How do candidates decide between USNA or NROTC?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by usna1234, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Humey

    Humey Member

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    If I have said this many times, colleges and universities act in their own best interest and and will do what is best for them. Parents and students most also think of their own best interest. YOu make a 500 deposit for school for Univ A and then change your mind and go to Univ B, well thats fine as long as you realize you will lose your deposit. You owe dont owe the Univ anything and they act in kind. This idea of binding yourself to a school is crazy. I would try 100% to honor my committment to a school I did ED with. On ther other hand, stuff happens in life and sometimes things change
     
  2. OldRetSWO

    OldRetSWO USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs 5-Year Member

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    You say that you don't owe the Univ anything but that's not how Arizona State Univ treated my daughter. They went after her for a full year's tuition plus Room & Board. While they did not take legal action, they did send it to a collection agency and ten yrs later, her credit is still heavily impacted.
     
  3. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 10-Year Member

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    I don't know the details on what agreement your daughter made, but I can assure you that your experience is, by far, an extreme exception. Changing one's mind after making an "early decision" is not a particularly rare occurrence. You say they took no legal action. It sounds like you should have, though. I can think of all kinds of extenuating circumstances that could occur that would make a decision made earlier, by a minor (if under 18, which is often the case), untenable. Find a reason! Any reason! They're not going to launch an investigation.

    From Virginia Tech: "We're not going to come after them," says Mildred Johnson, associate vice provost for enrollment management and director of undergraduate admissions at Virginia Tech, where about 25 to 30 students who are accepted via early decision decline the offer each year for a variety of reasons. "It's just kind of an honor thing, you said you were going to do this. But no, we are not chasing them down." [Translation: It's only a handshake and they know it. The higher the institution of learning, the less they care. Their attitude is usually that you needed them more than they needed you anyway. They don't need your money and they're not going to waste their time. It's not worth the fee they have to pay the collection agency for money they're probably never going to get anyway.]

    In some ways, early decision is a gentleman's agreement, says Dave Tobias, vice president of enrollment for Ursinus College in Pennsylvania. "We don't have a lot of ability to do anything on our end to the student."

    In any case, I only responded to this thread in the context of a statement that a candidate for NROTC might have to withdraw from applying to USNA in order to be accepted by the NROTC program. With purely civilian programs, your mileage may vary. What do you think happens if you check the "YES" box for attending the Naval Academy and simply don't show up on I-Day? Nothing.
     
  4. SY96

    SY96 Member

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    Back to OP’s original question, I am interested in the 10% to 99% statistic. My DS interviewed with the PMS (ok, I know this is the USNA thread) of an Ivy who said, “with your profile, how come you aren’t applying to [my Ivy]?” He went on to explain that having ROTC on your app was as good as being a minority candidate for admissions officers at the Ivy. Although he was flattered, he took it all with a grain of salt, because the PMS is naturally trying to recruit. Best of luck in your decision and in having options to pursue your dream.
     
  5. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    Wow.
     
  6. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    It's easy to talk in generalities on these Forums, but it would be easy, and well within the power of a University t0 draft the deposit agreement to be a committment for 1 year, or even 4 years , tuition. As suggested here, I would suspect that most simply provide for forfeiture of the deposit if you don't matriculate simply because its the easiest way to deter multiple acceptances. Trying to collect tuition , room and board is difficult ,and and usually ineffective if the obligor is an 18 year old, but I've heard it mentioned here a few times.

    The take away is simple. Don't rely on what you read here. You should READ AND UNDERSTAND everything you sign, particularly when dealing with things as important a College Deposits. Also, if possible ..make sure the person signing is the student themselves. (Full disclosure, I am a lawyer, and it drives my wife crazy when I read and refuse to sign things). I will confess, I have not idea what my daughter's signed when they were accepted at their east coast schools.

    I agree that this is not an ethical issue, as long as you understand the terms of the deposit. If there is any ambiguity, I would make it clear upfront to the Plan B that the intent is only to attend if USNA falls through for any reason. I try to be upfront and avoid problems, so I would probably include a statement to that effect when you submit the deposit.
     
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  7. OldRetSWO

    OldRetSWO USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs 5-Year Member

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    She did NOT apply Early Decision, just regular decision and we put a $500 deposit down in the spring. The university absolutely refused to speak with me about the matter despite numerous calls and attempts by my daughter to get them to talk to me.
    I agree that a service academy is different but wanted to put out there that paying the deposit on Plan B "Just in Case" can have consequences down the road.
     
  8. Norfolk63

    Norfolk63 BGO and MidDad 5-Year Member

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    Wow! That gives one pause. With 01 May being the official signing date at most universities, it would be wise to hold off and wait for all the responses to come in. Good luck everyone!
     
  9. USNAismyplace

    USNAismyplace USNA 2023

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    I agree @Norfolk63 . Even if I receive a USNA appointment, I am going to wait to hear from all of the civilian schools and NROTC because I put a lot of work into those applications!
     
  10. billyb

    billyb 5-Year Member

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    I thought, though not sure, that the college that the ED acceptee didn't attend can put the onus of that on the high school (counselor should have known) and not allow others from that school to be admitted for a number of years. I think that would only be applicable for very highly sought after colleges, but still would sting future kids at that high school.
     
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  11. Humey

    Humey Member

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    I dont know what your daughter signed but I would have taken legal action against the University for what they were doing. Anyone can claim anything they want
     
  12. Freedom1776

    Freedom1776 Member

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    I imagine it's too late for OP to see my advice, so this is for any future lurkers.

    If you want to commission into the Marine Corps, I personally would advise NROTC. NROTC guarantees you the Marines from the moment you receive the scholarship. My understanding is that at USNA you have to get noticed as an upperclassman and invited to Leatherneck. If you don't receive the invitation, you're joining the Navy.
     
  13. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 10-Year Member

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    You're right! Now, imagine you want to be a doctor. At a regular university, you don't need permission to apply to medical school. At the Naval Academy, no matter how qualified you are to attend medical school, you still have to be selected by the Naval Academy's Medical Corps Selection Board. They usually have very rigid limits on how many they allow. Only then can you apply to medical school. And, even with that, you're not given this permission until very late in the admission game. All your medical school competition got a huge head start on you. And still - despite the permission to attend medical school, you still have to get accepted into a medical school on your own merit. No acceptance - no Medical Corps. I would not recommend attending the Naval Academy if the only acceptable assignment is Medical Corps. But, if you happen to get selected, it's a TREMENDOUS DEAL!
    https://www.usna.edu/ChemDept/ChemMajor/med-corps-info.php#Major_Selection
     
  14. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Well not quite. I guess technically you have to be invited but that's going to be based on stats the midshipman can have a personal impact on. There are also measures to make sure your desires are known, including joining Semper Fi. You're correct though that there is no guarantee of getting to Leatherneck and commissioning as a Marine.
     
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  15. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    Neither " guarantees you the Marines" rather both give you the OPPORTUNITY to become Marines. I don't know the whole pipeline for USMC NROTC, but my understanding it involves three summers at Quantico, including attending OCS, and I would expect there is a process for weeding out those that don't have the right aptitude or attitude to be Marine Officers. On the other hand, the preliminary screening process is done at USNA , and those without the right aptitude or attitude are not given the opportunity to attend Leatherneck, and compete for assignment to USMC.

    I understand that in recent years, the demand for USMC assignments has been greater than spots available, but I have not heard of any instance where the persons best suited for a USMC assignment was not given the opportunity. It takes a special type of person to be a Marine Officer (and I say that sincerely, although I will confess a dozen crayon eater jokes just flashed through my head), and I would suggest that if someone were to select NROTC over USNA purely to avoid competing for a USMC position at USNA, that person might not be the what USMC is looking for.
     
  16. THParent

    THParent Member

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    Look @Old Navy BGO, TBS is a full six months long because we learn how to prepare the crayons in dozens of tasty dishes, and discover how well certain beers "pair" with the different colors. I would tell you more, but you're not a Marine.
     
  17. OldRetSWO

    OldRetSWO USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs 5-Year Member

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    My daughter did not sign a contract if that is what you're implying. Again, the university refused to even speak with me about the issue and in the end, my daughter did not want us to go to court over this. My sister (her aunt) is an attorney and did not recommend us filing suit over this, just to not pay it and let the issue work itself off of her credit file.
     
  18. Humey

    Humey Member

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    I personally would have fought in court but then again sometimes doing nothing works better. Its a shame her credit rating was hurt by it, but at the very least I would have talked to the credit bureaus that there was never an agreement and the claim was false
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Close. 2 summer cruises including CORTRAMID and 6 weeks one summer at Quantico for OCS. They do weed them out there, some voluntarily and some involuntarily. Drop rates vary each year. DS's OCS class lost 17%. I've heard of classes that lost up to 50%. In the latter case I'm guessing they didn't need as many officers as originally anticipated due to a draw down so the knife was unusually sharp, but I don't actually know that. Of course the units themselves do the normal weeding as well prior to OCS.

    My favorite is the kid who got dropped because he took a swing at a Sgt. I expect he barely had time to pack his bags while under supervision... assuming he could still walk.
     
  20. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    Revisiting this (ED) from the point of USNA. I was reading stickies for an unrelated thing, and this piqued my interest (copied from USNA sticky https://www.serviceacademyforums.co...na-admissions-faqs-what-are-my-chances.61585/ )

    "Can I apply Early Decision to a civilian college and still apply to USNA?

    If you want to attend USNA, do NOT apply Early Decision to a civilian school. [Early Decision is the mutually binding program where you agree to attend the school if accepted.] The reason is that, if you are accepted to that civilian school under the ED program, USNA will require you to withdraw your application from USNA.

    It does not matter what the civilian school says. USNA is a member of the NACAC (National Association for College Admission Counseling) and must abide by their rules, which require you to commit to your ED school and withdraw applications from all other colleges. There is apparently no exception for SAs.

    This does NOT apply to Early Action programs, which are not binding. I don't know whether this rule applies to the other SAs -- you would need to check with their Admissions office."
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
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