Gap between commissioning and reporting for duty (AFROTC)

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mil.intel

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Jan 9, 2016
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Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone had any insights on the average time gap between when AFROTC cadets commission and when they have to report for their first duty for non-rated 2d Lts (more specifically for 62X, 63X if possible).

I'd hate to idle around for 2+ summer months and would like to work if I get a generous gap. In order to do that, I would have to go through application/interview process with different companies preferably starting next semester.

Any words of advice is appreciated!
 
So AFPC likes to spread out ROTC commissionees since Academy LTs are immediately in active duty following their graduation. Academy LTs normally report to their first base 60 days following graduation (They have 60 days of paid leave they would use for vacation following graduation). You will find out that it's luck of the draw for EAD dates for AFROTC. It's based on evening out the amount of officers coming into active duty at a single time so base lodging isn't backed up and the amount of slots available for tech school at a time. AFPC is keen on getting you in active duty close to your tech school start date so there isn't a lot of time twiddling thumbs. Fortunately for 62X and 63X they go to their base first before going to tech school so you only need to worry about the evening out part. Once you get your EAD dates you are more than likely going to go on that date or even earlier. There isn't really a factor for you to be pushed back compared to RPAs or Intel where their school houses are backed up. You get the luxury of being able to do OJT at your base while waiting for tech school to happen.

Now for the case if you are waiting for such a long time you need a job and a good job that's worth the money I suggest going into the interview not mentioning you are going to be in the position for less than a year. Don't mention you are going to enter Active Duty at some time. Be vague as in you're in the reserves and can be called up if needed. Only mention you're full intentions after you signed the job contract and the payroll starts. In a management viewpoint I will not hire a person that will only be in the company for just a couple of months. Unless the hiring managers have some kind of military background they usually don't understand ROTC. You'll have to think about yourself and putting the best situations for you compared to putting the best situation for your employer.
 
It really depends. I’m a 13S and went on active duty just about 30 days after commissioning. However, your cadre should be able to tell you an idea of a date which will probably not be accurate near the beginning of second semester senior year. However, it will let you know what FY you’re supposed to be going in so you know whether you’ll have a super long wait or a shorter wait. I know people who thought they had time and were off on vacation and got a phone call that they had to go on AD in two weeks. Anyhow, I’m sorry there’s nothing really concrete I can tell you. Good luck!

P.s. this doesn’t change too much once on AD. I’m deploying soon and still don’t have an actual date or orders. I know people who’ve gotten orders only a couple days prior to deploying. I also know people who were set to PCS overseas and sent all their stuff and sold their house but their orders got cancelled a couple days before they were supposed to leave. BL: be flexible and come up with alternate plans depending on how things look
 
You don't always have to interview for a job. For 2-3 months I wouldn't be shooting for a high paying, career oriented job. Try tending bar and leading tours at a craft brewery. They are often looking for folks for the summer as their regular college student employees are home or taking some vacation. Craft breweries also have many special events over the summer, both at the brewery and in remoter venues, concerts, and beer festivals. They're looking for muscle for those as kegs need to be moved, etc. It will put jingle jangle in your pocket while hanging out with your folks and friends over the summer.

DS landed just that job for about 20 hours per week prior to reporting for active duty. It was perfect for him. He loves and is extremely knowledgeable about beer (is beer geek a thing?), it put enough money in his pocket, and left him time for plenty of fun and adventure prior to reporting for active duty. When leading a tour he always started out introducing himself as the Marine Corps newest lieutenant.

BTW, when he headed to his MOS school he had to drive from the east coast to the west coast. He planned his trip around the craft breweries he wanted to visit. He usually spent time conversing with the brew meister and getting a personal tour. Again, is beer geek a thing? How many folks tasts a beer and say to you, "Can you taste the banana notes in that?". :D
 
kinnem said:
You don't always have to interview for a job. For 2-3 months I wouldn't be shooting for a high paying, career oriented job. Try tending bar and leading tours at a craft brewery. They are often looking for folks for the summer as their regular college student employees are home or taking some vacation. Craft breweries also have many special events over the summer, both at the brewery and in remoter venues, concerts, and beer festivals. They're looking for muscle for those as kegs need to be moved, etc. It will put jingle jangle in your pocket while hanging out with your folks and friends over the summer.

DS landed just that job for about 20 hours per week prior to reporting for active duty. It was perfect for him. He loves and is extremely knowledgeable about beer (is beer geek a thing?), it put enough money in his pocket, and left him time for plenty of fun and adventure prior to reporting for active duty. When leading a tour he always started out introducing himself as the Marine Corps newest lieutenant.

BTW, when he headed to his MOS school he had to drive from the east coast to the west coast. He planned his trip around the craft breweries he wanted to visit. He usually spent time conversing with the brew meister and getting a personal tour. Again, is beer geek a thing? How many folks tasts a beer and say to you, "Can you taste the banana notes in that?". :D
Click to expand...

Sounds like he had a blast!

It's just that perhaps USMC has a different policy than the USAF regarding work between commissioning and reporting for duty. My cadre specifically mentioned that the supervisor/CC has to approve and sign off on the temporary work in case the 2d Lts started to work as bar tenders etc.

I'll be interning at a major defense contractor as an engineer this summer, and would like to get exposed to another corporate setting before going AD.
 
AlphaAlphaSigma said:
So AFPC likes to spread out ROTC commissionees since Academy LTs are immediately in active duty following their graduation. Academy LTs normally report to their first base 60 days following graduation (They have 60 days of paid leave they would use for vacation following graduation). You will find out that it's luck of the draw for EAD dates for AFROTC. It's based on evening out the amount of officers coming into active duty at a single time so base lodging isn't backed up and the amount of slots available for tech school at a time. AFPC is keen on getting you in active duty close to your tech school start date so there isn't a lot of time twiddling thumbs. Fortunately for 62X and 63X they go to their base first before going to tech school so you only need to worry about the evening out part. Once you get your EAD dates you are more than likely going to go on that date or even earlier. There isn't really a factor for you to be pushed back compared to RPAs or Intel where their school houses are backed up. You get the luxury of being able to do OJT at your base while waiting for tech school to happen.

Now for the case if you are waiting for such a long time you need a job and a good job that's worth the money I suggest going into the interview not mentioning you are going to be in the position for less than a year. Don't mention you are going to enter Active Duty at some time. Be vague as in you're in the reserves and can be called up if needed. Only mention you're full intentions after you signed the job contract and the payroll starts. In a management viewpoint I will not hire a person that will only be in the company for just a couple of months. Unless the hiring managers have some kind of military background they usually don't understand ROTC. You'll have to think about yourself and putting the best situations for you compared to putting the best situation for your employer.
Click to expand...

Because most of my class will be looking for a full time position after graduation, I don't know if a lot of companies accept or even offer a full-time temporary (summer term) employment for graduating seniors. In your knowledge, do companies tend to do that?
 
Well, perhaps you can intern there next summer too.
 
afrotc16 said:
It really depends. I’m a 13S and went on active duty just about 30 days after commissioning. However, your cadre should be able to tell you an idea of a date which will probably not be accurate near the beginning of second semester senior year. However, it will let you know what FY you’re supposed to be going in so you know whether you’ll have a super long wait or a shorter wait. I know people who thought they had time and were off on vacation and got a phone call that they had to go on AD in two weeks. Anyhow, I’m sorry there’s nothing really concrete I can tell you. Good luck!

P.s. this doesn’t change too much once on AD. I’m deploying soon and still don’t have an actual date or orders. I know people who’ve gotten orders only a couple days prior to deploying. I also know people who were set to PCS overseas and sent all their stuff and sold their house but their orders got cancelled a couple days before they were supposed to leave. BL: be flexible and come up with alternate plans depending on how things look
Click to expand...

Thank you! How do you like space? I've thought it as another possibility for some time.
 
mil.intel said:
Because most of my class will be looking for a full time position after graduation, I don't know if a lot of companies accept or even offer a full-time temporary (summer term) employment for graduating seniors. In your knowledge, do companies tend to do that?
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Companies typically don't do that since they know after graduating people want a full time career oriented position. What I meant was to apply for a job you want to with the "intention" throughout the hiring process of staying there for a couple years only to state your true intentions after you are fully hired and went through probation. Most corporate jobs have a contract where you must stay with the company at a certain term but with active duty orders they must release you and allow you to return to the job if for some reason you get kicked out of the Air Force (Note it doesn't need to be the same position you just have to be rehired back by the company).

mil.intel said:
Sounds like he had a blast!

It's just that perhaps USMC has a different policy than the USAF regarding work between commissioning and reporting for duty. My cadre specifically mentioned that the supervisor/CC has to approve and sign off on the temporary work in case the 2d Lts started to work as bar tenders etc.

I'll be interning at a major defense contractor as an engineer this summer, and would like to get exposed to another corporate setting before going AD.
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That's odd as my cadre stated when I commissioned they are no longer in control of me. For example, if I wanted to do overseas leave during my purgatory time I would've needed to contact my nearest reserve command to get documentation. Interesting they still wanted keeps on your job after commissioning.

Also considering you are working with a major defense contractor I see why you cannot do an internship following graduation (unless graduation disqualifies you?). I knew several friends that got offers from a defense contractor following graduation and before EAD but could not do the work due to security clearance issues (which is another story to get).
 
^My cadre meant the supervisor/CC for whom you will first report to after commissioning.

Also, yes I'll look at their possible return offers. Were your friends not cleared with security clearance even until commissioning?
 
AlphaAlphaSigma said:
Companies typically don't do that since they know after graduating people want a full time career oriented position. What I meant was to apply for a job you want to with the "intention" throughout the hiring process of staying there for a couple years only to state your true intentions after you are fully hired and went through probation. Most corporate jobs have a contract where you must stay with the company at a certain term but with active duty orders they must release you and allow you to return to the job if for some reason you get kicked out of the Air Force (Note it doesn't need to be the same position you just have to be rehired back by the company).
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I would only follow that advise if I never wanted to work for that company again in the future. People keep records and I doubt they will have you back.
 
If I hadn’t gone on AD so quickly after commissioning, I would likely have called up the place I’d interned the previous summer and asked them if they had another intern position I could slip in to for the time I was there. Since they knew I was in AFROTC and were generally familiar with the military, I think they likely would have accommodated me. I’d just make sure to keep up some contacts and ask them straight out during your internship if they’d be willing to take you again next summer if you don’t go active duty quickly. My cadre never said anything about getting approval for jobs. Since you’re in reserve status and not getting paid, that is generally expected if you’re not going on AD for a while. The only time you should need approval is if you need to push back your EAD to accommodate an internship program.

Space is an interesting career field. There are a lot of different jobs with very different missions within the career field, and I’m enjoying it so far. Definitely PM me with specific questions :)

Also, security clearances are super slow. Took me ~1.5 years after commissioning, I’ve seen some go over 2 years.
 
kinnem said:
AlphaAlphaSigma said:
Companies typically don't do that since they know after graduating people want a full time career oriented position. What I meant was to apply for a job you want to with the "intention" throughout the hiring process of staying there for a couple years only to state your true intentions after you are fully hired and went through probation. Most corporate jobs have a contract where you must stay with the company at a certain term but with active duty orders they must release you and allow you to return to the job if for some reason you get kicked out of the Air Force (Note it doesn't need to be the same position you just have to be rehired back by the company).
Click to expand...

I would only follow that advise if I never wanted to work for that company again in the future. People keep records and I doubt they will have you back.
Click to expand...
You're also taking a job from someone who needs it - you're going on to your sure-thing military job but the civilian will have to keep looking. It's also deceiving the employer who is hiring you in good faith that you're staying there and not knowingly leaving in a couple of months. They're going to have to retrain and redo the whole interview process because you leave in a couple of months.
I'm a little bothered by the ethical issue here, especially for an ROTC cadet. Deceiving and employer just to make a couple of months pay is similar to being deceitful on the ROTC app just to get the scholarship. I don't know if this is the type of officer the AF is looking for.
Do what kinnem suggests - find a summer job like bartending. Better yet, take advantage of Space A and travel a little - I'm sure you saved a little of your monthly ROTC payments.
 
unkown1961 said:
You're also taking a job from someone who needs it - you're going on to your sure-thing military job but the civilian will have to keep looking. It's also deceiving the employer who is hiring you in good faith that you're staying there and not knowingly leaving in a couple of months. They're going to have to retrain and redo the whole interview process because you leave in a couple of months.
I'm a little bothered by the ethical issue here, especially for an ROTC cadet. Deceiving and employer just to make a couple of months pay is similar to being deceitful on the ROTC app just to get the scholarship. I don't know if this is the type of officer the AF is looking for.
Do what kinnem suggests - find a summer job like bartending. Better yet, take advantage of Space A and travel a little - I'm sure you saved a little of your monthly ROTC payments.
Click to expand...
Fair enough on the ethical questioning. I personally jumped internship to internship waiting for EAD to come. Knowing that my EAD was a year after my commissioning I wanted to make my year useful in making professional experiences. I didn't say much about my military service during the interview as advised by my peers. While I couldn't make a career in the field immediately due to my military commitments it was something I wanted to do following my military service. I got the internships and only near the middle of the internship that I mentioned I needed to terminate it soon to go into active duty. I mentioned to both that the experiences I have had in the internship helped me draw out a plan in what I wanted to do after the military. I guess it's easier to do it on an internship as the employer can expect some volatility. My viewpoint has been skewed due to the cynical environment of the corporate world that one has to be deceitful so I do apologize if you are bothered by my advice.

So to the OP. If you already have had an internship you shouldn't have much trouble in getting another one even without my advice. If you have gotten this internship when they fully now you aren't going to pursue a career you shouldn't be sweating on tip toeing ethics. I did so in the interest of the internship I was pursuing and knew they wouldn't have accepted me if I laid out an end term even before I got the internship. I don't think you'll have that problem.
 
AlphaAlphaSigma said:
My viewpoint has been skewed due to the cynical environment of the corporate world that one has to be deceitful so I do apologize if you are bothered by my advice.
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You are working for the wrong company then. I wouldn't ever work in an environment where you have to be deceitful. I hope you find your military experience better than that. Bottom line....honesty is always the best policy (in and out of the military).
 
I also do not agree about entering into this temporary job search hiding your intentions. You will be commissioned as an Officer in the United States Air Force and your word is your bond.

You will not be able to find an entry level professional position but could look at internships or shift to more of a seasonal job.
 
AlphaAlphaSigma said:
unkown1961 said:
You're also taking a job from someone who needs it - you're going on to your sure-thing military job but the civilian will have to keep looking. It's also deceiving the employer who is hiring you in good faith that you're staying there and not knowingly leaving in a couple of months. They're going to have to retrain and redo the whole interview process because you leave in a couple of months.
I'm a little bothered by the ethical issue here, especially for an ROTC cadet. Deceiving and employer just to make a couple of months pay is similar to being deceitful on the ROTC app just to get the scholarship. I don't know if this is the type of officer the AF is looking for.
Do what kinnem suggests - find a summer job like bartending. Better yet, take advantage of Space A and travel a little - I'm sure you saved a little of your monthly ROTC payments.
Click to expand...
Fair enough on the ethical questioning. I personally jumped internship to internship waiting for EAD to come. Knowing that my EAD was a year after my commissioning I wanted to make my year useful in making professional experiences. I didn't say much about my military service during the interview as advised by my peers. While I couldn't make a career in the field immediately due to my military commitments it was something I wanted to do following my military service. I got the internships and only near the middle of the internship that I mentioned I needed to terminate it soon to go into active duty. I mentioned to both that the experiences I have had in the internship helped me draw out a plan in what I wanted to do after the military. I guess it's easier to do it on an internship as the employer can expect some volatility. My viewpoint has been skewed due to the cynical environment of the corporate world that one has to be deceitful so I do apologize if you are bothered by my advice.

So to the OP. If you already have had an internship you shouldn't have much trouble in getting another one even without my advice. If you have gotten this internship when they fully now you aren't going to pursue a career you shouldn't be sweating on tip toeing ethics. I did so in the interest of the internship I was pursuing and knew they wouldn't have accepted me if I laid out an end term even before I got the internship. I don't think you'll have that problem.
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I thought that was your reasoning, and I'm with you on being cynical about corporations and looking out for yourself first because the corporation won't be (I'll include university employers and how they treat non-tenured track faculty, which is my current situation). I've been in the Fortune 500 corporate world before and have seen what I believe you're referring to.
Then again, I'm just as cynical about military leadership, having seen and read about too many unequal treatments and examples of higher ranks getting slaps on the wrist for things lower ranks get really busted for. Or people who can't think outside of a box and apply actions with no thought of the context surrounding the issues.
(But, this is not saying there aren't good people and good employers out there.)
Having said that, I do think that the situation initially presented was a bit unethical, especially in that it can take a job away from a civilian who is looking at that position for a career. It's one thing not to feel bad about leaving an employer for a better job and giving less than 2 weeks notice, but taking a long term position knowing you're only there for a fraction of the time goes beyond what I'd recommend to my kids or students. But if it's a summer internship that covers the cadet's time off, take it since the internship was short term anyway.
I still go back to the Space A - go backpack around Germany or snorkel in Okinawa during that time off. :)
 
All,

Thank you for your thoughtful words of advice and wisdom. To clarify, I have zero mal-intention to deceive the company recruiters; I'll make sure I clarify my position before going into the recruitment process.

Note that most companies treat full-time, temporary summer internships and full-time post-graduation jobs differently, so I wouldn't necessarily be taking away anyone's opportunity to begin with.

EDIT: Does anyone know how delayed EAD for the AF works?
 
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