Is no news bad news?

[fritz]

First of all, the process for seeking an appointment to one of our SA is uniquely different than the typical college app., which means they are much more invested in this than they are for any other application and as such it deserves special consideration.

Secondly, the USAFA is in my opinion no where near on par with Stanford. They are two entirely different outcomes and educations and requirements to get in so for you to even make that statement is not fair to either institution.

Look at the SAT/ACT scores on the Stanford site and the USAFA site.

Stanford: 76% of class over 700 on math, 69% over 700 on verb, 85% of class over 30 on ACT
USAFA: ave. 666 on math, ave. 640 on verb ave. 30 on ACT.

This is our second time through, by the way, my son wanted to go here in the worst way and its no easier the second time, except that you will have a much better plan B, as my son did, and can more easily move on with your future.
I know that it appears that all of the cadidates who apply are the best and the brightest and we think that theres 2000 of the top students in the country on the short list, but thats not true either. They are highly motivated and wonderful young people who want something different than most. Its an inexact science and I still believe that they could have released the bulk of these "not-selected letters a month ago.

 

[Christcorp]

Fritz; you make some excellent points and recommendations. Not sure if I'd agree that academy applicants are more "invested" than they are for a traditional school. Believe it or not; not everyone who applies to the academy have it as their first choice. To many; it's just another college application.... that happens to be a "Full Ride Scholarship".

You also used stats whereby you said a PERCENTAGE of Stanford was OVER a specific SAT/ACT score; but you said the AVERAGE Cadet scores were "X" which means you're using 100% of cadets to come up with 666/640/and 30 ACT. Point is: You'll also find a large percentage of academy cadets who broke the 700 on their SAT scores and 30 on their ACT scores. Just pointing out that you aren't using the same stats when comparing the academy with stanford.

And believe it or not, the academy can't really give out it's "Not-Selected" that early. Most of the 12,000+ original applicants who "Aren't Eligible" found out 3-5 months ago. The final cut of "Qualified Candidates" is usually in the 2500-3000 mark. ANY of these individuals could receive an appointment to the academies. Unfortunately, because of Title 10 of the US Code, part of the diversity factor is that ALL TAXPAYERS be represented. Hence, the reason for MOC's having "X" amount of slots. Most of these nominations aren't done until January. The application process for the academy is done at the end of January. This give the academy approximately 4-6 weeks to determine all those with nomination; rank their application; fill MOC slots; fill non-MOC slots; figure out who accepts and turns down; and offer more. In other words, if an individual from Florida turns down their appointment and they were on their Senator's slot, the academy can't give that open slot to someone in Alaska. They have to get another person from that Senator's slate.

You are correct that the academies are different than traditional universities. One of the biggest differences is; the traditional university can accept anyone they want to. They can also accept more than they initially plan to. The academies have a certain number of appointments they MUST give; BY LAW. They also are restricted, like this year, in how many total students they have at the school. So while it would be nice to tell some months ago; "Sorry, you didn't make it. Go check out plan "B".... That isn't necessarily possible. You might not be selected the first go around, but if the RIGHT person turns down the appointment, you might be the #1 choice. Doesn't matter what the rest of the applicants look like. Half of the appointments you only compete with who's in your district and state.

 

[pilot2b]

My USAFA portal just changed the other day to "Appointment declined" after I turned down the Air Force Academy in favor of NAPS. There are still people declining... Don't give up hope yet.

 

[fritz]

Good point Christcorp, however we'll agree to disagree. Too often this process gets convoluted and confused by itself. By the way, thats the way the sites report them or at least all I could find. The criteria doesn't change the overall facts, ave. vs a percentage can be reasonably extrapolated to have a purposeful meaning.

They can notify many, many of these "non-selected" applicants sooner and should. Too often you hear of these congressional slates and maybe one might just maybe one has an outside chance? OK, then select the chargeable candidate and keep 1 or 2 others active, the remainder release because they got no shot anyway and if I hear that they may make a selection down 3 or 4 deep as justification for keeping everyone else in the dark, thats not right. In my mind thats the tail waging the dog syndrome again.

You can always go back and find the 2 or 3 you need or the 25 you need, but the qty of folks given false hope is a sin.

 

[2016USAFA]

I agree with fritz. It's ridiculous that we are finding this out now.
Here I thought I stood a chance because I had still heard nothing. And now people who are (allegedly) much more qualified than I am are receiving TWE's? I have no doubt that I will receive a TWE now. (I live in CT so it'll take longer to get here).
They should have told us earlier... I held out on the hope that they fabricated and now I have to just accept that I'm going to a regular, non-prestigious college...

 

[Packer]

Not sure where the 80% acceptance rate comes from. No matter how you do the math. With only 1057 appointments: 12000 applicants - 8.8%; 6000 qualified applicants - 17.6%; 4000 nominees - 26.43%; 2500 3Q Qualified Candidates - 42.28%. To get 80%, that means 1057 appointments out of a pool of 1321 candidates.

Now; if you mean acceptance rate as in: Individuals accepting appointments given to them, that is another story. But colleges/universities (including the academies) use the words "Acceptance Rate" to mean how many the SCHOOL accepts from those applying. Just making sure everyone is speaking the same language.

This is obviously what I meant. Should have said 80% yield on appointments offered.

 

[juliusc16]

I agree with fritz. It's ridiculous that we are finding this out now.
Here I thought I stood a chance because I had still heard nothing. And now people who are (allegedly) much more qualified than I am are receiving TWE's? I have no doubt that I will receive a TWE now. (I live in CT so it'll take longer to get here).
They should have told us earlier... I held out on the hope that they fabricated and now I have to just accept that I'm going to a regular, non-prestigious college...

Hey, I didn't think I was as qualified as well!!(still don't think I am) (just sayin) But Admissions'll prove you wrong...

 

[2016USAFA]

Hey, I didn't think I was as qualified as well!!(still don't think I am) (just sayin) But Admissions'll prove you wrong...

That may be true, which actually does upset me, but that is beside the point .
The point is, tons of people just got TWE's and I am not as qulified as them, so it looks like a sad day in my house.
Thank you, though, for sharing that you don't deserve your appointment.

 

[LFry94]

I agree with fritz. It's ridiculous that we are finding this out now.
Here I thought I stood a chance because I had still heard nothing. And now people who are (allegedly) much more qualified than I am are receiving TWE's? I have no doubt that I will receive a TWE now. (I live in CT so it'll take longer to get here).
They should have told us earlier... I held out on the hope that they fabricated and now I have to just accept that I'm going to a regular, non-prestigious college...

It's not about how prestigious your college experience is. It's about where you want to be in 10-20 years. I want to be a fighter pilot. That dream is just another year away now.

 

[Knittle]

That may be true, which actually does upset me, but that is beside the point .
The point is, tons of people just got TWE's and I am not as qulified as them, so it looks like a sad day in my house.
Thank you, though, for sharing that you don't deserve your appointment.

I don't recall anything about not deserving the appointment... I'm pretty sure deserve has nothing to do with the selection process.

 

[Dad]

Hey, I didn't think I was as qualified as well!!(still don't think I am) (just sayin) But Admissions'll prove you wrong...

Admissions looks at the whole person. Obviously you have the qualities they are looking for.

 

[Christcorp]

Fritz and 2016; I understand what you're saying, but you're still comparing apples with oranges and coming up with a fuel injector. Just because someone who "Might" be more qualified than you received a TWE, doesn't mean you will. Now; if someone in your SAME district; in your SAME state; has a HIGHER composite score than you, and they received a TWE, then yes..... I'd say there's a 99.9% chance you'll receive a TWE.

But there are plenty of appointees who have LOWER SCORES than some who have received TWE. So sorry; they can't just let everyone know in February. It's not possible or practical.

The biggest thing is: Most MOC's don't have their cut offs and interviews until November/December. Many don't even give out their nominations until January. How can anyone know if they received an appointment if the academy doesn't even know if they have a nomination. Believe it not, we've actually had individuals get an LOA (Guarantee) of an appointment, but they didn't get a nomination, and they DIDN'T get the appointment. If that isn't happening until January, how can the academy get all the appointments offered by then.

I understand the frustration, but the academies are a lot more complicated than a traditional university. My only suggestion is to apply to the academies if you want; also apply to your backup schools. If the backup is very competitive, and they accept you earlier than the academy, then accept it and pay the bare minimum up front. (Most schools allow you to put up a couple hundred to hold a dorm room and have you get the finances, assistance, aid, etc... figured out and pay them around May/June.) This gives you a chance to find out about the academy and if you get an appointment, cancel the other school.

 

[Packer]

That may be true, which actually does upset me, but that is beside the point .
The point is, tons of people just got TWE's and I am not as qulified as them, so it looks like a sad day in my house.
Thank you, though, for sharing that you don't deserve your appointment.

Unless you have some real good inside information, there is no way you know if you are qualified or someone else is more or less qualified. There is more to this than gpa and test scores and they are pretty tight lipped on the more.

 

[ncmom26]

I'm just curious.

Consider this senario:

MOC only nominates 3 non-ranked nominees.

One is a minority-female
One is a minority-male
One is not a minority-male

Considering all things relatively equal, since they each received a nomination, what order would the USAFA use to select from this slate?

 

[2016USAFA]

I don't recall anything about not deserving the appointment... I'm pretty sure deserve has nothing to do with the selection process.

You're right, that part did come out wrong. I meant to say that the fact that even the Appointee herself didn't believe she was qualified made me uneasy about the process. Nothing about her qualifications or her person as a whole.

 

[Insider]

I'm just curious.

Consider this senario:

MOC only nominates 3 non-ranked nominees.

One is a minority-female
One is a minority-male
One is not a minority-male

Considering all things relatively equal, since they each received a nomination, what order would the USAFA use to select from this slate?

USAFA is blind to gender and diversity status during the admission process. In this case USAFA would select the nominee with the highest weighted composite. The composite is roughly 60% academic, 20% extra-curricular, and 20% ALO interview ("very roughly").

 

[fritz]

NC-MOM, wow, thats a loaded question. The only one thats certain, all things equal and assuming the exact same WCS, is the non-minority male would be #3.

 

[ncmom26]

USAFA is blind to gender and diversity status during the admission process. In this case USAFA would select the nominee with the highest weighted composite. The composite is roughly 60% academic, 20% extra-curricular, and 20% ALO interview ("very roughly").

Thanks Insider. One thing is certain, the admissions department at USAFA has a TOUGH job! Hats off to all of you.

 

[Insider]

NC-MOM, wow, thats a loaded question. The only one thats certain, all things equal and assuming the exact same WCS, is the non-minority male would be #3.

That is absolutely untrue. The world my be politically correct, but USAFA Admissions follows the law very closely, and the law specifically prohibits consideration of gender or race in the selection process.

USAFA does "mentor" select diversity candidates, but this only involves assistance and encouragement to complete the application process (which in and of itself is quite tedious). When the actual selections are made, race and gender are not considered.

 

[ncmom26]

That is absolutely untrue. The world my be politically correct, but USAFA Admissions follows the law very closely, and the law specifically prohibits consideration of gender or race in the selection process.

USAFA does "mentor" select diversity candidates, but this only involves assistance and encouragement to complete the application process (which in and of itself is quite tedious). When the actual selections are made, race and gender are not considered.

Thanks again, Insider. As I said in my previous message, you all there have THE hardest job selecting appointees. All of the candidates are equally deserving. Hats off to all of you!