Need advice

Discussion in 'Service Academy Parents' started by jwoody28, May 20, 2018.

  1. jwoody28

    jwoody28 New Member

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    Our son has been considering attending one of the service academies for a while. Academically he is perfect for the academies and we’ve been working for a nomination.

    He applied to SLE and Summer Seminar and was accepted to both. He’s been practicing for the CFA and today we “administered” the test to see how he would do. After we were done he was upset with the results. He has always been physically fit, but plays offensive line in football (6’1”, 260 lbs). The extra weight he carries for football seriously hurts his performance on the CFA.

    He is at the point of having to make a decision; keep playing HS football at his current weight and risk attending an academy, or begin losing weight to better his chances of passing the CFA but hurt did football abilities.

    The best solution would be the opportunity to play football at an academy, but that is out of his control. Some smaller schools are looking at him for football and he even had a football visit to Navy, but I don’t think and actual “offer” will come out of it.

    Has anyone ever dealt with this? Any advice?
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    @jwoody28 Hard to give any advice without knowing how he scored. Some folks get upset because it's not a perfect score. Some folks are pleased with a 50% score. There is also the question of why he can't play on the line with less weight. I wouldn't think weighing 20-30 pounds less would disqualify him from playing.... especially when he's quicker than the other guy. He's going to need to get below 200 lbs at some point anyway. BTW - he's got a while before he needs the scores submitted to complete his application, unless the MOCs want the scores too. Which academies is he applying to?

    Give us some more insight. Help us to help you. I'm sure many football parents have faced this same issue.
     
  3. jwoody28

    jwoody28 New Member

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    He’s planing on applying to USMA dna USNA.

    Going off memory here, but basketball throw was 65’, did 4 pull-ups, 10.02 shuttle, about 40 pull-ups and sit-ups and. 10 minute mile (which was the most shocking).

    He can bench 315, squat 405 and clean 255. He has great endurance (football wise) as he plays both ways on the line. He could still be effective on the line after losing 30lbs, but nearly as effective. That’s just a fact of football (college coaches aren’t going after 230-250lb linemen).
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    So does he want to go to an academy? Or does he want to play college football? I'm sure things will become clearer when he has his priorities straight, whatever that is for him. There is nothing wrong with any choice but if he wants to attempt both he will undoubtedly need to make compromises.

    I'll let others comment on his scores as they'll be more familiar with expected ranges than I. He can certainly improve pull-ups simply by getting a pull-up bar and using it. It's great what he can do in the weight room but unfortunately that doesn't help with the CFA.
     
  5. KP2020Dad

    KP2020Dad DS - USMMA '20

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    If he wants to attend an academy AND play college football, has he thought about USMMA or USCGA? I know that most high school athletes think D-I or bust, but he could achieve both of his goals if he looks to D-III football. Good luck.
     
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  6. golfindad

    golfindad Member

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    Football "in shape" and CFA "in shape" are different things.

    "but basketball throw was 65’, did 4 pull-ups, 10.02 shuttle, about 40 pull-ups and sit-ups and. 10 minute mile (which was the most shocking)."
    Basketball throw is probably within the average. pull ups are low, 10.02 shuttle is slow, 40 "pull ups--curl ups? and 40 sit ups are low as well. 10 minute mile is high. Just my .02, but, he may want to strive to increase is throw by at least 10', pull ups to 8-10, shuttle drop by a couple seconds and curl up/sir ups increased by 20 or more. He needs to drop a couple minutes on the mile.

    The CFA is an all body fitness test. In order to do well on it, he needs to begin an intensive full body conditioning program. i.e. pull ups are not a test of arm strength alone. Once he has full body strength, his pull ups will increase, and his throw will increase. the throw is actually more core strength than arm strength. core will help curll ups as well. for the push ups--push ups are free. have him do 100 a night, and he will get there. the shuttle and mile--he knows what he needs to do to get those times down--run run run, and practice the shuttle again and again. The 10 minute mile was shocking because the cfa is cumulative, and by the time you get to the mile, you are pretty well wore out. stamina and practice will cure that.

    I do not agree that the cfa and football conditioning are opposite. if you train for the cfa, you will be a stronger, possibly leaner, player, but also quicker.
     
  7. jwoody28

    jwoody28 New Member

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    He plays on the OL and weighs 260. He’s in great shape for someone weighing 260 and playing football. I don’t think I worded the initial post correctly.

    I was wondering if anyone on here had a son that played on the OL in high school, but really wanted to go to an academy. Did they sacrifice football for their Sr year and lose the weight necessary to do well in the CFA? At what point in the application process will he be required to take the CFA? Can he play this year and then lose the weight or will it be too late?
     
  8. Zacharyheller

    Zacharyheller Member

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    My opinion is he should drop weight slowly (around 40 pounds) by adding more cardio after his weightlifting routine and try to maintain the same strength because someone his size should be pushing bigger numbers up. Losing the weight will automatically bring up his CFA scores. Also you need to be under a certain body fat percentage in order not to get kicked out of the academy anyway. Or he could try to get recruited by the football coaches at ether the coast guard or merchant marine academy
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Unless the MOC applications require it, which you should be able to find out online or by phone, then it's not due until the application due date. However, I don't believe he can play at that weight and get to where he needs to be in time. JMPO. Also, by waiting so late something can happen where he doesn't complete the CFA by the deadline. An injury perhaps, which is the usual reason.

    As I think I said earlier, he needs to decide what his priorities are. That's not to say he can't play football. Being in great shape for someone who weighs 260 is not going to help him achieve his goal. Yes, some folks have given up football senior year but that's generally the fear of injury and what that could mean to their application and DoDMERB physical. Others plow through while still doing well on the CFA.

    All just one man's opinion... and I mean it to be supportive.
     
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  10. Harleyboys98

    Harleyboys98 Member

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    OP, I’ll tell you a little about myself and my situation I faced. I’m heading into my senior year. I’ve played football since freshman year, two seasons on varsity. I play defensive end. I’d consider my skill set and speed very good but my size not so much. My school being in the most competitive divisions in the state, I’m not necessarily the “ideal size” a coach would want on his defensive line. Although this might sound shallow, here are the reasons why I started playing football freshman year: for the team comradery, the friendships, the love of the game and coaching staff, the sensation you feel playing underneath the Friday night lights, and quite frankly to get girls. DISCLAIMER: I HAVE NO DESIRE TO PLAY COLLEGE FOOTBALL.

    My coach pulled me aside about a month ago and told me I’m going to need to gain 20 pounds this summer if I ever want to receive playing time come this fall. Currently I weigh 210 pounds. I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve never heard of a 230 pound young man performing 14 pull-ups for the CFA, let alone running a 6 minute mile.

    These past couple weeks I’ve had to do some serious soul searching of whether to play football as a senior. I feel as though my desire to serve as an officer in the world’s greatest navy outweighs my desire to play football senior year. An appointment is something I’ve been pursuing since 6th grade. I’ve come to the conclusion that I am NOT willing to sacrifice a poor/incomplete CFA or a medical injury for football. I would be heart broken if either of these conditions happened to me, jeopardizing my appointment chances. For these reasons, I’ve decided to part ways with the game of football.

    Many of my teammates and coaches call me crazy for my decision. Heck, my own parents don’t agree with my choice either. Their mindset is that I’m sacrificing my last season of high school football for a chance at an appointment, which isn’t even guaranteed. Some may call me crazy but I feel as though I’m investing in my future. After thoughts of where I want to be in 10 years, I do not feel as though my high school experience will be ruined by discontinuing football senior year. I am a few months away from becoming an adult. Therefore there are decisions in my life that I must make, even if they contradict my parents beliefs. No one knows my beliefs and desires more than myself. Whatever decisions I make in life, I’m the one who must live with the consequences, not my parents.

    Although, there were other factors that came into play when making this decision. My biggest one is that I also play varsity baseball for my school which I enjoy more. I will be spending all my freed up time in the fall focusing on my grades(5 AP classes), college applications, continuing my job, working out, improving my baseball swing, and just enjoying high school life. I know for a fact that I will not have any regrets with my decision. I am definitely going to still support the football team from the sidelines during home games.

    I hope this helps!!!
     
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  11. BTCS/USN

    BTCS/USN Member

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    Harleyboys98, don't know all of where you're coming from but Damn sure like the way you think. Any of the academies and the military would be better for your presence with that kind of attitude. Wish you much success in your quest.
     
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  12. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    I am commenting here bc this is our house right now, as summer workouts for football begin Monday! This is the exact scenario at our house, except DS is just completed his Soph year. He was pulled up to varsity Soph year for playoffs (5 time state champs here), so was looking at some good variety playing time going forward. Same thing: doesn’t want to play college. Not interested in gaining weight (counterproductive for my track hurdler and wrestler), wants to concentrate on first love of track, and AP classes next year.

    It was a difficult decision. Probably harder for us as he is our 3rd and last player! What I keep rolling around in my head is how this looks on applications. Is it quitting? Making better choices?

    For you (and DS someday) this is great essay and interview material. So many things and lessons to be gleaned from the tough decision to not play. Good luck to you!!
     
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  13. jwoody28

    jwoody28 New Member

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    Thanks for the last few replies. This is what I was looking for. He’s a good player (not to brag, but all-conference after Soph & Jr years) and playing football is his passion. The boy just loves football. If he were 6-4 instead of 6-1 he would have tons of offers, maybe even Army and Navy. Hopefully SLE and Summer Seminar will help him make his decision.

    Ultimately I’ve decided it’s his choice.
     
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  14. usna1985

    usna1985 10-Year Member

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    Given how well your DS is doing at football, I think USNA at least (can't speak for other SAs) would cut him some slack on the CFA. IOW, they know that, if he's all-conference, he's not sitting around all day eating pizza all day and not working out. The CFA is always considered along with the candidate's other athletic activities (or lack thereof). That said, they need to make sure plebes can handle the physical elements of Plebe Summer, which includes PEP every morning (for everyone, including football players) and lots of running. So, it's a balance.

    Your DS's scores seem very much on the low end across the board. That said, I don't know what someone his size should realistically be able to do. You might have your DS talk to a coach/PE teacher about what scores are realistic for him and what he might do to improve some or all scores without jeopardizing his football career. I don't know how much football he plays over the summer, but he might be able to focus on the CFA and take it before football practice begins in earnest. Alternatively, he could wait until football ends for the year, work on the CFA, and take it before the deadline of Jan. 31.

    Best of luck in whatever he decides.
     
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  15. OldRetSWO

    OldRetSWO USNA 78/parent 11/BGO for >25yrs 5-Year Member

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    Back when the Earth was young and I was at USNA, we were tested on the Mile Run every semester. Passing (Lowest D) was 6:30 and lowest C was 6:10. Plenty of big guys were up the the C or above range and under 6 minutes. The 14 pullups are a little different as I I don't remember many of my classmates hitting that level on our semi-annual "Applied Strength" Test. To me, I think that you are overworrying about maxing the test. In general, I'd rather see a candidate who guts it out for another year on the team and makes a lower (still passing) score than one who quits the sport to practice for the CFA.
     
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  16. random_name

    random_name Member

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    I agree with the practicing all summer then taking the CFA before school starts. My DD wanted to submit her full application before school started but needed upper body work to try and maximize her scores. She practiced hard every day over the summer setting slightly higher goals each time. We had a hundred chalk marks on the driveway from her BB throw practice. Then when she had reached the level she wanted for each item she started practicing them in sequence. She ended up with an excellent CFA just from hard work and dedication every day. Practice the run and events setting little goals each day and you will see improvement.
     
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  17. mom3boys

    mom3boys 10-Year Member

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    Harleyboys98, the only issue I have w/ your decision is that you want to go to Navy! What a mature, thought out senior year! All the best to you!
    Go Army!