Initial thoughts on the first Army ROTC Scholarship board results

The scholarship process is a competition. As with all competitions, there are objective and subjective components. The standardized test is a quick (non subjective) way to rank candidates. I agree that GPA is difficult due to the variations in how schools calculate it. The CBEF is also not subjective. I have heard that +/- 400 scholarships were awarded during the 1st board. That means there are plenty more to be awarded during the future boards. I wouldn't overthink the process. As many have stated, it's not perfect - it is what it is.
 
JoeNavy89 said:
Bottom Line - the SAT/ACT scores trump all.
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It's part of the equation, but not the only part. The scholarship application has three parts, Academic/Leadership/Athletics. Don't presume that having a high SAT/ACT is a golden ticket. Throughout the process this year you'll see scholarship awardees with 24 ACT/1100SAT scores that receive a scholarship and some with much higher scores not receive an offer. A high test score can help overcome weakness in the other two legs of the application but if those other two sections are severely lacking, it's not going to be enough.
 
Jcleppe said:
It's part of the equation, but not the only part. The scholarship application has three parts, Academic/Leadership/Athletics. Don't presume that having a high SAT/ACT is a golden ticket. Throughout the process this year you'll see scholarship awardees with 24 ACT/1100SAT scores that receive a scholarship and some with much higher scores not receive an offer. A high test score can help overcome weakness in the other two legs of the application but if those other two sections are severely lacking, it's not going to be enough.
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All good points. I’m stating that the ACT/SAT is unbiased and everyone takes that same test, hence the importance of it. Now, if one scores a 35 and you’re a booger eating, mouth breathing, paste eater....that 35 isn’t going to help you. The services realize there’s great officers out there serving that didn’t have good grades, hence the whole man concept. It’s not a perfect system but nothing is. I think the boards get it right, more than they get it wrong.
 
Last year the CGs guidance was class rank trumped ACT/SAT. So a bad test wouldn't kill you on the board. The board looks at SAL (student athlete leader) so you can be weak in one area and still do well. Interview is important. Insist on the PMS doing it vs APMS or ROO.
 
Montana State Army ROTC said:
Last year the CGs guidance was class rank trumped ACT/SAT. So a bad test wouldn't kill you on the board. The board looks at SAL (student athlete leader) so you can be weak in one area and still do well. Interview is important. Insist on the PMS doing it vs APMS or ROO.
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That’s interesting....so a student who takes easy HS classes, pulls a 3.9 but scores a 23 ACT is looked more favorably than a student who challenges themselves with AP courses etc, gets a 3.4 but a 31 ACT?
 
In one aspect yes. But they loose interview and total points where AP classes and ACT matter. Its one data point. The board looks at the entire student record — SAL concept (student athlete leader). Thats why the results are sometimes all over and hard to predict. Eagle Scout, Boys State, multi sport Captain but low gpa and act can still equal a 4 yr scholarship.
 
JoeNavy89 said:
That’s interesting....so a student who takes easy HS classes, pulls a 3.9 but scores a 23 ACT is looked more favorably than a student who challenges themselves with AP courses etc, gets a 3.4 but a 31 ACT?
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I know not every school does this but many will factor in the rigor of course work, number of AP classes, into the class ranking equation.

I don't intend to get into a discussion about the merits of the SAT/ACT but there are many factors that come into play. A student that works hard, studies and challenges themselves to achieve a solid GPA and class rank will take the SAT?ACT along with everyone else. Some of these students and their parents can't afford the high priced Prep courses that are simply intended to raise test scores. Some of these course are inexpensive and basic that provide only slight if any benefit. Some of these courses can get very expensive and teach all the tricks to increase your score. Standardized test scores are not always a preview to how a student will perform in college. The military is wise not to make this the top priority but part of the whole equation.

My younger son got a 24 ACT and it took two tests to get that superscore, he did do AP courses and had a 3.6 GPA. He received a 4 year from the first board, he was very strong in all other areas of the application. I remember some told us that we should be concerned about his ability to survive college since his ACT was not very high. He completed college with a 3.7 GPA, completed flight school, over the last three years while being an Aviation Officer and spending much of that time going back and forth to Asia, he is just completing his Master's through the U. of OK with a 3.7GPA. Not bad for someone without a challenging Test score. My point is that test scores don't tell a complete picture, that's why the scholarship system works as it does.
 
JoeNavy89 said:
That’s interesting....so a student who takes easy HS classes, pulls a 3.9 but scores a 23 ACT is looked more favorably than a student who challenges themselves with AP courses etc, gets a 3.4 but a 31 ACT?
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I'm with you. Utterly absurd if true as stated.
 
franknd said:
I'm with you. Utterly absurd if true as stated.
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I have a feeling that the PMSs that are reviewing the applicants have a pretty good idea about what makes a good candidate. That is why everyone cringes with the "Chance Me" discussions. There are only a few people who post on this board that have actual insight into the decision making process (existing and past PMSs that have served on a review board or ROOs ). My guess is that the majority of the candidates that are selected are closer to the 30 ACT than 24 and 3.9 than 3.4 - just my guess.
 
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JoeNavy89 said:
Clearly the board was advised that “the line” they were looking for was 30 ACT and above. IMHO the ONLY thing that is not biased on any ROTC/SA application is the SAT/ACT score. Everything else is highly subjective..the interview (completely subjective - it can be 3-5 mins or 30 mins plus), physical fitness scores....I imagine many of the scores are inflated and not scored/judged to real Army PT standards. GPA - so much deviation in high schools. The essay...it’s probably quickly scanned. Bottom Line - the SAT/ACT scores trump all.
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I had a 26 composite and 28 superscore
 
EEBTTF said:
I have a feeling that the PMSs that are reviewing the applicants have a pretty good idea about what makes a good candidate. That is why everyone cringes with the "Chance Me" discussions. There are only a few people who post on this board that have actual insight into the decision making process (existing and past PMSs that have served on a review board or ROOs ). My guess is that the majority of the candidates that are selected are closer to the 30 ACT than 24 and 3.9 than 3.4 - just my guess.
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Spot on. PMS’s on the board know what they are doing and what they are looking for: Strong SAL candidates.
 
Montana State Army ROTC said:
Last year the CGs guidance was class rank trumped ACT/SAT. So a bad test wouldn't kill you on the board. The board looks at SAL (student athlete leader) so you can be weak in one area and still do well. Interview is important. Insist on the PMS doing it vs APMS or ROO.
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I am curious as to why you recommend the PMS over the APMS or ROO for the interview.
 
galioto5 said:
I am curious as to why you recommend the PMS over the APMS or ROO for the interview.
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Carries more weight with a board of PMS’s. ROOs are self serving and will give everyone 200. APMS’s don’t always know what cadets/officers really should have and may have only 5-6 years of experience. PMS’s are picked for a reason.
 
Montana State Army ROTC said:
Carries more weight with a board of PMS’s. ROOs are self serving and will give everyone 200. APMS’s don’t always know what cadets/officers really should have and may have only 5-6 years of experience. PMS’s are picked for a reason.
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That is disappointing to read- when my son scheduled his interview at one of his top choices he was not given the option. He was told the interview went well and now I feel disheartened.
 
Montana State Army ROTC said:
Carries more weight with a board of PMS’s. ROOs are self serving and will give everyone 200. APMS’s don’t always know what cadets/officers really should have and may have only 5-6 years of experience. PMS’s are picked for a reason.
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Do you mean they’re self-serving because they’re trying to get the kid to come to their university? But you can interview on any campus.... Would they be self-serving if the candidate had no intention of going to school there?
 
I think he was speaking more of the way a board of PMS's might view it. I'm sure he's not knocking the ROOs. In fact I believe @Montana State Army ROTC is an ROO. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. And just because it's called a PMS interview doesn't mean it isn't delegated to someone. An ROO would be a terrific person to act in the PMS's stead.
 
So many variables at the interview. My DS emailed the ROO and asked how to schedule the interview with the PMS. They advised him to call the secretary to schedule the PMS interview, which he did. Unfortunately the secretary didn’t tell him that she was scheduling him to interview with the assistant PMS. He found out when he got there and it was the assistant PMS’s first interview ever. A little awkward, but he adapted and ultimately the interview went fine. Life is full of surprises, just make the best of it and move forward. For those yet to schedule your interview, just make sure to confirm you will be interviewing with the PMS.
 
kinnem said:
In fact I believe @Montana State Army ROTC is an ROO
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I believe he is a PMS.

See his post where he asks someone to contact his ROO:

AROTC 3 Year Winner 1st year ?

Would love input and advice from others here. DS was awarded a 3 year scholarship the last board. Has anyone had success presenting this to schools to help with the first year. Possibly seeking in state tuition the first year, room and board, etc from the just the university . I know it's...
www.serviceacademyforums.com
 
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