How long does out-processing take? How to expedite?

OP, best of luck. I understand your frustration as your decision has been made and you are anxious to move along with life. But, even as a doolie you realize that the military works at its own speed.

Blue Baron, deep breathe. Attrition happens. All you can do is prepare, know what you are getting into, want to be an officer and work hard. You won’t know everything and can’t prepare for everything. It’s part of the deal. Learning to deal with uncertainty while under stress and making good decisions. It’s why SAs like athletes, those who have pushed themselves in classes and those who have demonstrated leadership. It’s because those traits carry over and grow while at a SA.
 
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Ironically, this evening I received an email stating that my Form 34 was signed and I am good to start working my way out tomorrow.
However, I wanted to clarify some things that I saw pop up in the discussion.

Although I am frustrated that it has taken so long, my intent for writing the last part of my initial post was not to get pity. When I was researching how long out-processing would take I found stories of people getting out between a few days and a month, but the overall message I received was to listen to the timeline my chain of command gave me and follow that. However, my experience was inconsistent with both those lessons, so I wanted to share my experience with the internet to help possible future out-processing cadets better know what to expect.

I understand that USAFA has invested in me and had a right to control how I leave as soon as I stepped off the bus in basic, but I am frustrated by the fact that they continued to break the time hacks they set for themselves. I think a month and a half is a bit long for how long out-processing should take, but I would have been happier with it had I not expected to be out in no later than a month to begin with. In addition, the longer they have me stay here, the more they use taxpayer money to invest in me, and that makes me uncomfortable.

I also wrote the last part of that initial post with vague hope that one of my chain of command would come across it and help me along the process, given that my out-processing has taken longer than I have heard of anyone else's taking. However, now that my paperwork is signed that is no longer a concern of mine.
 
BBBRRRTT. I'm not going to chastise you for your initial reply. Enough people already expressed that feeling. And navyhoops accurately explained the facts and your ignorance on the subject. And no, ignorance is not a negative connotation. It simply means you don't know. And that's fine. I don't know everything either. I am ignorant of certain things. Which leads into my main points I want to make in this thread.

POINT 1: EVERY, and I mean EVERY appointee who gets accepted to the academies and stands on those footsteps on day-1; is IGNORANT of the academy and what they got themselves into. Some appointees may have an easier time adapting than others; e.g. Brats and Team Jocks. But even the Brats who many have lived their whole live in and around the military, are also ignorant of what they got themselves into. You don't know the academy until you're actually there. All the alumni, grads, and current students can answer all the questions you may have about the academies; but you'll still be ignorant of what you got yourself into until you're actually there.

POINT 2: A person who drops out of the academy, does not lock out that slot for the next 4 years. Each senator/representative is allowed 5 of their nominees at the academy at the same time. (Appointments charged to them). If an individual becomes unqualified, quits, or gets kicked out, the senator/representative can appoint more than one person the next year. There are quite a few senators/representatives who have had 2 slates of nominees they put up because they had open slots because of people who quit, became disqualified, or were kicked out.

POINT 3: This is the most important point. The applicant who received an appointment to the academy, EARNED IT!!! The vast majority busted their a$$ to get that appointment. They are the ones who for 4, 8, 12 years busted their butt to get stellar grades. Gave hundreds of volunteer hours to their community and less fortunate. They are the ones who were involved in team activities, leadership positions, etc. They are the ones who gave up a more leisurely social life to make themselves competitive to universities and the academies. Not their parents. Not their teachers. Not their counselors. BUT THEM!!!! They EARNED THIS APPOINTMENT. And as such, they have every right in the world, to do with that appointment, ANYTHING they WANT TO with it. If they don't want to show up on I-Day; THEY EARNED THAT RIGHT. If they feel during or after Basic Training, that the military environment and methods aren't for them, and they want to leave; THEY EARNED THAT RIGHT. If during the academic year; whether it's the first semester or 4th semester; that the academics and environment for academics isn't for them, and they want to leave, then "THEY EARNED THAT RIGHT". They don't owe you, me, their parent, or ANY of the other applicants who didn't receive an appointment ANYTHING!!! This is THEIR APPOINTMENT. They have every right to do with it whatever they want. THEY EARNED THAT RIGHT!!!

And as navyhoops accurately pointed out, the academies understand this and take this all into consideration when giving appointment. For what it's worth. during the time of the academy classes of 2008 - 2012, the academy would OFFER approximately 1700 appointments. Because they KNEW that 500 people would turn down the appointment. YES, approximately 30% offers would be turned down. The appointment pool isn't made up entirely of kids who want the academies as their #1 school. We talk about BACK UP SCHOOL when you apply. Many times, the academies are an applicant's backup, 2nd choice, Plan-B school. Also, of the 1200 +/- appointees that do make it to the academy, the academy knows FOR A FACT; that approximately 200 of them are going to quit or get kicked out before their 4 years is over. The average graduation class is around 1000 cadets.

And while you're talking about that "Waitlisted" applicant who would have REALLY APPRECIATED having that slot; let me NOT TELL YOU about ALL of the appointees that I, other ALO's, and other people on this forum know, who (Always wanted the academy my whole life) (Was in JrROTC, Scout, CAP, got the billy mitchell, eagle scout etc.) (Was the most gung ho applicant during their senior year of high school and got an EARLY APPOINTMENT to the academy)..............etc........... And how many of these "TOP-10%" appointees were ignorant, had no idea what they were getting into, and QUIT in the first year. So even that WAITLISTED person, had the academy been able to see the future on the original poster of this thread, and chose the waitlisted person instead......... there is no guarantee that the waitlisted person wouldn't have quit in the first semester either.

So for ALL of you who think it's WRONG for a person to quit the academy, let me just say one final thing. "THEY EARNED THAT RIGHT"!!! Not you, or their parents, or their teachers, etc. THEY DID!!! They are the ones that put in the time and effort to become competitive and get selected. They have every right to change their mind. THEY EARNED THAT RIGHT!!!
 
@Christcorp , thanks for the food for thought.

Regarding point 1, what are we missing from all the documentaries, videos in youtube, the Curriculum Handbook, all the asking and info online?
 
Christcorp said:
. YES, approximately 30% offers would be turned down. The appointment pool isn't made up entirely of kids who want the academies as their #1 school. We talk about BACK UP SCHOOL when you apply. Many times, the academies are an applicant's backup, 2nd choice, Plan-B school.
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Why?
 
The Blue Baron said:
@Christcorp , thanks for the food for thought.

Regarding point 1, what are we missing from all the documentaries, videos in youtube, the Curriculum Handbook, all the asking and info online?
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There is nothing missing. No one is going to give you the magic formula because there isn’t one. A SA is makes for very long days. It’s a grind. For some they realize the atmosphere isn’t for there or they don’t want to serve after all. As christcorp mentioned, even kids who were raised their entire lives as military dependents, it’s still a wake up to many. Its why we say to go in shape because it allows focus on the other parts. It’s why we say to really focus on math, chemistry and physics as those tend to be tough classss early on that trip many up. The 7 Ps... prior proper preparation prevents piss poor performance.
 
AROTC-dad said:
Ivy league schools are sometimes plan A for some students. Others get full ride scholarships to regular colleges with no military obligation. Many other reasons.
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AROTC-dad is absolutely right. A SA isn’t a good fit for everyone. Some want to study other things, have more freedom, etc. It’s all personal choice.
 
AROTC-dad said:
BBBRRRTT said:
.. I am positive our wait listed recruit would have enjoyed your slot.
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No one can say with absolute certainty that your recruit might not have also had the same outcome.

What purpose did your remark have except to convey guilt and bitterness?
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Initially, I just typed the very first thought that came to mind, I like doing it that way (like responding to a blot test)...... But........ the edgy comments did blow this thread up, and I have to think (in my own little online forum world) that it caught some brasses attention and the paperwork went through in a matter of hours. OK..... keyboard warriors let me know how none of the brass read this forum and tell me about how they are all so busy leading, 100's of thousands of troops on dozens of bases around the world...... I get it they are super heros:)
 
BBBRRRTT said:
AROTC-dad said:
BBBRRRTT said:
.. I am positive our wait listed recruit would have enjoyed your slot.
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No one can say with absolute certainty that your recruit might not have also had the same outcome.

What purpose did your remark have except to convey guilt and bitterness?
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Initially, I just typed the very first thought that came to mind, I like doing it that way (like responding to a blot test)...... But........ the edgy comments did blow this thread up, and I have to think (in my own little online forum world) that it caught some brasses attention and the paperwork went through in a matter of hours. OK..... keyboard warriors let me know how none of the brass read this forum and tell me about how they are all so busy leading, 100's of thousands of troops on dozens of bases around the world...... I get it they are super heros:)
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I won't try to speak for the other services but the general Navy "brass" does not read this site. There area few other sites that they do read IF they are people who read online fora (there are some). There are a few like the USNI and Commander Salamander that are broadly Navy related sites and then there are specific warfare community sites within the principal communities of Air, Surface and Subs. I am a frequent poster on one of the latter group and we have several flag officers who post regularly along with many O5's and O6's.
 
@Tomorrow Can you share anything about why you decided to leave for future applicants? Why did you apply/accept and what was different than you thought?
 
As the mom of a DS who did not receive an appointment last year, I understand BBBRRRTT's knee jerk reaction to the question. With that said, I can not condone the response. I give Tomorrow a lot of respect for realizing that the military is not the lifestyle they want to continue. And I wish Tomorrow the best of luck and hope this experience helps clarify whatever it is they are looking for in life.
My DS is now attending an academy prep program and reapplying. He is thriving in the environment and is even more convinced this is the path he wants to pursue. He shared a story with me that he experienced on his candidate weekend at academy. He said the cadet he mirrored said, 'the highs are really high and the lows are really low.' I asked my son if he felt the same in his experience, he said no, the highs are high but, for him, the lows were not that bad. (Now, he does realize that his prep program is not as intense as an academy.) He said there are cadets in his program who are very unhappy and will not be pursuing an academy appointment (and some of these are academy sponsored). We were devastated when our DS did not receive an appointment but now, we see it as a blessing in disguise. I now feel that every student should do a prep program, it builds a stronger and prepared cadet and therefore, a more confident cadet. My, long winded, point being, Tomorrow made a life decision that they were not prepared to make at age 17/18. Heck, I'm almost 50 and still have trouble making life decisions!
 
..but for the 200 slots that drop, I can say over the last 5 years if those 200 did not drop out, there might not be a 1000 pilot shortage in the usaf.


There has never been a shortage of people wanting to be a pilot. If the Air Force Academy tripled in size or was reduced by 50%, you would have the exact same shortage. If the AFA disppeared tommorrow, the slack would be made up by Rotc and OCS/OTS. Trust me, there are plenty of people in Rotc and AD who want to be pilots and dont get a spot. The shortage problem was created by the the Air Force. First because they cant enough people through UPT as it is limited to 4 bases (really three as the fourth is for Nato) and secondly senior pilots are quiting because how they feel the AF treats them. It doesnt hurt that the airlines are hiring like crazy and paying well.
 
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The Blue Baron said:
Regarding point 1, what are we missing from all the documentaries, videos in youtube, the Curriculum Handbook, all the asking and info online?
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NavyHoops said:
There is nothing missing. No one is going to give you the magic formula because there isn’t one. A SA is makes for very long days. It’s a grind
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^ This...you can watch all the Youtube videos, do social media, even vist a Service Academy, but until you raise that right hand and they close the doors behind you (or whatever they do at USAFA), you will not know what its like. Many glamorize attending a Service Academy, and realize (like a steam bath), once you are in , its not so hot. (Hat tip and credit to author David Poyer, Return of Philo Mcgiffen- I think). Others will let the sense of time get to them -there is plenty of "suck", even when you are an upperclass, and looking ahead at 4 years of suck is tough at times. I never seriously thought of leaving, but certainly understand why some people would, and respect the courage of those that made the difficult decision. Until you have been in those shoes, no one should second guess or criticize those that leave a service academy, or think that they were better qualified or should have had that slot.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
The Blue Baron said:
Regarding point 1, what are we missing from all the documentaries, videos in youtube, the Curriculum Handbook, all the asking and info online?
Click to expand...

NavyHoops said:
There is nothing missing. No one is going to give you the magic formula because there isn’t one. A SA is makes for very long days. It’s a grind
Click to expand...

^ This...you can watch all the Youtube videos, do social media, even vist a Service Academy, but until you raise that right hand and they close the doors behind you (or whatever they do at USAFA), you will not know what its like. Many glamorize attending a Service Academy, and realize (like a steam bath), once you are in , its not so hot. (Hat tip and credit to author David Poyer, Return of Philo Mcgiffen- I think). Others will let the sense of time get to them -there is plenty of "suck", even when you are an upperclass, and looking ahead at 4 years of suck is tough at times. I never seriously thought of leaving, but certainly understand why some people would, and respect the courage of those that made the difficult decision. Until you have been in those shoes, no one should second guess or criticize those that leave a service academy, or think that they were better qualified or should have had that slot.
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Everyone reacts differently to these kind of things. My son who did AF Rotc thought it was funny when they would yell at him (not that he let them know that). I am sure others take it seriously and get upset by it. Everyone is differnt and their personality (if that is the right word) will take this stimuli differently. Doesnt make them good or bad, it just is
 
Old Navy BGO said:
This...you can watch all the Youtube videos, do social media, even vist a Service Academy, but until you raise that right hand and they close the doors behind you (or whatever they do at USAFA), you will not know what its like.
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Ominous but cool in a chilling way.
 
Tigermom3 said:
As the mom of a DS who did not receive an appointment last year, I understand BBBRRRTT's knee jerk reaction to the question. With that said, I can not condone the response. I give Tomorrow a lot of respect for realizing that the military is not the lifestyle they want to continue. And I wish Tomorrow the best of luck and hope this experience helps clarify whatever it is they are looking for in life.
My DS is now attending an academy prep program and reapplying. He is thriving in the environment and is even more convinced this is the path he wants to pursue. He shared a story with me that he experienced on his candidate weekend at academy. He said the cadet he mirrored said, 'the highs are really high and the lows are really low.' I asked my son if he felt the same in his experience, he said no, the highs are high but, for him, the lows were not that bad. (Now, he does realize that his prep program is not as intense as an academy.) He said there are cadets in his program who are very unhappy and will not be pursuing an academy appointment (and some of these are academy sponsored). We were devastated when our DS did not receive an appointment but now, we see it as a blessing in disguise. I now feel that every student should do a prep program, it builds a stronger and prepared cadet and therefore, a more confident cadet. My, long winded, point being, Tomorrow made a life decision that they were not prepared to make at age 17/18. Heck, I'm almost 50 and still have trouble making life decisions!
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I agree with you Tigermom3, I don't even condone what I said yesterday.....I have my knee "jerk" moments:) To Tomorrow, I sincerely apologize for my crass comments.
 
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