Navy files homicide charges against commanders of 2 ships in deadly crashes

Yep, especially if the forensics find activity on the personal electronic devices of those bridge watch standers......
 
I merged these two threads as they are addressing the same topic...
 
You know, I wonder how much of this is to really effect "justice," and how much is to cover up training issues within the Navy. Is there enough time and resources to get it done? Or do you go to sea with everyone tacitly understanding you've taken some shortcuts based on budgets and mission tempo? It's not an exact parallel, but "hazarding a vessel," Captain McVay comes to mind.
 
Sledge said:
You know, I wonder how much of this is to really effect "justice," and how much is to cover up training issues within the Navy. Is there enough time and resources to get it done? Or do you go to sea with everyone tacitly understanding you've taken some shortcuts based on budgets and mission tempo? It's not an exact parallel, but "hazarding a vessel," Captain McVay comes to mind.
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Honestly that was my first thought as well. The military obviously puts a huge emphasis on commanders being responsible for everything their unit does/fails to do and that's fine...but what I'll bet that if any CO tried to stand up and say "We're not ready to sail because of X/Y/Z" they would be fired in a heartbeat.

You wouldn't believe the number of people I've heard crying that "It was just those two ships! Everyone else is fine!" Yeah...sure...
 
Hurricane12 said:
I'll bet that if any CO tried to stand up and say "We're not ready to sail because of X/Y/Z" they would be fired in a heartbeat
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Isn't preparing the crew to sail a commanders job? If not, what is their job? A parallel to Captain McVay? This is more akin to Captain Schettino, [Costa Concordia]
I personally would like to know why lives were lost.
 
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The responsibility is with the captain. It’s certainly possible to avoid big boats... and yet the Navy has had trouble doing that.

Hold the command accountable for the useless loss of life in a non combat situation.
 
I think everyone is fine with the "hold the command accountable" position. The real question is how high up the command do you go with that. If it's a system wide problem, do only the statistically unlucky face criminal charges? Past history would say so. And no real change occurs.
 
I understand sailors died but are criminal charges the correct way to go. I dont know what happened or even begin to understand if someone told me but it would seem to me that unless someone was being criminally reckless, that criminal charges seem overkill. I will even admit that I have no idea what being criminall reckless even is. I also understand this this is military law and maybe different from civilian criminal law. I would be interested to know what they exactly did that was criminal. They are charging several people from the same boat. How could they all be criminally responsible unless they were acting in concert
 
One thing I read today said there were systemic weaknesses in how the 7th Fleet was managed. For instance, decisions about readiness and task assignments were done in the same chain, which creates a conflict and is different than other parts of the overall fleet apparently.
 
Humey said:
I dont know what happened or even begin to understand if someone told me but it would seem to me that unless someone was being criminally reckless, that criminal charges seem overkill. I will even admit that I have no idea what being criminally reckless even is... I would be interested to know what they exactly did that was criminal.
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In most states, this would be criminal negligence if it resulted in injury or death.

NTWLF ONE said:
Yep, especially if the forensics find activity on the personal electronic devices of those bridge watch standers......
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We should all wait for the forensics.

I still don't understand how a billion ship which can simultaneously track multiple small objects travelling at supersonic speeds at various altitudes can't calculate the vector of a shopping mall travelling at 20 kts.
 
Humey said:
I understand sailors died but are criminal charges the correct way to go. I dont know what happened or even begin to understand if someone told me but it would seem to me that unless someone was being criminally reckless, that criminal charges seem overkill. I will even admit that I have no idea what being criminall reckless even is. I also understand this this is military law and maybe different from civilian criminal law. I would be interested to know what they exactly did that was criminal. They are charging several people from the same boat. How could they all be criminally responsible unless they were acting in concert
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Slamming into another vessel at sea resulting in loss of life is criminal. Drive your car down the road and slam into someone it’s gonna be manslaughter if your negligence resulted in a fatality. With command comes responsibility.
 
cb7893 said:
Humey said:
I dont know what happened or even begin to understand if someone told me but it would seem to me that unless someone was being criminally reckless, that criminal charges seem overkill. I will even admit that I have no idea what being criminally reckless even is... I would be interested to know what they exactly did that was criminal.
Click to expand...

In most states, this would be criminal negligence if it resulted in injury or death.

NTWLF ONE said:
Yep, especially if the forensics find activity on the personal electronic devices of those bridge watch standers......
Click to expand...

We should all wait for the forensics.

I still don't understand how a billion ship which can simultaneously track multiple small objects travelling at supersonic speeds at various altitudes can't calculate the vector of a shopping mall travelling at 20 kts.
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There was gross negligence. Obviously.
 
Wishful said:
I think everyone is fine with the "hold the command accountable" position. The real question is how high up the command do you go with that. If it's a system wide problem, do only the statistically unlucky face criminal charges? Past history would say so. And no real change occurs.
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Statistically unlucky?
 
I can see charges for direct actions that lead to this, but "command climate" type issues should probably top out at firing the person rather than long prison sentences.
 
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