventually it's fairly certain they will find out.

 

[bruno]

But drugs do happen, and pretending they don't is kind of silly. Alcohol is also a drug, and probably worse for the body than many of the currently illegal ones.

Sometimes people on this site do get sort of preachy, and perhaps have a naive / Polyanna type attitude towards the young men and women who are in the ROTC program. Of course many of the posters are parents and probably in their 40's so those teen years were many many moons ago. We forget what it was like to be 18 or 19, and I think times are even harder for the kids today then they were when we were kids.

That being said drugs of any kind aren't good for you, and when you start having to worry when a drug test will occur so you can plan your usage around it, probably means you have some dependency issues and probably will have some tough decisions, and times, ahead of you.

No - there is a time to preach and this is it . Frankly- anyone who is asking a thinly veiled question about when they will get drug tested has no business getting a scholarship and has no place in the Army- as an officer or as a soldier. Sorry if you don't like the "sermon" but I can guarantee you that my opinion is the opinion of the people running the Army. And all the bleating in the world about how tough it is for kids now is both a fairly lame cop out and won't change the reality that they deservedly will be run out on a rail for their first and only strike in this regard. So instead of sugar coating it - tell them what they need to know- which is "stop now and don't start again and if you can't stop right now- just do yourself and everyone else a favor and don't let the door hit you on the butt". Sorry- got no time, sympathy or patience for kids who don't know the basics of right and wrong and acceptable and not acceptable behavior, (and I have no patience for those who make excuses for them either). That has nothing to do with the time since I was in HS - and far more to do with the amount of time I have spent in or around the Army and Soldiers. What is naive is the belief that a doper will stop being one when it matters- It matters now. I seriously doubt if you will run into an officer at any ROTC detachment of any branch at any college in the US that thinks differently.

 

[Pima]

Of course many of the posters are parents and probably in their 40's so those teen years were many many moons ago. We forget what it was like to be 18 or 19, and I think times are even harder for the kids today then they were when we were kids.

Speak for yourself...I remember quite clearly what it was like to be 18, 19, 20, etc. and my kids know I wasn't an angel.

PLUS, and probably MORE IMPORTANTLY, us 40 yr olds that can't remember being 18 are the ones that SIT ON THE BOARDS!
~~~ That's the real joke! 18 yos telling 40 some yr olds that they don't get the current 18 yo life, and at the same time it is that 40 something yr old that decides their life!

Do you not see the contradiction in your position?

OBTW, how are times harder these days? When I was in college and had a term paper due I had to live in the "stacks", kids today can google. I am not sure kids know what the "stacks" are.

There were no computers, laptops, internet, cell phones. skyping, etc. Please tell this woman of the ripe old age of 47 how much harder life is now with those technological advances.

What is so different today?

If we are going to get in the drugs issue, let's call a spade a spade. The defense of " I didn't know" falls pretty flat when you have a 1350 SAT, 3.87 cgpa, and top 2% of the class! You are not ignorant.


FWIW, have you ever realized there are lurkers on this site? Have you ever considered some of them are ROTC cadre? Take a peak around 8 pm EST...there is probably 200 viewers, but only 20 posters.

 

[Pima]

xposted with bruno


Listen to the man.

 

[Darrowboat]

When I went in for my DoDMERB exam, I was not required to take a urinalysis test. It was in fact on the sheet that I received from DoDMERB in the mail (basically telling me what I had to look forward to) but the doctors said it was no longer required. I asked several times if I needed to take it because I didn't want to come back and they said no. They sent in all my paperwork and DoDMERB status is now qualified.
I took my exam early January this year. However, I'm not sure if omitting the test is standard procedure so don't take my word for it. In any case, as many others have stated, drugs are not a good road to go down if you are looking to go anywhere in life.

So NO, you do not have to take a urinalysis test for the DoDMERB medical exam.

 

[Non Ducor Duco]

Perhaps Darrowboat did not, but I had to last year when I received my AFROTC scholarship. It may be a regional thing in which some DoDMERB proved offices need it and some don't. I remember that there were a few posts last year by concerned scholarship recipients that did not have to take a urinalysis test for their physicals either. And it is unlikely that you will be tested at your host university, but then again, some ROTC detatchments/battalions do have random drug tests and I'm sure that even the ones that don't have the ability to call for one if the cadre suspect several cadets of using.

Maybe you'll have one when you get your first physical done, or when you go to FT or LDAC, maybe your det will order one or you'll be required to do one at a summer activity like Airborne, maybe it'll be done during your umptienth physical for ROTC or AD. It could be anytime, happen several times, or not at all. You really don't know. There is also the fact that one must chose to either disclose all past drug usage for DoDMERB or lie about it, and there are greater consequences for lying.

Just last semester we had a cadet who went through FT, became a POC and contracted for AFROTC. Once they contracted they had to do DoDMERB. They decided to then disclose that they had smoked weed more times than was experimental during fall of freshman year after having joined AFROTC. This cadet was denied a waiver for this and was then subsequently dropped from the program.

As previously stated, you never really know if/when you will get a drug test or if your past indiscretions will come out from the background check they will inevitably run on you in a few years or what have you. So you should probably forgo any ideas of cheating the system and just go ahead and quit whatever you've been doing.

 

[-Bull-]

I took one when doing the DoDMERB thing 4 years ago. I'll take another this summer at LDAC. I haven't taken any others during my time in AROTC.

Drug use is not compatible with military service. Period.

 

[Pima]

LP_83

As you can see the drug topic is very touchy. Nobody thinks that 100% of cadets never experimented with drugs, alcohol or sex at your age. Shocker, right? Us parents actually know your halo is tilted!

Let's assume this isn't about illegal drugs, it was your way of asking about prescribed drugs, which would be a DoDMERB issue. You may believe if you stop taking that prescription than it would be out of your system prior to the testing; limiting the risk of a DQ, but the fact is you still need to tell them about your medical history, hence, it will come back up anyway with the same results.

The fact is whether or not they do a urine analysis, and whatever your reason is for wondering, honesty is the only option because hiding/shading facts will catch up with you one way or another.

You are wanting AFROTC. It will be highly probable you will need a TS clearance, be it rated or non-rated because every base has airframes. This is not a 1,2,3 process. The application alone is 50 some odd pages. You will be required to submit multiple references. These references will be personally interviewed by govt agents. They will ask if they know if you consumed alcohol underage, did drugs, run ins with the law. The interview will be about 45 minutes, and the questions will keep varying to see if the answers never change.

For our DS, we were interviewed too, basically because we had moved when he went to college and the neighbors didn't really know him. To illustrate how far back they go, the 1st question he asked me was he has gaps regarding where he lived since BIRTH! He was an ADAF child, the gaps occurred because when Bullet was training en route to his next duty station we lived with my Mom, sometimes up to 6 months, (3 yrs, 6 yrs old, 12 yrs old) but he never thought of putting those months down. They OTOH wanted to know where he lived everyday of his life. It mattered to them.

When Bullet went through his, we were dating in college, I was a sr., he put me down as a reference; did not tell me. I never got called. However, 1 day after class my academic adviser called me into his office. He asked me point blank why a govt agent wanted to know about me, and if he knew a Cadet Bullet?

TS clearances take about 6 months. I think you are getting the drift! Want to fly, cyberspace, Intel, or SP, you will need a TS clearance. Hide it now, it will probably flush out about 6-9 months prior to commissioning. 4 yrs of AFROTC gone in a matter of moments.

If it is DoDMERB, the same is true. As a C400 you will take another physical to commission. If you are going to stop the prescription and not acknowledge the medical issue. It will come up again, especially if you want rated. AFROTC sends all selected AFSC rated cadets to Wright Pat for 3 days of physicals, not the 45 minute one you will do now. Do you want to do 4 yrs to be DQ'd at the finish line.

FWIW, some cadets will never do a random drug test in AFROTC because the way the system works. Bullet in his 21 yrs, did it 1X. Our best friend did it 3X in 6 months, because of the system. Why? Because of the system. It is like the lottery. They randomly pick a squadron, and anyone in it with the last 4 SS numbers must report. In the case of our friend, the AF was looking to build a case against one person that was in his SS range.
In Bullet's case it was his number was up.

DS1 came home for Xmas, he was on casual status. He had been working T38 Maintenance, but he reported one day and was told he had to go to the Pee House. He wasn't being tested, he was there to insure that the test was being performed properly, for lack of better words. We all laughed at the fact that was one job he never thought he would have as an officer when he entered AFROTC in 08.

I am going to believe this is not illegal drugs (naive to some posters), I am going to believe it is a med you are prescribed and know will DQ you.

Either way my position doesn't change, it will catch up to you. You need to decide if the scholarship is worth the risk. Gojira, Non Ducor and myself, will tell you that if they find out 2,3 or 4 yrs later the price is very high as a scholarship recipient. Tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and no commissioning.

CAVEAT: GOJIRA'S DS was dis-enrolled for being 8 lbs over weight, no drug issue!

 

[USMCGrunt]

The original post had the question about how long after receiving scholarship do you have a drug test. Lots of good and helpful commentary has followed. I would like to add one more comment regarding timing.

This may be the only time you might be able to control the timing of a test. If you have not scheduled your physical, you could delay. Be advised that the physical is just as critical to earning a scholarship as the application. You have to have a DODMERB physical and you have to be declared physically qualified.

Should you have the opportunity to serve as an Officer in the service, you should expect random tests. These are meant to be truly random and hit all ranks. No notice, no prep. In our case, you were notified in a morning formation and reported directly to the collection site.

Also, please note that tests are for illegal drugs AND some banned chemicals that can be found in over the counter materials.

 

[LP_83]

I would like to say thank you to those of you who actually helped me out. I've never done this scholarship process before (clearly, you only graduate high school once lol), so I'm somewhat confused on how this whole thing works. So thanks again for filling me in.
To the ones that didn't really provide any useful information with respect to my question.. :/

 

[-Bull-]

To the ones that didn't really provide any useful information with respect to my question.. :/

If this thread ruffled your feathers, you're in for a treat the first time you participate in an AAR for something you were responsible for/in charge of/overseeing.


Thick skin. It's the nature of the beast you're trying to join.

 

[Pima]

LP,

You did great until you decided to give a dig in the last part of your post.

You didn't need to do the dig. One day in the not so distant future you will want more guidance, but because of that dig, some maybe unwilling to answer.

Heck, I don't know who here you consider an asset and who are not in your opinion, because to me every poster helped. I might be on your sheatt list, heck I am sure I am.

They may have not assisted in telling you when it will occur, but they all gave you insight on how drug use will be perceived in the AFROTC world. That is a gift because the majority of AFROTC candidates/recipients have never heard of this website. You are in front of the curve.

xposted with -Bull-, I agree better start thickening your skin. This was kind compared to what you will hear from a ROTC cadre member. I dare you to go tomorrow and pose that same question to them. Let me know if you do, because I would love to be the fly on the wall when that adviser walks back into the office and says to everyone "You gotta hear this one...a candidate asked me how long after being awarded a scholarship will he be drug tested?" They will be laughing their arses off for the rest of the day thanks to you!

You would also be tagged the minute you show up for ROTC.

Yet, here you are anonymous. There is no impact on your future.

 

[goaliedad]

I would like to say thank you to those of you who actually helped me out. I've never done this scholarship process before (clearly, you only graduate high school once lol), so I'm somewhat confused on how this whole thing works. So thanks again for filling me in.
To the ones that didn't really provide any useful information with respect to my question.. :/

Most of the young folks who come here are confused on how this whole thing works.

Most of the young folks here get their questions answered to the best of the abilities of the members (including cadets, parents, cadre (yes they participate too!), and ex-military). Most of the answers come with encouragement to those who present questions that are generally interpreted as innocent.

We get it that people are anxious. We try to calm their fears. However, we need to have a situation that we can sympathize with before we lend a whole lot of support. While the answers may still not be what they want to hear (some folks are beyond the requirements of military service), at least we try to make them feel better about how they are approaching the situation.

And when we get questions where you wonder if someone is hiding something, it tends to draw out a lot of suspicious questions. We have had folks asking about whether people can see items that have been expunged from their criminal record. Wouldn't you ask, what is SO awful in a criminal record that you would consider hiding behind an expunged record (which isn't as invisible as you might think, btw)?

My point here is that it isn't personal here until you try to hide it. We've also had people here who ask whether their shoplifting charge will disqualify them. Those folks get more supportive answers than the person asking about the expunged record (which may be for shoplifting). Why?

One thing that you learn quickly in the military is that there are NO secrets and that bad news doesn't get better with time. When folks make mistakes and admit to them up front without it being pulled out of them, they are most likely to get sympathy and consideration. This is a trait that needs to be learned up front. If you have it before you start, it is bonus points.

Now you may very well have a very innocent reason for asking about drug testing. I've heard stories of kids getting pot-laced brownies at a chaperoned party. It would make someone test positive for a while potentially. I'd be behaving like I got the ex-lax laced brownie if someone gave me the pot-laced brownie the day before a drug test.

So please try to understand that it is the lack of mitigating details that has drawn the suspicions of so many posters on this thread when you ask about drug testing.

BTW, the answers you have received (the ones you liked) may or may not still be accurate as one thing that is constant in the world of ROTC is that the procedures change a little bit every year. One year you may get the DoDMERB letter 1 week after you get the scholarship letter, the next you may get the physical call before you get the scholarship offer. One year they may have you fill the cup, another year maybe not.

So as much as you may have an idea of how drug screening MAY be happening, that is much less valuable than having a community of people who can help you work through the issues that may arise from decision you may have made in the past.

Which do YOU think is more valuable?

There is no shame in having made a mistake. Covering up the mistake is always much more damaging than the original mistake could ever have been. If you can bring yourself to open up, you will find answers to questions that will be more helpful to you in the long run.

 

[USMCGrunt]

+1 goaliedad

Well said

 

[LP_83]

I understand. And no my "feathers" aren't "ruffled" lol... I would just rather come to a forum to have any questions answered. And as far as me hiding anything, I believe that's the job of the Air Force to find out anything "secretive" about me, not here.
I was directed here, and was told that if I had questions about the process or anything involving any branch for that matter, that I should come here.

Edit: And what do you mean covering anything in the past up? I'm confused, what am I covering up?

 

[Moosestache]

The covering up is based upon the assumption you want to know when the drug test is so you will be able to stop smoking pot a few weeks before the test and not get caught.

Actually its not the USAF's job to find out anything secretive about you, it is your responsibility to be honest on your application. If you aren't, and you are caught you will be booted from Rotc/USAF and depending upon your status, forced to repay, perhaps immediately, your scholarship money, or forced to go enlisted. I'm also not sure, but you may very well be subject to legal ramifications if you lie on federal documents.

 

[goaliedad]

I understand. And no my "feathers" aren't "ruffled" lol... I would just rather come to a forum to have any questions answered. And as far as me hiding anything, I believe that's the job of the Air Force to find out anything "secretive" about me, not here.
I was directed here, and was told that if I had questions about the process or anything involving any branch for that matter, that I should come here.

Edit: And what do you mean covering anything in the past up? I'm confused, what am I covering up?

I think you are missing the point of an online community here...

We get the "What's mine is mine and none of your business" message loud and clear. What you are missing here is if everyone here took the same attitude and shared in the same manner, there wouldn't be many members or posts.

We have people who bare rather personal facts about their experiences for the benefit of the whole community, not because we have some duty to answer questions from anyone who gets an ID and posts. We do so seeking to share the human experience (not just the facts, Ma'am) of the Service Academy and ROTC process. We seek out and support others who share the same experience and willingness to share their personal story.

I personally came here looking for folks who had experience with playing collegiate sports and participating in ROTC. I also had concerns about the height/weight standards and how/when they were enforced. My daughter plays a sport where the top athletes (as evidenced by the national team) mostly do not meet the height/weight standards of the military.

I could have come here asking, "When do they weigh you?" without talking about her background and gotten the same response you are getting about drug testing - "Don't wait until the last minute to go on a diet." People would have assumed my daughter has an eating/exercise problem and probably would not have given me as much helpful guidance about the process as they have, if I had been a "Just tell me when she needs to hit the scale" type of poster.

Being honest and vulnerable takes a stronger person than being private about all things. This is a quality that is respected and valued in the military not just by your leadership, but by your peers as well. Perhaps a little introspection about this might be in order.

 

[Pima]

+1 to moosetache.

It is your responsibility to be 100% honest,

+1 to goaliedad.

If people don't know the extent of the circumstances, they can only go by assumptions which could be completely off target. Their replies will not assist you in anyway under the wrong assumptions.

As it has been stated over and over again, if this scholarship is the only way you can afford to attend your dream college, before you hit the accept button make sure you have a plan B on how you will pay for that school without the scholarship.

This is not just because of a drug question, it is because the scholarship may be for 4 yrs, but in reality it can be revoked after 2 yrs if you are not offered an SFT slot. The rate nationally hovers between 50-60%. Def. not a guarantee. Plus who knows how Sequestration will/may impact AFROTC.

 

[-Bull-]

I understand. And no my "feathers" aren't "ruffled" lol... I would just rather come to a forum to have any questions answered. And as far as me hiding anything, I believe that's the job of the Air Force to find out anything "secretive" about me, not here.
I was directed here, and was told that if I had questions about the process or anything involving any branch for that matter, that I should come here.

Edit: And what do you mean covering anything in the past up? I'm confused, what am I covering up?

Have fun with that mindset.