Is It Possible to Reapply to SA while Cadet at Another

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by Jupiter, Jan 8, 2018.

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  1. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    This is a hypothetical question. It didn't happen but it can happen because you did not get an Appointment or because you did not get a nomination, despite being competitive otherwise. Sometimes you don't get nominated to your first choice but get nominated to your 2nd or 3rd choice SA. Not that one SA is superior to another, but simply it is not the service or SA of your first choice, and you realize this as you get to know each programs better through visits and interaction. But you got nominated to your latter choice which could have been your first choice in the beginning. This happens, you begin leaning toward one SA but to that SA you did not get a nomination.

    So if you enroll as a Cadet at your second choice SA, can you reapply to the SA you did not get appointment while a cadet at an SA? Will your current SA allow that to happen? Will your congressman and senators nominate current cadets already attending one SA.

    Another scenario. If you are attending USCGA, the only SA that does not select with Nomination, if you enroll there and want to enroll in another SA that requires nomination, will the CGA allow you to reapply to the SA you wish to enroll? Similarly, will your Rep and Senators consider you for nomination if you are already attending CGA?
     
  2. time2

    time2 10-Year Member

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  3. AirsoftRanger

    AirsoftRanger Member

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    It is a well known fact that MOCs always fill their USMA slots first, Air Force second, and USNA last - check wikipedia. Even tho they will not tell you, all MOCs fill their USMA slots before Christmas; this is known as the MOC Nice List. Applicants who do not place USMA as their number one choice are placed by MOCs on the Mealy Mouthed list. In the entire history of the Corps of Cadets, there has not been one USMA cadet appointed who listed USMA as anything other than their first choice. Similarly, there has never been one single USMA cadet who has transferred to another Service Academy. Successfully, that is. Alive. Except a few who insisted on Marine Option. And they cried when the left the plain....
     
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  4. GoArmy2023

    GoArmy2023 Member

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    Can you explain the MOC proccess?
    I know that there is a principal nomination and I think that is what you are referring to.
    I know there is also competitive slots, based on WCS and the MOC ranking?
     
  5. AirsoftRanger

    AirsoftRanger Member

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    MOC nominations vary from state to state. 2 years ago our district had 10 USMA nominations but zero appointments. our district forfeits any principal nomination and gives it away to the admissions committee.
    just be west point material from here on out, construct that chin up bar in the rafters, apply early, complete fitness test early, show up for your MOC interview with a suit, smile, and a ready handshake. always remember, there is only one Service Academy.
     
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  6. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    Thank you. Your responses are very clear and very helpful. I guess, if you really want to pursue one service because that's the service you want, then you should enroll in ROTC if you have that option, then reapply through ROTC Nomination. Right?

    One more question. If you accept your second choice SA by May 1, and your first choice SA accepts you after May 1 with a VP Nomination, is it possible to switch your enrollment to SA first choice even if you already accepted your SA second choice on May 1? If you intend to do this, should you tell the first choice SA admissions officer, this is what you will do if given an offer to enroll? Is this legal? Can this be done? Are there any penalties? Want to be sure what the options are if such situation is presented. And want to be transparent with the SAs upfront. Thank you in advance for your insights.
     
  7. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American 5-Year Member

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    While you will get lots of great advice here on the forum, you need to realize that people will often respond with their opinions. They may or may not be factual.

    Now mine are always correct, but you'll need to do your own research in many cases to verify. :)

    USMA, USNA, USAFA, etc. loyalists will tend to believe their academy is best.
     
  8. AirsoftRanger

    AirsoftRanger Member

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    spammer. report to moderator
    one corp. one academy. one uniform.
     
  9. AirsoftRanger

    AirsoftRanger Member

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    ROTC is plan D. USMA should be plan A, B, and C.
    Since we of course assume your first choice is USMA, then, if somehow you are accepted by USNA, and then after may 1, by USMA, then, you can certainly attend USMA but you will be in big trouble for even considering USNA and the Cadre on R day will give you a good dunking in the Hudson River.
     
  10. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American 5-Year Member

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    http://joyreactor.com/post/2696173
     
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  11. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    Thank you all for your inputs. Decision to which SA is going to be more on the service first, then SA and its proud culture and fraternity, during and after graduation, and long term equity value of the SA. I have completed my due diligence on the Army and loved it since I was in primary school. I grew up around it. I am more of a grunt today. I like the Air Force and the Navy for their service and missions they do, and the cool toys these services have. However, I don't know what civilian career I can transition into from the Air Force and the Navy if I did Pilot, or if I did something technical. I can see the trajectory towards the defense industry or the United Airlines, but that appears too adjacent and may limit the top c-suite leadership roles in fortune 500 companies. I don't know the Navy and Air Force as much as the Army. I did my rounds last summer at seminars and SLE and I am doing further rounds this Winter through visits to CVW including visits to ROTC Detachments, BNs, and Units. So before commitment to which service, I am completely convinced I am making the right service choice. That is my first gate, service first, then the SA or ROTC. If I don't get Appointed to the SA I wish to enroll, then I will choose the ROTC option in that service. This is what I gather from the advice I read on this thread. Please feel free to add your thoughts. Once again, thank you to all.
     
  12. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    President George H.W. Bush was a Navy pilot. He did ok.

    Coach K is a USMA grad. He seems to be doing well. I would suspect his compensation is respectable.

    The company I work for now has a USNA grad as CEO. The one I used to work for has a former AF officer as CEO, and a former Navy officer as COO. Not defense. My former company is Fortune 200.

    SA, ROTC, OCS/OTS all produce “c-suiters.”

    There are many former military officers from all services in executive positions at all levels in a wide variety of industries, professions and career fields, including politics and entrepreneurial pursuits. Not just defense. The leadership and resource management skills learned as a junior, mid-grade or senior officer provide a solid launching pad at any transition point.

    Pilots know how to do more than fly a plane. A solid technical base in today’s world can only help.

    If you or someone you know has a LinkedIn account, you can do an advanced search by selecting a company and a school (USNA, etc.) and see how many grads pop up and in what jobs.


    Edit: And I completely overlooked my own DH. Navy pilot. USNA. Full career. Went into retail banking at a large national bank, climbed to SVP in 3 years overseeing a region of branches, then transitioned to business banking and became Pres/CEO of a regional bank group. Why was he hired? Demonstrated ability to lead, manage resources, think and plan strategically, execute tactics, make decisions, build high-performing teams, be accountable and ethical. Same thing he did in uniform. Learned the banking business as he went. People are always surprised how fast military vets can learn civilian jobs. When you change jobs every 2-3 years, you gain that skill. Not Fortune 500, but adequately compensated...
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  13. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator 5-Year Member

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    +1 Capt MJ.

    I am all about Army, but I completely disagree about AF and Navy preparing someone "less" for an executive position. You are saying something pretty offensive here to everyone affiliated with the AF, Navy, Marines, and CG.

    This link shows Fortune 500 CEO's from multiple military branches:
    vhttp://www.businessinsider.com/15-fortune-500-ceos-who-got-their-start-in-the-military-2015-8/#lumetra-tom-dent-9
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  14. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    I'm glad I provoked a conversation on this topic as I wanted to get a sense of perception of the brand of each SAs from people. And I know this is an open topic that can invite many point of views by Academy grads and others alike. I'm sure you have CEOs and Board Room Directors serving the fortune 500 companies from all Academies. But each SAs bring different perception to people, so that's what I want to know, not so much on facts that back up each Academy brands. I should have also made myself bit more clear on service. I wanted to know more about the transition people made from SAs not from Yale or Harvard ROTC. One easy way to look at this is the perception Harvard has vs. Yale vs. Princeton vs. Stanford, vs Columbia vs Wharton. Each brands have different perception by the public and hiring organizations. All the SAs and the top US colleges are excellent and world-class, but they garner different brand perception. For example, this is fact and perception, Yale and Harvard produce the most American presidents and Rhode Scholars And they are the America's oldest and wealthiest higher education. William & Mary, great college and is the second oldest in America but it does not have the wealth and peer prestige as HY. Even corporations have this perception for example: P&G produce the best consumer products and brand trained managers. McDonalds is the King of Burgers. Coca Cola is the King of Soft Drinks. Amazon is the standard of E-Commerce. Walmart is the king of retail. Facebook is the king of social media. Googles is the standard of search that surpassed Yahoo just over a decade ago. Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley bankers move on to top jobs in financial institutions. Booz Allen & Hamilton recruit many prior service into consulting roles. McKinsey, Bain, BCG recruit top graduates from America's best colleges and MBA programs. Aside from many hard facts, there is that soft market perception that builds on brand equity of each Academies. And Academy grads from each SAs.
     
  15. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    I spent 10 years consulting in around DC and left that world to work for a fortune 75 company with over 200k employees. In the largest level department we report to I work with a good chunk of veterans. We have 3 USNA grads and 4 USMA at my location. Myself and one other USNA grad were selected for an executive level development program. The 4 USMA grads are all friends of mine and great people and employees. In fact all 7 of us help each other out and have lunch once a month. Having spent time in the beltway and now another city, I have never heard someone say SA X is more prestigious than Y. It’s about taking advantage of all the opportunities presented to become the best officer. Then taking what you learned there selling it and becoming a great employee when you leave the service. You want to know how many of my Marines cared where I went to school? None. Want to know how many of my employees care where I went to college (oh and they all have degrees and a few with grad degrees)? None. Being a good officer and boss has a lot in common... take care of your people, know your job, be innovative, be proactive, communicate well, eliminate the BS.

    I would say worry less about what SA has greater prestige and pick the service that you want. Any SA will prepare you very well for a career. My friends from USNA are all extremely successful. Their careers range from teachers (where some are doing incredible work with kids that is unbelievable) to successful business men and women (from working with Fortune 100 companies to entrepreneurs) to rising through politics. Their brand is what they bring to the table. Sure a SA background helped develop that brand, but it’s about taking advantage of what opportunities are there. I don’t think my USMA peers are viewed differently than my USNA peers at work. We are all seen as strong leaders who work hard, solve problems, who know how to lead people. But each of us has our own unique strengths too. We also each have our own career goals. One of our USMA grads is a relatively new Army retiree and on his second career. He doesn’t want to rise to the top levels but do something he enjoys for 5 more years and then stop working. Focus on service first, then what commissioning program will get you there.
     
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  16. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    Thank you!
     
  17. AirsoftRanger

    AirsoftRanger Member

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    Suits vs Scrubs. Be a winner. Be a scrub.
     
  18. keeperkat90

    keeperkat90 Member

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    I would say that if you are very drawn towards one branch of service, finish out your time at your current Academy and cross commission to the other branch. Say your at wp and you want to be in the Air Force, then cross commission. Or visa versa
    Our schools are very similar for academics, just different main focuses.
    C/o 2018 usafa