January 4, 2011 AROTC Board

FloridaDad said:
I believe my DS's PMS entered the interview straight into the CCs computer system.
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Hope he has a copy of the file then....I wasn't in the area while DS did his interview, have no idea on the technology used.... we sent all of DS's test scores and transcripts (plus a few other documents CC requested) by all 3 methods. It seemed to work.
 
patentesq said:
I've been looking that the President's budget (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/mil.pdf), and as far as I can tell, we're looking at the same number of scholarships this year than last (actual number is not specified, but the overall dollar figures for appropriations appears to be unchanged).

I'm out of my zone here. Any accountants in the house????
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No, not an accountant by any means, but I was just googling the 1995 shut down to get an idea where in the heck that might leave everyone - not just our applicants - sounds like a huge mess!! Dec. 1995....I had just had DS's little sister and was tackling 3 kids under 5 yrs old....how did I miss the government shut down...I must have been lost somewhere and never watched TV or something...

wow, just looked at the clock, must log off and get some shut eye....will catch everyone tomorrow.
 
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paradoxer said:
10% of the people think, 10% of the people think they think and 80% would rather die than think. To break out of the 80% is a real challenge.
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Thanks, paradoxer. Totally get your point. The other thing that I've REALLY been thinking about is that the PMS that I had faulted earlier WAS on the January 4 board!!! So . . . while I may fault the PMS, he or she was one of the folks eyeballing my DS's application. Ugh!!! Nothing in life is fair, I suppose.

I also hope that I haven't offended Jcleppe. I think the world of his contributions here.

On the bright side, my DS's AROTC application was initiated in July and everything was wrapped up fairly early, except the APFT scoresheet (sent in December). Maybe if CC generates the list of the "I LOVE ARMY" candidates by sorting by the "application date" and not the "completion date" my DS will be able to PROVE that he's sincere about this whole military thing. Oh well.

I just can't believe that the PMS from one school would urge people to complete their applications early, and the PMS from another school would urge people NOT to complete it early (although getting the packet in before the Jan. 4 board was important). Totally different advice from two officers in the same system!

The lesson for you juniors out there, get everything in early -- before you start school in the fall -- so you don't have to worry about this particular issue.

Geez, March is shaping up to be a pretty interesting month!!

P.S. I hate computers.
 
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President's Budget

patentesq said:
I've been looking that the President's budget (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/mil.pdf), and as far as I can tell, we're looking at the same number of scholarships this year than last (actual number is not specified, but the overall dollar figures for appropriations appears to be unchanged).

I'm out of my zone here. Any accountants in the house????
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Thanks for the link, Patentesq. I'm not an accountant but I work with numbers and budgets, so I'll take a shot.

It's difficult to discern the number of future scholarships based on the information presented in the budget since it only goes to fiscal 2012 (Oct. 2011 to Sept. 2012). The number of ARMY ROTC graduates is increasing in fiscal 2011 and 2012 compared to fiscal 2010. (p. 230) But if the overall dollars remain the same, it could mean the out years reflect a lower number of scholarships. For one thing unit costs (i.e., the cost of individual tuition) are rising.

Also, there are a lot of moving parts. Check out the weird drop in 2011 AF Health Profession graduates.

In any case, it's pretty humbling to see a budget with everything rounded to the nearest million bucks. For the vast majority of us as individuals, everything would be rounded down to zero.
 
Thanks, EDelahanty. Insightful post.

On page one, it shows the number of USAFA cadets declining from 4558 to 4000 between this year and last. The decrease in the number of USMA cadets is less dramatic, decreasing from 4669 to 4471.
 
patentesq said:
I've been looking that the President's budget (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/mil.pdf), and as far as I can tell, we're looking at the same number of scholarships this year than last (actual number is not specified, but the overall dollar figures for appropriations appears to be unchanged).

I'm out of my zone here. Any accountants in the house????
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patentesq - from my earlier post there is a planned reduction in the number of offered MSL I scholarships in FY11 as compared to FY10

Between 2010 and 2011 there is a planned reduction in new MSL I level scholarships. Historically (2010) there were 3,808 new scholarships versus a planned 2,600 for the current year. This may explain 3 boards vs. 5. The purpose of ROTC is relatively simple - provide a source for commision officers for the US Army. It does this alongside the academy and OCS. The present plan calls for a continued 5,350 comissions begining in FY14. This is a reduction of an average of 5,600 ROTC has been producing. Less required officers = less required cadets.
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The following link describes the ROTC process in detail and ties into the numbers you see in the President's FY12 budget as well as the FY11 originally submitted. Keep in mind that a provision of the current CR is to continue funding at FY10 levels (a big point of contention for DoD because that means no new starts to programs, etc.) and also drives the cautionary behavior we are seeing across the board.

http://www.mors.org/UserFiles/file/2010 Personnel/WG6/Roederer Briefing Wed morning cleared.pdf
 
USMA90 said:
patentesq - from my earlier post there is a planned reduction in the number of offered MSL I scholarships in FY11 as compared to FY10
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Wow. That's almost a 32% reduction in AROTC scholarships this year! Why is the reduction in AROTC so much more dramatic than enrolled cadets at USMA?
 
Everything ties into what the authorized end strength is for the service. In the coming years the recent increase in total authorized "head-count" for the Army will decrease (including officers, WOs and enlisted). This is because of the anticipated drawdown in the current GWOT theatres of Iraq and Afghanistan. Congress authorized specifically the Army and Marine Corps to increase head-count for purposes of operations such as the "surges" in both theatres. Now based upon the President's directive that we will begin pullouts in both, the necessity of bringing in additional officers to fill the ranks diminishes and we will see a reduction in both services.

As far as USMA goes, Congress caps the total authorized cadets. Usually this is around 4500 (not sure what it is exactly now). This was scaled back several years ago, but was increased because of the need for addtional officers because of GWOT. The current incoming class of 2015 is going to be one of the smallest in probably a decade. There are several reasons for this. Attrition from the academy has been relatively low compared to historical numbers and the previous classes have been fairly large. Just like ROTC, USMA has to plan on attrition throughout all 4 years and determine how many cadets to enroll each year. Both aren't an exact science, but somehow it all works out in the end! Also the quality of the young men and women enrolling has been tremendous. Just like our DS/DDs, they are highly qualifed and dedicated to service to country. It truly takes a special person to step forward, especially understanding the current unrest in the world.

ROTC is still the largest producer of officers each year by far. Haven't specifically looked at the projected numbers for USMA, however they may not be immune in the out years as well as DoD and Congress look for additional savings.
 
I would think USMA is the same as AFA and USNA. 4400 is their number.

Both the AFA and USNA have stated that they are over their numbers. The AFA has gone as far as to officially announce this yr they will reduce the amt of apptmts to 1200-1300, compared to the traditional 1600. This is not only for 15, but 16 too. By reducing the numbers for incoming they can get back in line for the mandated reqs.

If you look at the Academy news on this forum, there is a thread going about the USNA. One of the things that is being discussed is the fact that the days of 2nd chances are gone. One strike and you are out. This maybe anecdotal, but it also maybe a sign of how the USNA plans to get back to the 4400 number...I believe they said that they are at 4600+. This maybe their way of keeping apptmt numbers at the 1600 level for 15.

Two different philosophies on how to approach the quota mandated.

As stated it is yr end strength. I may be incorrect, but I think their yr end is not Sept, but May, when the academic yr ends.

The thing is the SA apptmts impact ROTC. 99% of them will apply for ROTC. That makes it hard for ROTC, because if the SA starts handing out less apptmts, many will take the scholarship. Thus, they have to be almost psychic in trying to figure out who will take them up on the offer and who won't; hard to do when the candidate is waiting for the SA's apptmt., which is usually March.

Remember ROTC scholarships are not binding if you get an apptmt to an SA.

From there they also face another issue, manpower requirements for 5 yrs from now. With the economy the way it is, and expected to be for 5 more yrs., less members will leave, so they than will have too many, and maybe forced to RIF.

So if you look at the ROTC world, they are squeezed between the SA's and the AD world, where they have no control over either, but are greatly impacted by both.
 
August 2010 Article

patentesq said:
Wow. That's almost a 32% reduction in AROTC scholarships this year! Why is the reduction in AROTC so much more dramatic than enrolled cadets at USMA?
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Remember a few weeks back in this thread when we read the Army's press release that said 2579 ROTC scholarships were awarded for the class of 2014? What is the apples to apples comparison? So now we expect roughly 1755 awards for 2015 and not the 20% reduction of about 2100 as initially speculated?
 
paradoxer said:
What is the apples to apples comparison?
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I suspect no one will know until at least March 5 (we'll either have a continuing CR or approved Pentagon budget by that date). My guess is that, by March 1, CC will dribble out a few "sure things" from the Jan. 4 board and roll everyone else over to the March 8 board. Just a guess, though. If that happens, a majority of AROTC applicants who completed their applications on 10 January will be in the same selection pool as those who completed their applications in November.
 
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Every branch has their own dates, but on a whole they meet up around the same time. I.E. NROTC may meet in Jan., but not the same week as AROTC.

Same for results. It is left to the branch on when to release the list.


Patent, I am sure you are correct, but the reason why would be because ROTC boards take the FIFO (1st In 1st Out) approach. If the bulk are in by Nov., and January has stragglers, than yes, there will be that occurring.

Additionally, there will always be candidates that are on the cusp, thus they will be deferred to the next round of selection.

It is important to understand ROTC boards are not like SA boards. They do not meet weekly to score applicants. They basically come in, go through as many as they can, and call it a day, leaving those who did not get scored for the next board. Also, that is the time they may opt to roll candidates to the next board.

paradoxer said:
Remember a few weeks back in this thread when we read the Army's press release that said 2579 ROTC scholarships were awarded for the class of 2014? What is the apples to apples comparison? So now we expect roughly 1755 awards for 2015 and not the 20% reduction of about 2100 as initially speculated?
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I am getting confused here (silly polish person here). I took Paradoxer asking what does the cut of 32% have to do with the USMA enrollment re: apples to apples, did I read it wrong?
 
Oh okay that makes sense. Just getting real anxious of waiting considering I still do not know where I am going next year, especially if my application keeps getting "rolled over" and I won't hear any kind of response until mid April.
 
Clarification, hopefully

Pima said:
I am getting confused here (silly polish person here). I took Paradoxer asking what does the cut of 32% have to do with the USMA enrollment re: apples to apples, did I read it wrong?
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Basically I was trying to figure out what patentesq thought was being cut by 32%? As 2759 announced Aug 2010 compared to the 2600 number given forth by USMA90 did not seem like 32%.
 
Sorry. I was using the numbers from the following sentence from USMA90's post:

"Historically (2010) there were 3,808 new scholarships versus a planned 2,600 for the current year."
 
patentesq said:
Wow. That's almost a 32% reduction in AROTC scholarships this year! Why is the reduction in AROTC so much more dramatic than enrolled cadets at USMA?
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There were large reductions last year as well, at least at every school that my son looked at.

I found an interesting article written by MSNBC and on an Educational website that was written on 9/21/09. It stated that "in 1999-2000 there were 430 scholarships awarded. Last year, the figure was 3,179". They also stated that more were to be given out in the 2009 year than that figure.

Jump ahead to the scholarships given out last year it clearly shows a decline as only 2,519 were awarded.
 
cjs said:
Jump ahead to the scholarships given out last year it clearly shows a decline as only 2,519 were awarded.
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Which is also why you probably see a bump in the amount of candidates applying, thus why the competition level has increased, AND why it takes longer for them to decide who to award the scholarships to for ROTC.

This thread is quickly becoming the thread to understand why receiving an ROTC scholarship is not just fill the paperwork out, and you get one.

It is also explaining how the economy, the SA's and military manpower impacts their decision making process.

I hope someone does create a blog of FAQs for ROTC scholarships, using this thread as the fountain of info.

Best of luck, and although you may not believe it, you are at the end of the tunnel for this process... I can hear the radio now starting to do that in and out thing you get when you are in the tunnel:wink:
 
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