Need Advice- 3C wants to throw in the towel

justdoit19 said:
@militarymom2020 did your son attend NAPS? And if so, how did that go??
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I was curious myself …. I looked at the 2024 USNA Self Appointment thread and it says that her DS is a “Direct” from HS.

If he would have been chosen to attend NAPS, I am thinking that an extra year would have helped him a lot ….

NAPS helped our daughter mature and live on her own.
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Small Team Bacsi said:
I would wonder if you are getting full and accurate feed back.

professors that don’t help and only scold and chaplains that will listen but have nothing to say——-I wonder what the reality is.

IME as a parent the teachers did a lot to help one of mine that found the course work not easy. Lots of extra help and patience delivering that help including hours on a weekend Is what I saw——from a distance.
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Well said, Doc.
 
Is dropping two of the three that he is struggling with an option so he can put more time into one?

Can the teacher and tutor coordinate to give him practice tests? If someone who knows what they were looking at could see his results on the practice tests, maybe they could pinpoint where the issues are before the actual test?
 
It is my understanding that today it is much more difficult to fail academically than it was years ago. USNA tries to set everyone up for success. There are FAR more academic resources than a generation ago. Plebes take one less class (2-3) fewer hours per semester. Grades across the board are higher. Based on feedback from very recent grads, profs are extremely willing to help mids who ask for it. Less than 1% of each class leaves for academics.

The above is not to criticize the OP's DS; rather to state reality.

Being a varsity athlete takes a lot of time. If someone is struggling academically, it may not be possible to continue. One has to ask himself (or herself as the case may be): What is more important to me? Playing my sport at a varsity (or even club level) or graduating from USNA and becoming an officer?

If someone doesn't want to be at USNA unless he / she can play a sport at a high level, and is UNSAT under those circumstances, that person needs to find a school that isn't as challenging academically as USNA. Of course, 2-3 years from now, when that person wants a JOB, having a degree from a school that doesn't actually make you learn anything may not be very helpful.

If the mid wants to stay at USNA, as CAPT MJ says, what is he / she willing to do? What is /she willing to give up? Sport? Leave? ECAs? Weekends at sponsors? Time with GF or BF? How important is graduating?

Only the mid can answer that question. It requires some soul searching. And it starts with accepting personal responsibility and working through the problem. This won't be the only big challenge in life -- it's just the first.
 
Those classes would look like a foreign language to me but I know two things, you can't skip in math and secondly they are testing specific skills that can be learned. He can grasp it but it may be something in previous coursework that is causing problems.
Find a tutor who will assess him first. A tutor who does his homework with him like what a lot of tutoring is may not show what he is missing that is causing him to struggle.
 
Alot of great advice and feedback from those on this thread. I was also once your son in many ways... I was a basketball blue chip recruit, extremely far from home, and come to find out, not very prepared for USNA. I had solid high school scores that put me above average in our class profile... yet it was like a bus ran me over academically. My first semester GPA was 1.66. I dug myself out of that and eventually graduated middle of the pack, had a decent enough basketball career, held some stripes along the way, and became a Marine. Here is my advice to your son.

This comes down to priorities... How much does he want to graduate and commission from USNA? I had to make it up in my mind that the only way I was leaving USNA was when they tossed me out. That meant, if I had to leave my sport, take summer school and miss leave every year, or hire private tutors, I would. If I was tossed out, I knew I had done everything I could along the way. He has to develop this mentality to make it. If this means changing majors to something more his strength, then do it.

Deciding if you will leave your sport is so difficult. Not sure what sport your DS plays (none of my business either), but as a basketball player, we were our own family, support system, etc. We spent 3-6+ hours a day together. We bled together, sweated together, cried together, traveled the country together, picked each other when things sucked, and so much more. I am extremely close to my former team mates and non-basketball room mates at USNA, even to this day. The basketball team also provided me additional academic support. I had some brilliant team mates that helped me. We had a professor that traveled with us sometimes to tutor the Plebes in Chemistry (we missed alot of classes and this was massive to help fill in those missed classes). They also never let us use basketball as an excuse, miss an assignment or give up. If it meant an hour long "class" in the hotel lobby or spreading out nav maps and upperclass helping us do charts, that is what we did. It also meant taking an exam, proctored by our Academic Advisor or O-Rep, during down time when everyone else was napping. It also provided a very disciplined schedule and alot of oversight. So walking away from a sport, is hard. He has to decide if he will improve or not with or without his sport. Only he knows this answer. Give it a 2 week trial.

Go to the Mid Counseling Center or whatever it is called. Go see a therapist. Chaplains are amazing, but he needs to talk this out with a therapist and get to the root cause, help with some positive steps that can help with test anxiety, and help gain some confidence back. He is doubting himself and frustrated. He is own worst enemy right now, being hard on himself and thinking he is stupid. I have no idea what sport he loves, but if I was in a shooting slump, I would watch film, work with a coach, mental exercises. This is the same thing, go get help!

What is his study environment? Its not working. Eliminate distractions such as his phone. Studying more isn't the answer all the time. Its studying the right things and retaining the information. Its being alert and awake in class to absorb the material. So burning the midnight oil is not always the answer. At the Academic Center seek out someone who can help him review his study habits and adjust them. Take summer school every year and remove the hardest class he can. If they let him take 2 classes, do it.

I wish your DS the best of luck. I truly believe your son can make it through USNA, but doing what he always done, will not get him there. He is going to have to do some honest reflection with himself, seek a different type of help than he has before, and decide that he can live with whatever the outcome is that he did all he could.
 
NavyHoops said:
Alot of great advice and feedback from those on this thread. I was also once your son in many ways... I was a basketball blue chip recruit, extremely far from home, and come to find out, not very prepared for USNA. I had solid high school scores that put me above average in our class profile... yet it was like a bus ran me over academically. My first semester GPA was 1.66. I dug myself out of that and eventually graduated middle of the pack, had a decent enough basketball career, held some stripes along the way, and became a Marine. Here is my advice to your son.

This comes down to priorities... How much does he want to graduate and commission from USNA? I had to make it up in my mind that the only way I was leaving USNA was when they tossed me out. That meant, if I had to leave my sport, take summer school and miss leave every year, or hire private tutors, I would. If I was tossed out, I knew I had done everything I could along the way. He has to develop this mentality to make it. If this means changing majors to something more his strength, then do it.

Deciding if you will leave your sport is so difficult. Not sure what sport your DS plays (none of my business either), but as a basketball player, we were our own family, support system, etc. We spent 3-6+ hours a day together. We bled together, sweated together, cried together, traveled the country together, picked each other when things sucked, and so much more. I am extremely close to my former team mates and non-basketball room mates at USNA, even to this day. The basketball team also provided me additional academic support. I had some brilliant team mates that helped me. We had a professor that traveled with us sometimes to tutor the Plebes in Chemistry (we missed alot of classes and this was massive to help fill in those missed classes). They also never let us use basketball as an excuse, miss an assignment or give up. If it meant an hour long "class" in the hotel lobby or spreading out nav maps and upperclass helping us do charts, that is what we did. It also meant taking an exam, proctored by our Academic Advisor or O-Rep, during down time when everyone else was napping. It also provided a very disciplined schedule and alot of oversight. So walking away from a sport, is hard. He has to decide if he will improve or not with or without his sport. Only he knows this answer. Give it a 2 week trial.

Go to the Mid Counseling Center or whatever it is called. Go see a therapist. Chaplains are amazing, but he needs to talk this out with a therapist and get to the root cause, help with some positive steps that can help with test anxiety, and help gain some confidence back. He is doubting himself and frustrated. He is own worst enemy right now, being hard on himself and thinking he is stupid. I have no idea what sport he loves, but if I was in a shooting slump, I would watch film, work with a coach, mental exercises. This is the same thing, go get help!

What is his study environment? Its not working. Eliminate distractions such as his phone. Studying more isn't the answer all the time. Its studying the right things and retaining the information. Its being alert and awake in class to absorb the material. So burning the midnight oil is not always the answer. At the Academic Center seek out someone who can help him review his study habits and adjust them. Take summer school every year and remove the hardest class he can. If they let him take 2 classes, do it.

I wish your DS the best of luck. I truly believe your son can make it through USNA, but doing what he always done, will not get him there. He is going to have to do some honest reflection with himself, seek a different type of help than he has before, and decide that he can live with whatever the outcome is that he did all he could.
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Thank you . He has decided to take a break from the sport starting this week. Coincidentally, it is 6 week exams this week. He is failing every class he has, which are all Math based. He has been working with private tutors and he says the material is too difficult to comprehend. He studies alone in the academic building. Even the extra time he has to study has not helped him. He's hit a wall and doesn't know what to do. Is there someone at the school that can help him get some help?
 
militarymom2020 said:
Thank you . He has decided to take a break from the sport starting this week. Coincidentally, it is 6 week exams this week. He is failing every class he has, which are all Math based. He has been working with private tutors and he says the material is too difficult to comprehend. He studies alone in the academic building. Even the extra time he has to study has not helped him. He's hit a wall and doesn't know what to do. Is there someone at the school that can help him get some help?
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His team has a faculty representative, start there. Mr. Parlette in the AcCenter would also be a good point of contact. Company academics staff can find a tutor in company, too. This place has a tone of support for academics, but your DS must self advocate to find it.

He should also seek counsel from his CO/SEL. Perhaps they have some advice. And, if not, at least they know he is trying. Feel free to PM me specific class details and I can try to point your son in the right direction tutoring wise. I have two notebooks full of notes in both principles classes as well. We can arrange to drop those off anonymously, too.
 
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militarymom2020 said:
Thank you . He has decided to take a break from the sport starting this week. Coincidentally, it is 6 week exams this week. He is failing every class he has, which are all Math based. He has been working with private tutors and he says the material is too difficult to comprehend. He studies alone in the academic building. Even the extra time he has to study has not helped him. He's hit a wall and doesn't know what to do. Is there someone at the school that can help him get some help?
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See link below and work your way through all the drop-down menus and links. There is a massive amount of help available, both general and targeted. The staff and faculty there are learning specialists. They know how to identify and address root causes. They also have help for the mental coaching for success.

Your son has made a huge and tough decision stepping away from his sport and his team family. He now just has to walk through the door of the academic center and lay it all out there. He does not have to do this alone. Given the scale of his challenges right now, it’s time to swallow any pride and openly communicate his need for targeted help. Now. Isolating himself and hearing negative self-talk in his head with no concrete action plan to execute will stall him. He should be communicating with the right people in his company about the steps he is taking to get a handle on his academics. There may be help within the company, his other family. Ditto academic adviser and profs. He has to advocate for himself and take the lead to search out resources and be seen to be fighting tooth and nail to stay.

This is all IF he wants this with every fiber of his being.


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To Mom….one thing I have done over the years, is send a piece of advice from the forums DIRECTLY to my Mid. @Skipper07 is a Mid. @Capt MJ has been there, done that as a USNA (CO? XO? I don’t know the proper verbiage…my apologies to @Capt MJ) leader.

Sending these to my Mid, at the time they were needed, was awesome. Bc I’m mom and have no idea what I’m talking about. But THEY DO. And my Mid appreciated the advice.

Not sure where all that is with your advising your son, but there is some seriously good advice here from people that actually know.

I hope there is some peace soon for everyone. This is no fun. That’s for sure.
 
militarymom2020 said:
Thank you . He has decided to take a break from the sport starting this week. Coincidentally, it is 6 week exams this week. He is failing every class he has, which are all Math based. He has been working with private tutors and he says the material is too difficult to comprehend. He studies alone in the academic building. Even the extra time he has to study has not helped him. He's hit a wall and doesn't know what to do. Is there someone at the school that can help him get some help?
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With him failing every class he has and the material being too tough despite extra study time and help, it may be a situation where he simply won't be able to rebound in time to avoid separation. If that is the case, and as was said earlier, when he goes to see his academic advisor, etc. he may want to start having the conversation now about whether self-separation is a better option as opposed to USNA making that decision for him.

If he isn't quite there yet, as was said by @Capt MJ, going to see the CAE personnel is a must, as well as seeing a more senior advisor in Humanities/SS if he hasn't already:

www.usna.edu

Senior Academic Advisers

Advisers - Senior page for Academics at USNA.edu. Updated Thu Aug 24 07:51:18 EDT 2023.
www.usna.edu

There are many resources to help him, he's just needs to avail himself of them. Hope it all works out.
 
justdoit19 said:
To Mom….one thing I have done over the years, is send a piece of advice from the forums DIRECTLY to my Mid. @Skipper07 is a Mid. @Capt MJ has been there, done that as a USNA (CO? XO? I don’t know the proper verbiage…my apologies to @Capt MJ) leader.

Sending these to my Mid, at the time they were needed, was awesome. Bc I’m mom and have no idea what I’m talking about. But THEY DO. And my Mid appreciated the advice.

Not sure where all that is with your advising your son, but there is some seriously good advice here from people that actually know.

I hope there is some peace soon for everyone. This is no fun. That’s for sure.
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My advice is based on 26 years active duty with 2 commands, a tour as a USNA Battalion Officer (one of 6 post-command senior officers charged with professional development, mentoring and leadership of 1/6 of the Brigade), 25+ years of having sponsor midshipmen and alumni as part of our family (I have a ‘00 grad sitting with me on the sofa right now, she came over for dinner during a TAD to DC, headed to BWI in the AM), married to a USNA grad with 4 commands and 26 years, and a commitment to servant leadership that keeps me busy with wherever I can offer insights and assistance. I do this same kind of thing with a transitioning veteran non-profit where I have 4 active coaching mentees in various phases of leaving the military, serve on boards of two other vet-mil non-profits, and some other cats and dogs in paid consulting. I think this has always been my passion throughout my Navy and corporate careers, and I’m privileged to be able to spend time supporting those who follow the path of service in uniform.

I am continually uplifted by the giving nature and generosity of spirit I see here, especially from the current mids (the “Real Mids of Annapolis” ™️ ) who take time to post with offers of help.
 
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A lot of the Math and Sciences based homework is done where the answers are submitted and interpreted Symbolically, using a Palette of available symbols.

A lot of his entries into the system may be logically correct, but the transformations/interpretation may not allow his particular use of Syntax.

For example, Vectors have several possible formats (I, j, k or < , , >) and Parametric equations can be represented in Vector or Non-vector formats.

There is all kinds of things that can drive a person to go Crazy using these Inorganic Machines.

Thank goodness DD had a year at NAPS where they used these tools throughout.
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In my personal experience at civilian engineering school, Sophomore year (aka 3C year) is always the toughest. When you put on top of that sports, military obligations, mando meals, USNA amplifies the "toughness." Many moons ago, I ran the risk my Sophomore of failing out at my engineering school. I went from top student in HS to pulling low C's in core engineering classes. Junior year, I had a fraternity brother who had the exact same schedule as me, so we became "study" buddies. Everyday we had a spot on campus that we would study together. I pulled my best grades in college during that year. Sorry to hear he made a tough decision to leave sports, but in addition to all the above advice, i also recommend a battle buddy for studying.
 
People learn differently. All of the advice given is excellent but some may not fit with how your DS learns. He needs to find what works for him. But with whatever method he finds, he needs to treat studying like a regimented job - he needs to use his time efficiently. The piece of advice I can give you with respect to engineering classes and physics is do TONS of practice problems. Learning engineering is like becoming proficient at a sport - practice, practice, practice. It helps to have someone critique you but it is a long, solo effort to get there. Good luck to you and your DS.
 
militarymom2020 said:
He studies alone in the academic building. Even the extra time he has to study has not helped him.
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Studying alone is not the best use of your son's time. If he is struggling that much, reading the material on his own will just confuse him that much more. He needs to reach out to anyone and everyone to see where he can get help. He should ask his company, professors, dept heads...

For example, my son in a phsyics major and is the 'unofficial' physics tutor in his company (and his old company...). He is also an 'official' Calc III tutor in the math department with designated hours. But he doesn't reach out to people. They need to find him.
 
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