How much can being white hurt you in admissions?

[ThomasJ]

I have read and heard about how being a white male can be a disadvantage in service academy admissions, and college admissions in general. So I have two questions.
1. Is this true?
2. If yes, is there an option that says something like "prefer not to state," and would it be beneficial?
Thanks.

 

[usmadata]

Yes, it's true. But not as much as if you were Asian.
https://usmadata.com/2018/06/10/on-diversity-as-strength/ to start
You need 70-100 SAT pts more than some more advantaged groups to be similarly competitive for admissions.

 

[A1Janitor]

If your WCS is lower than any race on your slate, it would be your lower WCS responsible and not the color of your skin.

 

[MidCakePa]

This much I believe from observing SA admissions and actions for several years as the father of two applicants — one who was successful and one who wasn’t: Whether or not you receive offer of appointment, your race will not be one of the main reasons.

 

[trad2026]

I'm glad someone started a thread for this because I've been pondering the same thing myself. I've read a lot that LOA's are given to one of the following:

a) candidates who are extremely high performing or
b) minority candidates (race and/or sex)

Now, I know someone can hypothetically fall into both categories and the Academies look for applicants who are both high-performing but also to meet their diversity quotas for each year.

It's quite clear that there are already different standards for men and women (in the CFA) but there must also be different standards for blacks, hispanics, and asians during the admissions process.

Hypothetically, if USMA or another service academy, needed a few more black students to increase their black admissions stats for the year, they might deny the spots to several white applicants who had better test scores, better CFA scores, or better WCS. UNLESS, by being a certain race or sex, you get extra points to your WCS.

As a black person, I don't find my race to be a military or strategic benefit. I don't think that by being black helps me to better lead others.

Obviously this is a societal issue as mentioned by the OP with civilian schools having the same race-based admissions systems in place. But I find them to be quite offensive. I look at what I have accomplished but can't feel any sense of true achievement because the world has lowered the bar for me just because of my race. There really is no equality and anywhere I end up I will inevitably feel like I was offered an appointment/ acceptance because I am black and somehow that makes me more qualified.

I want to serve, I want to do great things but like Justice Clarence Thomas said, "I learned the hard way that a law degree from Yale meant one thing for white graduates and another for blacks, no matter how much any one denied it" and "I'd graduated from one of America's top law schools, but racial preference had robbed my achievement of its true value."

 

[usmadata]

I'm glad someone started a thread for this because I've been pondering the same thing myself. I've read a lot that LOA's are given to one of the following:

a) candidates who are extremely high performing or
b) minority candidates (race and/or sex)

Now, I know someone can hypothetically fall into both categories and the Academies look for applicants who are both high-performing but also to meet their diversity quotas for each year.

It's quite clear that there are already different standards for men and women (in the CFA) but there must also be different standards for blacks, hispanics, and asians during the admissions process.

Hypothetically, if USMA or another service academy, needed a few more black students to increase their black admissions stats for the year, they might deny the spots to several white applicants who had better test scores, better CFA scores, or better WCS. UNLESS, by being a certain race or sex, you get extra points to your WCS.

As a black person, I don't find my race to be a military or strategic benefit. I don't think that by being black helps me to better lead others.

Obviously this is a societal issue as mentioned by the OP with civilian schools having the same race-based admissions systems in place. But I find them to be quite offensive. I look at what I have accomplished but can't feel any sense of true achievement because the world has lowered the bar for me just because of my race. There really is no equality and anywhere I end up I will inevitably feel like I was offered an appointment/ acceptance because I am black and somehow that makes me more qualified.

I want to serve, I want to do great things but like Justice Clarence Thomas said, "I learned the hard way that a law degree from Yale meant one thing for white graduates and another for blacks, no matter how much any one denied it" and "I'd graduated from one of America's top law schools, but racial preference had robbed my achievement of its true value."

"My Grandfather's Son", amazing book.

if the generals thought the way you do, we wouldn't even be having this discussion

but they don't.

 

[A1Janitor]

We don’t know who gets LOAs and for what reason. Anything else is speculation.

The people who are appointed earned it.

 

[MidCakePa]

I've read a lot that LOA's are given to one of the following:

a) candidates who are extremely high performing or
b) minority candidates (race and/or sex)

The SAs have specific criteria for LOAs. Whatever it is, they aren’t telling. Unless someone has actually been in the room when LOAs have been decided, take what they say with a sizable grain of salt.

With all due respect, the cheapest thing in the world is “I heard that…”

 

[Capt MJ]

Scroll down at this link to see what USNA says about Letters of Assurance. Assess with a judicious eye and ear any anecdotal, third-hand or whatever info you hear or read at unofficial sources, including unofficial Internet forums like this one.

For USNA, it is a flexible tool they can use any way they choose during class-building.

Admissions

Admissions page for The Blue and Gold Book at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Aug 11 11:11:43 EDT 2022.

www.usna.edu

 

[Skipper07]

The officer corps must be representative of the enlisted ranks, and commissioning programs will do whatever they damn well please to ensure that.

 

[FiveByFive]

Having a hard time believing this is even a topic.

 

[Heatherg21]

Echoing what @Skipper07 said. Admissions sources will do what they will. Using any manner of demographics and skill and experience necessary to complete a holistic class of those who represent those who will lead. And they should represent the demographics of those they lead. And be immensely qualified.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

Does being a person of color help make you a better officer?

doubtful,

But this is a guess since as a while enlisted guy who served only a few years during and in VN I virtually never saw any officers of color that I served with,.

most all the nco s were white. All the officers I had were white.

We certainly had people of color walking point on a recon team. Some were killed. One of our 4 MOHs was awarded to a Marine of color.

But absolutely no one in lower mid or upper management that I remembe.

I do wonder what our black Marines thought of seeing absolutely no one that looked like them in the upper ranks?

Utter racism no doubt.

As a white father and grandfather of a grad and grandchild in the process now do I feel my kids were disadvantaged because kids of color might get in with lower grades and test scores?

Good heavens no not at all


My kids were recruited athletics.

If you want to point at someone who took “your” more deserving slot you can point at them.

Mine were not admitted because of great grades or sat s.

They were admitted because the SA badly wanted them,


The world is often unfair

Take advantage of it when you can

Us white boys certainly did when everything was in our favor.

 

[justdoit19]

“I heard that…” and “I’ve read that…” are really, realllyyyyyy bad sources of info. Over the 4 yrs I’ve been involved as a USNA parent, and watched from the cheap seats, there have been visible strides put in place to create a more diverse (in all underrepresented demographisclass. And that includes all underrepresented demographics. Not ‘just skin color’.

I’ve seen (and heard talks in trainings I’ve attended recently) admissions outreach programs to underrepresented demo’s, a new program just this year. This is AWESOME. There are fantastic candidates in places hidden. I liken it to a treasure hunt….stuff washed up on the beach is easy to see. But there are also treasures (candidates) covered and hidden. Outreach to find those, and encouraging them to apply….this is the emphasis on how to add to a diverse brigade…spreading the word about USNA, so that there are more candidates applying, representing our diverse nation.

There is so much involved in an appointment (way beyond a normal college) that making a blanket statement about any part of the application process (including the nomination piece that is separate from the SA) will always be an inaccurate statement. Each individual person is looked at, in whole, in conjunction with that slate. And that process is never public, so we will never know ( now THERE is a best seller book 📕 idea…). It’s more under wraps than most things 😂

Yes there is a spot on the application for ‘prefers not to answer (or similar)’.

Look at prior years class profiles to see the breakdown of class composition.

Good luck to every candidate!

 

[USMCGrunt]

Even if you were able to get the definitive answer to your question what difference would it make?

Would your decision to apply be determined by the knowledge? If not, why ask it?

 

[OldAFRet]

Even if you were able to get the definitive answer to your question what difference would it make?

Would your decision to apply be determined by the knowledge? If not, why ask it?

You can always count on a jarhead to state the obvious, can't you?

I have to say, I strongly suspect this is a troll thread.

 

[usmadata]

“I heard that…” and “I’ve read that…” are really, realllyyyyyy bad sources of info. Over the 4 yrs I’ve been involved as a USNA parent, and watched from the cheap seats, there have been visible strides put in place to create a more diverse (in all underrepresented demographisclass. And that includes all underrepresented demographics. Not ‘just skin color’.

I’ve seen (and heard talks in trainings I’ve attended recently) admissions outreach programs to underrepresented demo’s, a new program just this year. This is AWESOME. There are fantastic candidates in places hidden. I liken it to a treasure hunt….stuff washed up on the beach is easy to see. But there are also treasures (candidates) covered and hidden. Outreach to find those, and encouraging them to apply….this is the emphasis on how to add to a diverse brigade…spreading the word about USNA, so that there are more candidates applying, representing our diverse nation.

There is so much involved in an appointment (way beyond a normal college) that making a blanket statement about any part of the application process (including the nomination piece that is separate from the SA) will always be an inaccurate statement. Each individual person is looked at, in whole, in conjunction with that slate. And that process is never public, so we will never know ( now THERE is a best seller book 📕 idea…). It’s more under wraps than most things 😂

Yes there is a spot on the application for ‘prefers not to answer (or similar)’.

Look at prior years class profiles to see the breakdown of class composition.

Good luck to every candidate!

Fortunately, we don't have to rely on "I heard that" and anecdotes. We have class applicant and admitted profiles for 20 years of west point classes at usmadata.com. It's very evident that USMA places strong preferences on *certain* minority racial backgrounds. Since class slots are limited, this means others are being shorted opportunity considering their ostensibly objective qualifications.

 

[A1Janitor]

Fortunately, we don't have to rely on "I heard that" and anecdotes. We have class applicant and admitted profiles for 20 years of west point classes at usmadata.com. It's very evident that USMA places strong preferences on *certain* minority racial backgrounds. Since class slots are limited, this means others are being shorted opportunity considering their ostensibly objective qualifications.

How do you know this?

Are you assuming all minorities on your slate aren’t as good as you? Or if a white person wins your slate, they were qualified?

 

[shock-n-awe]

How much can being white hurt you in admissions?​

Control what you can control. If race, sex, or any other demographic is or isn’t favored, one can’t change it.
Put your best self forward and let the chips fall where they may. That much you can control.

 

[usmadata]

How do you know this?

Are you assuming all minorities on your slate aren’t as good as you? Or if a white person wins your slate, they were qualified?

As mentioned, we started with looking at the actual applicant and admitted profiles. We looked at who USMA had the opportunity to admit and who actually ended up attending, year over year over year, and drew conclusions based on the mass quantitative data. We'd encourage reading the site. You're welcome to analyze the raw data yourself and present different findings. It takes a bit more effort than snapping provocative questions in a reply, but it's very illuminating as to what's going on in our Academy.