Lame Duck Congressmen

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by BBBRRRTT, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. BBBRRRTT

    BBBRRRTT Member

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    Does anyone know if lame duck congressmen have as many possible nominations as returning congressmen. Also, is there any USAFA statistics on nominations by lame duck congressmen vs. returning congressmen.
     
  2. Wishful

    Wishful "Land of the free, because of the brave..." 5-Year Member

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    The nominations are tied to the district, not the individual MOC so there is no break in the process.
     
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  3. BBBRRRTT

    BBBRRRTT Member

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    I kind of messed up the original post. I was wondering if there are some publicly available statistics that show how many appointments and nominations are from each district in the nation for each given year. I have a theory that I would like to graph and research, and without these statistics, it will probably just remain a theory.
     
  4. Bracken

    Bracken Member

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    My DD received nom from 1st term MOC in his first year. She figured out by speaking with the other nominees that 4 other kids had received their noms from him thus filling his limit of 5. But through our contact with the local parent's club, we learned of 3 current cadets who received nom from prior MOC. This evidence makes cloudy the fact that each congressional office is allowed 5 at USAFA at one time. It also furthers my belief that if USAFA wants a candidate, they will find a way to get them and we don't really know how it happens.
     
  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    You clearly do not understand nominations. You are correct that a MOC can have 5 folks charged to them at an academy. They may nominate up to 10 people to fill a single slot. So based on your comment the MOC nominsated a slate of 5 candidates, including your daughter, to fill a SINGLE slot which will be charged to him or her, and then become part of their 5 at an academy.
     
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  6. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Banned

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    Don’t forget the other 5 nominations that she didn’t speak to.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    Kinnem is correct. There is a difference between being appointed and charged.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    I do not see how you could graph this at all. There are several MoCs that never submit slates. There are times that an MoC will not complete their term (died/resign) and a special election occurs. I recall yrs ago in NJ. Gov Christie appointed a Sen. and announced a special election. The appointee lost, and Corey Booker won. Meanwhile because of the SAs the appointee still went forward. In the end they decided 5 would come from their list and 5 from Bookers
     
  9. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Banned

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    I think you can do it. Nominations and appointments by district. With the understanding that that the appointments aren’t related to who the appointment was charged to.
     
  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Or even between nominated and appointed, which is what I was getting at. But you are correct as well, in that someone on a MOCs slate can be appointed but not necessarily charged to the MOC.
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    But then it's meaningless if what you are trying to prove is related to what happens with lame duck congressmen.
     
  12. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Banned

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    Of course. I didn’t tie the second post to lame duck congressmen.

    My son was nominated by a lame duck congressman.

    But I think the geography of nominations and appointments would be an interesting read.
     
  13. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Super Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Where one is charged vs getting a nom can vary so much. Many Mids will just assume it was their MOC when they might have a Sec Nav or even a VP nom.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    You would also have to add in Presidential or ROTC noms. Thus, as interesting of idea as this might be, I do not think that it is realistic to try to graph this at all.

    Many moons ago I interviewed for a position as a GS at the Pentagon. The office was the USAFA liaison office. Their job was to be the liaison between USAFA and MoCs. 2x a yr they would go to the Hill and explain the process. (July and Jan.) and stay on top of the process. The dept had 3 rooms in the office. 1 was floor to ceiling color coded cards on 3 of the walls. It was broken down by state for every MoC. The color code belonged to the yr group that was charged. Thus, if Sen Smith called and asked how many charges do I have? They could look at the wall and quickly answer. If they called and said who is the cadet that will be commissioning this yr. The staff would be able to walk over to the card, pull it out give their name, address and phone number that was on record.

    So yes, in a way you can find out, but I doubt calling up the Pentagon and asking for that office is going to work.
     
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  15. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    One word... FOIA... but you need to know what to ask for.
     
  16. BBBRRRTT

    BBBRRRTT Member

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    Thanks for the advice. Putting my request into our former MOC was the wrong person to ask since it did not apply to their office. Maybe sometime when I get a little free time I will try filling out some FOIA requests to USAFA liaison office at the Pentagon. Good to know!
     
  17. Bracken

    Bracken Member

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    My apologies for not being clear. Poor word choice on my part. I'll try again. My DD is a C4C. She spoke to other USAFA C4Cs who are from our congressional district, and they determined they all received their noms from the same MOC, not senator or VP or pres or other. Then I learned from other parents that their C3Cs and C2Cs received their noms from the MOC who retired from our district. This means there are currently at least 8 cadets at USAFA who received noms from our congressional office. 3 from the guy who retired and 5 from the current MOC. Hence my conclusion (opinion) that USAFA will find a way to keep applicants they want, regardless of how many are already there from a given congressional district. If I'm still wrong about this, I welcome correction. Thank you.
     
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  18. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    Back on topic.
    BBBRRTT

    I don't understand your goal here.
    You have to understand charging and it appears you don't get it.

    It really is very simple.
    Every MoC can only have 5 charges. The charges are tied to the office, not the person. A lame duck will not know they are lame until Nov., but for SA noms. most applications are due no later than 10/31...before they lose the election. The new MoC will not take oath of office until the 1st week of Jan. Noms are due no later than 1/31. The new MoC has so much going on transitioning that submitting a slate is 999 out of 1000 things that need to be done. No offense, but they would be relieved that this was done by the lame duck.
    ~ Lame duck might have 2 openings, and they may decide that this yr they will only submit 1 slate, leaving that 2 slates for the incoming MoC.

    Nomination charging are not going to change. It is by law. No MOC can have more than 5 charged.

    Now if you really want to look statistically at something where the FOIA will not help impo, It is from the national pool list. IE VA, CA. CO. TX, FL, NY are very competitive. The MoCs talk, but like braken stated there are many that only had that 1 MoC, yet, all got appointed.
    ~ Why?
    ~~ Simple. SAs start geo-centric and work their way out. A candidate from New Hampshire (3 noms) with a lower WCS than a candidate from MD (1 nom) may get an appointment 1st bc they had 3 tries before they hit the national pool, whereas the MD candidate had 1. However, in the end of the day because that candidate had a high score on the WCS, he came off the pool.

    If your theory is that the lame duck does not submit, than as a long time poster I would say your theory is a bust.
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    It doesn't matter how many are there from any given congressional district. What matters is who the appointment is charged to. You know where they got nominations from, not where the appointment was charged to. Some of those could have come from the top 150 taken of the NWL by law. Your conclusion is essentially correct but the logic to get there is faulty.
     
  20. BBBRRRTT

    BBBRRRTT Member

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    I probably did not have a really good feel for the system, but the comments above have been sure to add to my understanding, when I get a chance to really read them and possibly absorb them. At the end of 2017, our congressman was not up for election, he decided to retire, additionally our district redistricted, so that makes it even more blurry. When we called last year, we got no feedback from the MOC office. We just wanted to know if someone from our district got appointed, kind of curious as much as anything. So when they said basically, bug off, we don't need to give you that information, I started speculating or theorizing.....that a congressman that is retiring perhaps may not get as many appointments as a congressman that will be carrying some fiscal authority over the DOD in the near future. That's it, it may be just conspiracy theory, but I thought there may be some statistical significance. It doesn't really matter I guess, just my curiosity as much as anything.