Need Advice- 3C wants to throw in the towel

I bet his coach and teammates would be the first ones to support him leaving the team to get SAT so he has a chance to become a Marine. That is the mission of USNA, and staff, faculty and coaches all know that being SAT in all graded areas is the prime directive. Everything else comes second.

He has to think this through from all angles. Just love and support him as he does this. There are other ways to become a Marine officer.
 
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Similar thoughts as @Capt MJ!!

As a mom, I would HIGHLY recommend a chat about long term goals. Yes, a D1 sport is special during your college years. But at expense (potentially) of his future dreams? If he leaves, so does the sport.

If he were mine, I would highly recommend taking a year off from his sport. It’s easy to say that it’s “test taking”. Perhaps it is. But I’m pretty confident, that freeing up the stress/time commitment/mental brain drain/travel/workouts/warmup and cool downs/team meetings and events would at least not make things worse for him.

Kuddos to him for not wanting to let his team and coach down. The reality is, he won’t. Someone will fill his shoes.

I do speak from experience…my own Mid decided to leave his sport that he was recruited for. I was crushed, tbh. Part of it was my letting go of being the bleacher mom I had been for the last umpteen years. But I promise that fades. And the pride that comes with their joy and successes in other ways instantly takes away the sting. For mom and son.

I would counsel to try giving up the sport, and sticking it out until semester break. My Mid was able to integrate even more with his company after leaving his sport. And there are lots of opportunities for peer academic support, that may click better with him, if he has the time. My own 3/C peer tutors. Formally and informally. And connects well with his buddies.

Maybe framing the option as ‘taking a break from his sport’, vs quitting, would also be helpful. He does still have options. But I sure wouldn’t give up a career as a future Marine Officer, for a couple years playing XXX. The financials of it all, at the very least, would say to give this route a try before throwing in the towel.
 
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Capt MJ said:
Yep!
One of our sponsor sons was a member of the “tortures of the damned club” all 4 years, not too many digits above 2.0. Summer school every summer. Varsity sport and schoolwork were all he did. Became a Marine in the finance area, now owns his own investment firm with multiple advisors and is extremely (as in, very very) successful. He had a work ethic like no one I had ever seen. He never took Sunday town liberty, just spent the day with the books. Saturday he would come over, watch sports, eat a good meal, stay overnight if he could, head back to the Yard by 0800. But he wanted Marine with an intensity and drive that powered his resolve, because he didn’t want to let down his Sgt Maj uncle who had injected devil dog into his bloodstream early
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justdoit19 said:
Similar thoughts as @Capt MJ!!

As a mom, I would HIGHLY recommend a chat about long term goals. Yes, a D1 sport is special during your college years. But at expense (potentially) of his future dreams? If he leaves, so does the sport.

If he were mine, I would highly recommend taking a year off from his sport. It’s easy to say that it’s “test taking”. Perhaps it is. But I’m pretty confident, that freeing up the stress/time commitment/mental brain drain/travel/workouts/warmup and cool downs/team meetings and events would at least not make things worse for him.

Kuddos to him for not wanting to let his team and coach down. The reality is, he won’t. Someone will fill his shoes.

I do speak from experience…my own Mid decided to leave his sport that he was recruited for. I was crushed, tbh. Part of it was my letting go of being the bleacher mom I had been for the last umpteen years. But I promise that fads. And the pride that comes with their joy and successes in other ways instantly takes away the sting. For mom and son.

I would counsel to try giving up the sport, and sticking it out until semester break. My Mid was able to integrate even more with his company after leaving his sport. And there are lots of opportunities for peer academic support, that may click better with him, if he has the time. My own 3/C peer tutors. Formally and informally. And connects well with his buddies.

Maybe framing the option as ‘taking a break from his sport’, vs quitting, would also be helpful. He does still have options. But I sure wouldn’t give up a career as a future Marine Officer, for a couple years playing XXX. The financials of it all, at the very least, would say to give this route a try before throwing in the towel.
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Thank you I couldn't agree more. We have gone over the scenarios several times and I think he is more afraid of failing and not having an advocate (Coach) or an excuse of why he is failing rather than being on his own. He realizes there are no excuses other than the material is too difficult for him to grasp. Unfortunately, his self asteem and confidence in himself is shot and that giving up the sport means that he has nothing to offer to the academy and they would separate him.
 
I think your son needs to seriously consider leaving his team, or at least taking a leave of absence from his team to get academics in order. If your son is filing principles of micro or macro he will struggle greatly with further Econ coursework.
 
He should go talk to the people at the Midshipman Development Center. Or the Chaplains (I believe easier to get into). He is talking to himself things that aren’t true. Not logical. Understandable…but not actual reality. And those trained professionals can help with that. There is NO shame in doing a reality check with somone not involved (parents/Coaches) sk intimately. BTW…the Chaplains are fantastic. They won’t recruit him to religion or anything. And can also be a compass for concerned parents (with Mids permission of course).

Could you make a deal with him? Give MDC or Chaplins a shot? Before quitting?? When we are in such a hole, and there doesn’t seem to be a way out, it’s hard to be logical and sensible. But the longer he waits, the deeper the hole.

Hugs….hard to watch from a distance!!
 
justdoit19 said:
He should go talk to the people at the Midshipman Development Center. Or the Chaplains (I believe easier to get into). He is talking to himself things that aren’t true. Not logical. Understandable…but not actual reality. And those trained professionals can help with that. There is NO shame in doing a reality check with somone not involved (parents/Coaches) sk intimately. BTW…the Chaplains are fantastic. They won’t recruit him to religion or anything. And can also be a compass for concerned parents (with Mids permission of course).

Could you make a deal with him? Give MDC or Chaplins a shot? Before quitting?? When we are in such a hole, and there doesn’t seem to be a way out, it’s hard to be logical and sensible. But the longer he waits, the deeper the hole.

Hugs….hard to watch from a distance!!
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He spoke to a Chaplain over the summer when he found out that he had to do 2 blocks of summer school and felt really down and hopeless. He said it was extremely awkward as the Chaplain does not say anything and just listened. He left with little or no guidance at all. Are chaplains only there to listen ? He said it did not go well and will most likely not go back. I can suggest MDC but he will have to find time to do that. It seems that the only solution left at this point is to leave his sport.
 
A huge part of adulting is knowing how to prioritize. That means using clear criteria, weighing the options carefully, and being aware of the ultimate goal. It’s a major aspect of being a midshipman, and eventually an officer — how to choose what’s important now.

So it’s a good time for him to prioritize. He should start with the most important thing: his goal. Is his goal to play a sport at USNA or to commission as an officer. Which one matters more? Simple as that. Not saying it’s easy to do, but the actual thought process is simple. He should boil it down to its essence. And that seems to be the essence.
 
militarymom2020 said:
He said it was extremely awkward as the Chaplain does not say anything and just listened. He left with little or no guidance at all.
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The best decisions occur when the individual comes to their own conclusion, not one given to them by someone else. Great counselors and advisors don’t tell you what to do. They listen and allow you to vent and/or think out loud. They listen and offer you points to ponder. They listen to your thought process and provide redirects if necessary. But the great ones don’t tell you what to do. That’s up to you to figure out, because ultimately it needs to be your decision.
 
militarymom2020 said:
He spoke to a Chaplain over the summer when he found out that he had to do 2 blocks of summer school and felt really down and hopeless. He said it was extremely awkward as the Chaplain does not say anything and just listened. He left with little or no guidance at all. Are chaplains only there to listen ? He said it did not go well and will most likely not go back. I can suggest MDC but he will have to find time to do that. It seems that the only solution left at this point is to leave his sport.
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I’ve actually never heard that at all about the Chaplains. That they are ineffective. And not my own experience either. I myself received some guidance.

Could it be that you are only getting info that he wants you to get? Filtered through his lense? Maybe he really wants out, and is doing his best to make that happen. Idk. It happens.
 
He doesn't want to quit his varsity sport to possibly make a go of it and fix his grades and commission?
Why is he there, then?

The government doesn't care if he supports his coach and teammates. He is there to become an officer. Officers lead men and women to visit swift violence upon our enemies. Officers do their best to keep their enlisted ranks fully trained, outfitted, and alive, to fight again.

That is maybe a little too much tough love right there, but it is the unvarnished truth.
 
Chaplains usually listen and reflect back, guiding the conversation with questions designed to help the midshipman think and work through a problem, its elements and possible solutions. The mid has to do the thinking and reflecting. They won’t get a cookbook to follow.

The Navy and Marine Corps will most definitely have a use for anyone meeting all graded requirements and graduating from USNA, even if they are the Anchor. Playing a sport is a good thing, yes, but it is not the ruling factor here.

Let him continue to sort out his “I can’ts” from his “I won’ts.” He has choices, options and hope if he chooses to have it. It’s not six weeks yet. If he talked to the coach tomorrow, and left the team, with perhaps a cracked-open door, then, with the time that has opened up, double down on peer tutoring, MDC options, EI, his actions would show what he is willing to sacrifice to stay. Then he would know he left it all on the court/floor/field to take his best shot at regaining SAT status and a step closer to a Marine officer uniform. That takes courage and grit and effort - same stuff the Marines are looking for. He will become closer to his company and probably find fellow strugglers. He can do a low time investment company intramural and contribute there.

As far as summer school - that’s next summer, next year. He should focus on the right here and now and take actions to move him toward where he wants to go. He may find he still wants to be a Marine, but USNA is not his path there. That’s okay too.
He can also leave things as they are, possibly end up at an Ac Review Board and let USNA potentially separate him. He has to look in the mirror, decide who he is, and act accordingly.

You hang in there. Tough sledding for your young man, and you can’t solve it for him.
 
Dropping the sport would be a first move--and he needs to realize he may get to the point where that isn't a choice he will get to make.

If Econ isn't working out, it might be early enough to change majors. If it doesn't work out, the Academy will drop him to General Science.

I dealt with a couple of professors that were not as understanding of the military aspect of USNA and "didn't understand" why we weren't always able to put some ridiculous homework assignment first, or why MIDN were exhausted all the time. Condescending during EI. Taught at some Ivy League before, and the students there were just so much better or whatever. Or didn't care whether anyone was understanding the class or not (monotone, soulless delivery read from lecture notes, and out the door as soon as time was up). Find another professor in the department (fellow MIDs know which ones are good--I had really good luck with a lot of the military adjunct instructors), or eat your pride and make the guy work for you.

I had classmates that were AC UNSAT almost every semester, but demonstrated a unique kind of grit to keep going. Summer school every summer, remedials during breaks. Spending Thanksgiving on the Yard to keep studying for 16-week exams or finals. They went to AC boards, were retained, and they graduated--barely, but no one cares after you commission. If he's willing to really squeeze every ounce of effort to make it to the end, I think he'll find the Academy will meet him halfway.

I think most MIDN meet some kind of obstacle during their time like this, whether it's academic, physical, or mental. He's not alone, even if it feels like it.
 
nuensis said:
Dropping the sport would be a first move--and he needs to realize he may get to the point where that isn't a choice he will get to make.

If Econ isn't working out, it might be early enough to change majors. If it doesn't work out, the Academy will drop him to General Science.

I dealt with a couple of professors that were not as understanding of the military aspect of USNA and "didn't understand" why we weren't always able to put some ridiculous homework assignment first, or why MIDN were exhausted all the time. Condescending during EI. Taught at some Ivy League before, and the students there were just so much better or whatever. Or didn't care whether anyone was understanding the class or not (monotone, soulless delivery read from lecture notes, and out the door as soon as time was up). Find another professor in the department (fellow MIDs know which ones are good--I had really good luck with a lot of the military adjunct instructors), or eat your pride and make the guy work for you.

I had classmates that were AC UNSAT almost every semester, but demonstrated a unique kind of grit to keep going. Summer school every summer, remedials during breaks. Spending Thanksgiving on the Yard to keep studying for 16-week exams or finals. They went to AC boards, were retained, and they graduated--barely, but no one cares after you commission. If he's willing to really squeeze every ounce of effort to make it to the end, I think he'll find the Academy will meet him halfway.

I think most MIDN meet some kind of obstacle during their time like this, whether it's academic, physical, or mental. He's not alone, even if it feels like it.
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Thank you so much for that advice. He has had condescending professors and tutors at EI is afraid to even reach out anymore . I will tell him to ask around for another professor that is willing to help and not judge.
 
Excellent advice and counsel in this thread as well as personal stories sharing similar experiences.
First, hugs to mom and dad. This isn’t easy to navigate or handle emotionally I am sure.
Second, the underlying point I hear is that your DS wants to be a Marine officer.

That’s the long pole in the tent as @Capt MJ would say.
What has to happen to make that occur on his current path?
That is for him to decide. But dropping that sport and the time suck that it is may make a huge difference. In addition, not all studying and time spent is effective. Learning to effectively study is a skill many don’t have. Seeking company mates who excel in this skill is key. Tutoring, mentorship, EI with an instructor within the department (my MIDN did this).

I saw my kiddo for six days this summer. He gave up leave for two summer classes to make room for a minor. While it wasn’t awesome for mom and dad, it led to his plan, his goal.
Your kiddo may be repeating habits and study habits that are not helping him and expecting different outcomes. Time to switch it up.
I wish you and he the best. Not an easy path.
 
Time to change it up “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” maybe new study habits, maybe new routine (no sports), maybe new inner circle and the tough one maybe new campus. This all depends on what HE wants. He clearly is no dummy if he made it to the academy, HE needs to find his WHY.
 
I see a common theme in several posts is to eliminate his sport, which I know may be a very tough thing to do.

My son was a recruited athlete, but his decision to attend USNA started when he was in 3rd grade, well before he started his sport. When he started the workouts with his team, he soon learned that the teams's culture was team first. Actually, team "only." As much as he loved the sport and liked the teammates, that culture didn't sit well with him. His attitude was always that he would be a Midshipman first, and an athlete second. He decided to leave the team and do a similar sport at the club level. It wasn't like he was a top blue chip recruit, so the team is doing just fine without him. There was a basketball player in his old company that made every effort to be a part of the company, but there many more varsity athletes that he didn't even know, because they were all about the team, year-round. He doesn't fault those athletes, because he knows first-hand that it is the culture with some of the teams.

Please do not think of this as varsity athlete bashing in any way. They have an extra tier of stress. But your son needs to make a decision... Is he a Midshipman-varsity athlete, or a varsity athlete-Midshipman? Because that decision may very well determine his success, if he decides to stick it out, which I hope he does.
 
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This young man’s situation has got me thinking about all my covers …. How much better off would I be if I got rid of some?

Clearly the sport is his security blanket …. He or someone else should get rid of that thing. It’s not helping him.
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I would wonder if you are getting full and accurate feed back.

professors that don’t help and only scold and chaplains that will listen but have nothing to say——-I wonder what the reality is.

IME as a parent the teachers did a lot to help one of mine that found the course work not easy. Lots of extra help and patience delivering that help including hours on a weekend Is what I saw——from a distance.
 
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