Marijuana Second Hand Smoke

NovaGrad

NovaGrad

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Joined
May 4, 2017
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92
DD is incoming Plebe to West Point and before receiving her appt. we purchased her tickets to Firefly- a 4 day concert that she has wanted to go to for years but there was always something preventing her from going like Girls State, sports, mom/dads fears. Concert is two weeks before R-day. She really wants to go but is concerned others around her smoking marijuana will have her come up hot in a test. She is a serious athlete and straight as an arrow but she cannot control what others do around her. I have tried to research second hand smoke and different studies produced different results. I guess I am looking for any references to something like this happening. I would hate for 4 days of fun and someones poor choices to destroy her dreams. This was going to be her big reward before signing the next 9 years away to Uncle Sam. Advice?
 
NovaGrad said:
I would hate for 4 days of fun and someones poor choices to destroy her dreams.
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More than likely two weeks is enough for a non smoker to clear and residual second hand smoke traces.
May not register at all even the next day.
Keep in mind as she seems fully informed that the poor choice would be hers, not someone else's.
 
NovaGrad said:
DD is incoming Plebe to West Point and before receiving her appt. we purchased her tickets to Firefly- a 4 day concert that she has wanted to go to for years but there was always something preventing her from going like Girls State, sports, mom/dads fears.
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So you have had concerns about this concert in previous years?

My advice to cadet candidates/new cadets is "Don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people." I would not take a chance on something stupid happening because of stupid people. My WP grad passed on a high school graduation beach trip because of the people who were going along---he had too much to lose and they had nothing to lose.

(FYI: Your daughter is a cadet candidate until she takes the Oath on R-Day, then she is a New Cadet until A-Day when she is officially accepted into the Corps and becomes a plebe.)
 
Concert looks like it's outdoors which is a good thing. Obviously she shouldn't take/eat/drink anything from a stranger. Same for leaving food/drink unattended. The concert will be something she can remember to draw strength from during basic, esp. you allowing her to go. I'm sure her friends are all good people, so she should be OK.
 
I would be more concerned if she was on a travel basketball/soccer team, etc. Concussions, ACL's, etc.
 
Concert is completely outside and they camp! (Does not sound like all that much fun to me) Friends are good kids but these concerts are notorious for everyone partaking. Hell we took our kids to a Taylor Swift concert when she was just a "good girl" years ago and people were smoking around us! My kids asked if there was a dead skunk in the stadium. I would like to let her enjoy this as she has worked so hard. She says she will relocate to another location if people in her immediate vicinity are smoking. I am wondering how sensitive the test for military will be as studies say there is no way secondhand smoke is detectable at the standard test. Does the military test under the normal thresholds of 50 nanos per mil?

Wishful-I have already had the conversation about playing but she refuses to not play spring soccer-HS Girls in our state play in the spring and that is more of a concern as they typically are not as skilled as her travel team and the likelihood of injury from a bad tackle is greater. She is adamant about playing as team captain and a contender for the state championship. Lots of prayers, fingers crossed and a back up plan is in place in case of the unforeseen circumstances.
 
Completely understandable, she should enjoy her Senior season; you only get one. Rereading your post, I see that she is concerned about the concert. It is a long time from now, & as the concert, as well as R-Day gets closer, she will probably reassess many times. I think she will ultimately chose not to attend but has to go through the process. As a fellow parent, I know that's way easier to for me to say then for you to let happen! She sounds like a strong young woman, she'll make the right choice.
 
Don’t take any risk! Don’t go! Why in the world would you want to take the risk now. No matter what, your daughter is still responsible for the choices she makes. Whether it is second hand or first hand she asked to be there. I get upset walking through smoke of pot wake in public streets. Of course kids will be smoking pit around her or next to her. Why ask for trouble. Don’t do it!
 
Why take the risk? If you are concerned enough about the prevalence of marijuana smoke at an event that you felt compelled to ask about the length of detect-ability here, then clearly your 'mommy-senses' are tingling. I would come up with another rewarding trip. Also, she will have to learn that if someone is smoking near her or around her or in the room with her, that she MUST get up and leave immediately. Legal in some states, not federally legal and she will be under federal regulations.

Dixieland's statement about 'wrong place, wrong time' should ring true in the hearts of the cadet candidates and stay with them for the rest of their lives. If her friends partake, they are likely to no longer be the friends with whom she should be spending her free time. Different values. Different standards.
 
Of all the things an incoming candidate might worry about, this shouldn't even appear on someone's radar. Go! Have fun! It will be a great memory. Good lord, you can't lock them up until the day they leave home......
 
CrewDad said:
Don’t take any risk! Don’t go! Why in the world would you want to take the risk now. No matter what, your daughter is still responsible for the choices she makes. Whether it is second hand or first hand she asked to be there. I get upset walking through smoke of pot wake in public streets. Of course kids will be smoking pit around her or next to her. Why ask for trouble. Don’t do it!
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Right on. Shut her down. Be the bad guy. There will be plenty of time for her to go to concerts later.
 
Dixieland said:
NovaGrad said:
DD is incoming Plebe to West Point and before receiving her appt. we purchased her tickets to Firefly- a 4 day concert that she has wanted to go to for years but there was always something preventing her from going like Girls State, sports, mom/dads fears.
Click to expand...

So you have had concerns about this concert in previous years?

My advice to cadet candidates/new cadets is "Don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people." I would not take a chance on something stupid happening because of stupid people. My WP grad passed on a high school graduation beach trip because of the people who were going along---he had too much to lose and they had nothing to lose.

(FYI: Your daughter is a cadet candidate until she takes the Oath on R-Day, then she is a New Cadet until A-Day when she is officially accepted into the Corps and becomes a plebe.)
Click to expand...
There will be these same decisions to be made AFTER she gets to West Point, as well. Some cadets WILL participate in illegal activities such as underage drinking, and worse, when they are on passes. Will she want to go hang with these, knowing they will do things, even if she does not?
 
I'm in the cautious 'don't go camp'. Here's why - should she end up arrested (a group arrest along with those who were smoking), the arrest alone will cause her to lose her spot at WP. I learned this from our head state field force rep. He told me that it's not all that uncommon for a cadet to lose their spot at WP for this reason. They go to a graduation party. They are not drinking but others at the party are drinking. The police come and arrest everyone. They eventually discover that the cadet candidate was not drinking but the fact that s/he was arrested is enough for their appointment to be rescinded.

Now maybe someone will say that this doesn't happen in their state but I am in a state that is incredibly competitive and we do send quite a lot of young men and women to WP every year. And I spoke with the field force rep who is charge of my state's FFRs.
 
Arrested?? For what?:confused2: In NY, it would be a summons issued to underage person for possession with intent to consume, no arrest authorized, & max penalty of 30 hours of community service. Penal Law definition: “Possess” means to have physical possession or otherwise to exercise dominion or control over tangible property". Unless you had a red plastic cup in your hand when "50" showed up, or are the owner or relative of the owner present at the party, I can not see issuing one. Pursuing charges against the owner of the property, is of course, another matter.

http://apexschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/NYS-Alcohol-Offenses-Under-21-Yrs-Old.pdf
 
Maybe my view is a little skewed because I went to a service academy in Colorado...but I wouldn't be tremendously concerned about second-hand mj smoke from an outdoor concert coming up on a drug test. It just doesn't happen...I can't even think of an anecdotal situation where it has. Cadets go to concerts all the time, she should enjoy her brief summer.
 
I'm just saying...you want to be as sure as possible before you put handcuffs on somebody.
 
NovaGrad. Decisions Decisions. You heard from this panel. And it is clear everyone is supportive of your daughter. Despite the difference in our own opinions. I think all of us had their valid points. Nevertheless, the decision is your daughter’s. And she will own it. Best wishes to your DD.
 
A study in Canada, published in 2017 by the University of Calgary, showed that THC can appear in the blood/tissues of a person exposed to secondary smoke for upwards of 4 hours after exposure. They also showed in extreme cases (heavy smoking in a poorly ventilated room, total exposure for several hours) could show positive THC in the blood/tissues upwards of 24-48 hours.

Not weeks.

If you really want to read the study, it's on the Canadian Medical Association Journal Open which you can search for and find.

The bottom line? Be smart. It would appear to me, from reading the entire study, that a "positive urinalysis" in the military for THC would NOT occur from second-hand exposure as the levels reported, in nanograms, was below the level I remember from the many court-martials I sat upon as a member. Still...that being said, would you want a security clearance investigator to hear the words: "Oh...XXXX...she/he used to always hang out with the group, at school, the park, at concerts...and there was weed...oh yeah...but I don't "think" he/she used it..." It is VERY common in the high schools today (I know, I teach in HS) but there are times and places to be and to avoid.

In the end...honestly, as the outside observer looking in: let her decide. No pressure from you, as hard as that may be; but let her make the call.

It's a part of growing up and being responsible.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Thank you all for the responses as I wanted opinions others than mine to show her. Dad is sometimes the overbearing bad guy. Ultimately I think flieger83, USMAROTCfamily, and Wishful make valid points that she will have to make a lot of "Domino" decisions in her time at West Point and beyond and this is as good a place as any for her to begin. Her immediate group of friends is not an issue as they are like minded. I would have to believe that most young men/Women heading off to a service academy have already made the decision to surround themselves with quality people. It was interesting to see how polar opposite the opinions were though.
 
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