Is USNA acceptance rate slightly unethical?

Is it ethical?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 88.9%

  • No!

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Total voters
    36
HopefulDad3210 said:
OldRetSWO said:
NEWSFLASH: Yesterday, the Merit Systems Protection Board upheld Prof Fleming's appeal and directed that he be reinstated with backpay. Personally, I think this is not a plus for USNA.
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This is discouraging news, but hardly surprising in our society today.
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Except that I thought exactly the opposite...that in our current "me too" climate, that his questionable extracurricular shenanigans would be the end of him.

Side Note: It's not on the official acronym list, but I did figure out YHGTBSM easily as I was reading...rolled right out of my mouth.
 
Sydney C. said:
Well...this just in breaking news here is that he [Fleming] IS going to be reinstated and get back pay:
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Ok .... So is he going to become a “Team Player” now, and adhere to the the Organizational and Employee Scorecard measuring sticks?

I can’t work for my outfit and “Rag” on it at the same time .... I am all confused.
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Seems like OP’s main interest here is not “ethics” but “prestige.” That says a lot. Or not.
 
It's all malarkey.
Years ago my D was waitlisted at Williams on April 1 and then denied about 3 weeks later.
Problem is she was early accepted at an Ivy the previous December 15th and emailed Williams (and other schools) on the 16th withdrawing her applications.
I'm sure Williams counted it as turning down someone who was accepted at an Ivy.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
2024candidate said:
Well after all he has been writing online, there's no way he will get his job back.. right?
Also this: "Records: Fired Naval Academy professor sent picture of himself in Speedo to students" -- that's pretty funny.
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Now to Professor Fleming --there are lots other threads about him here, some love him and some hate him.
I hate how he disparages the Naval Academy, but as an "enlightened" (or in modern day parlance "woke") soul, I recognize that dissenting views are necessary in an academic environment, and USNA does have a tendency toward "group think" and in ways, Professor Fleming's thoughts are accurates. However, I would prefer that he handle them like a mature adult and address the issues with the appropriate chain of command than running to the Washington Post.

As to the question about getting his job back ... I presume he is a federal employee, and the the federal employment system works in mysterious ways. If the issue was simply criticism of USNA, he wouldn't have been fired ...but the inappropriate pics or other actions are likely sufficient to uphold termination in this day and age.
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THParent said:
He was (by most unbiased accounts) an effective English professor, who had tenure and was fired. There is a lot on him here.
He is still appealing his firing, but I don't think he has a chance. I'm also okay with that.
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Unfortunately, the Professor is free to continue biting the hand that feeds him. It looks like he will receive back pay and be reinstated in time for the start of the academic year. The USNA can appeal the decision, but the case against the Professor is pretty flimsy without more mids complaining.
The midshipman who made the complaint was alone in his assertion that the "Speedo picture" was harassment. Also, it sounds like the young man in question had an axe to grind after receiving his first "C" ever from Professor Fleming.
 
Is it a must that he teach? Can he be assigned to positions other than teaching? How professors selected? Do they apply, interview and are hired? Or are they assigned through their service assignment?

He seems like someone who enjoys stirring the pot, either for attention or not. Hard to stir without a pot.
 
2024candidate said:
I apologize if this has been a topic of discussion before, but I read that the 1200 out of 16,000 applications statistic is BARELY true. Not to say it is not extremely competitive, but I believe they count people who submit a preliminary app and don’t do anything else..

Do you guys think it’s justified bc most people who don’t continue are scared away by the application, or do you think it is sort of sketchy for them to lower the acceptance rate in this way.
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First, the Navy never does anything unethical. But why does it matter what the statistics say? As Benjamin Disraeli said: "There are lies, there are dammed lies, and then there are statistics." If you read up on the profiles of the students that are accepted you will know what it takes. It is darned hard to get in. My SWAG is that even if you have a very strong profile, i.e, SAT's over 1400, Great Grades, Varsity Sports, Leadership etc. , you still have only something like a 1 in 4 chance of an appointment. It's a crap shoot. All you can do is do your best, have a Plan B, C, D and even E. And, what will be, will be.
 
NJROTC-CC said:
2024candidate said:
I apologize if this has been a topic of discussion before, but I read that the 1200 out of 16,000 applications statistic is BARELY true. Not to say it is not extremely competitive, but I believe they count people who submit a preliminary app and don’t do anything else..

Do you guys think it’s justified bc most people who don’t continue are scared away by the application, or do you think it is sort of sketchy for them to lower the acceptance rate in this way.
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First, the Navy never does anything unethical. But why does it matter what the statistics say? As Benjamin Disraeli said: "There are lies, there are dammed lies, and then there are statistics." If you read up on the profiles of the students that are accepted you will know what it takes. It is darned hard to get in. My SWAG is that even if you have a very strong profile, i.e, SAT's over 1400, Great Grades, Varsity Sports, Leadership etc. , you still have only something like a 1 in 4 chance of an appointment. It's a crap shoot. All you can do is do your best, have a Plan B, C, D and even E. And, what will be, will be.
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IF, you have all of those in your jacket AND you pass medical and CFA, get a decent interview, good recommendations from your teachers and a NOM then you have around a 1 in 4 chance. The path is littered with applications that failed any one of those other requirements.
 
helmsdown said:
IF, you have all of those in your jacket AND you pass medical and CFA, get a decent interview, good recommendations from your teachers and a NOM then you have around a 1 in 4 chance. The path is littered with applications that failed any one of those other requirements.
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Agree. That is what I was trying to explain. You said it better.
 
justdoit19 said:
Is it a must that he teach? Can he be assigned to positions other than teaching? How professors selected? Do they apply, interview and are hired? Or are they assigned through their service assignment?

He seems like someone who enjoys stirring the pot, either for attention or not. Hard to stir without a pot.
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Not all professors are members of the military. He is not. Many are not and are hired in the way that is typical for professors at non-military institutions, I.e. CV, publications, research profile, experience, etc. When he was hired it was likely easier to land such a position. Nowadays it is much more difficult because of the democratization of education over the past forty years, changes in how universities staff themselves and other varied factors depending on the institution.
 
321pilot said:
Sarcasm hopefully? There is an entire ethics department at USNA precisely because this is not the case.
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Only semi-sarcastic. Certainly, education in the area of ethics is crucial in all walks of life, not just at USNA. While of course individuals in the Navy sometimes do unethical things, I do not believe that the Navy - - as an organization - - ever knowingly acts unethically. In this case, I believe the admissions office has a legitimate explanation as to how it reports its admissions statistics and I don't believe it is being unethical. In sports there is a saying "statistics are for losers." So to all: forget the statistics focus what you can control. And, as they say in the State Lottery, "you have to be in it to win it." Or, as in the case of the USNA, "if you do not apply, you will not get in."
 
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"[WAPO Wed. 7/24/2019].... Fleming’s case touches on the tension between academic culture, with its reverence for free speech and critical thinking, and military culture, which regards loyalty and conformity with rules as paramount virtues .... Fleming has been a persistent critic of the Naval Academy ...."

Fleming is NOT the voice of the USNA. This is THE problem. This is an Employee conduct issue. The USNA has a Communications department.
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He wouldn't be working at my company. Academia is no different. You don't constantly RAG on the organization you work for ... period
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NavyHoops said:
He is a federal government employee... that is the issue. Firing a federal government employee... pretty sure it’s easier to steal the Declaration of Independence... I mean Nicholas Cage made it happen.
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This. My father-in-law was General Counsel of one of the Federal agencies. Two of his lawyers regularly smoked pot in the agency's stairwell. He tried to get them fired but couldn't.
 
ders_dad said:
NavyHoops said:
He is a federal government employee... that is the issue. Firing a federal government employee... pretty sure it’s easier to steal the Declaration of Independence... I mean Nicholas Cage made it happen.
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This. My father-in-law was General Counsel of one of the Federal agencies. Two of his lawyers regularly smoked pot in the agency's stairwell. He tried to get them fired but couldn't.
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... madness ...:blowup:
 
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