Not quite sure how to react to this quote.

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Jcleppe

5-Year Member
Read this quote in an article on CNN this morning. Does the fact that it will be "Over there" and not here some how make it better. I assume they are talking about striking first to prevent future attacks that would reach here, just thought it was worded a little strange.

"There is a military option to destroy North Korea's (missile) program and North Korea itself," Graham said on NBC's "Today" show. "If there's going to be a war to stop them, it will be over there. If thousands die, they're going to die over there, they're not going to die here and (President Donald Trump) told me that to my face."
 

AROTC-dad

Moderator
5-Year Member
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LineInTheSand

USCGA 2006
10-Year Member
Read this quote in an article on CNN this morning. Does the fact that it will be "Over there" and not here some how make it better.
As someone who lives "over here" I'd certainly rather it happen "over there." In that way, I'd say it's better.
 

Maplerock

Proud to be an American
5-Year Member
"If there's going to be a war to stop them, it will be over there."


Are you serious? You think it shocking for someone to say that?

You and everyone else in America would rejoice for any military action to be on foreign soil.

Of course hoping for NO hostilities.
 
Does the fact that it will be "Over there" and not here some how make it better.
To many Americans, yes. Based on the previous thread about NK on this forum, most of the people on this forum don't give a flying fadoodle about the well-being of anyone that isn't an American.

Base someone's worth as a person on a factor they have no control over (where they were born). Kind of reminds me of the exact mindset what allowed the holocaust to happen.
 

Humey

Member
Does the fact that it will be "Over there" and not here some how make it better.
To many Americans, yes. Based on the previous thread about NK on this forum, most of the people on this forum don't give a flying fadoodle about the well-being of anyone that isn't an American.

Base someone's worth as a person on a factor they have no control over (where they were born). Kind of reminds me of the exact mindset what allowed the holocaust to happen.
As a son of a Holocaust survivor, I can tell you that it isnt the same. German Jews werent trying to build a rocket and launch it as the other Germans. I can also tell you the most in the world dont give a flying fadoodle abou the well being of anyone that isnt from their country especially when the other people are actively building rockets that can hit you.
 
As a son of a Holocaust survivor, I can tell you that it isnt the same. German Jews werent trying to build a rocket and launch it as the other Germans. I can also tell you the most in the world dont give a flying fadoodle abou the well being of anyone that isnt from their country especially when the other people are actively building rockets that can hit you.
I didn't say that the holocaust was the same as the current predicament in North Korea. I said that the mindset that people currently have regarding the well-being of people that aren't a part of their "group" is the exact same mindset that allowed the holocaust to happen.

Just because someone else doesn't care about you doesn't mean it is morally acceptable to not care about them. Animals don't care about the well-being of humans. Does this make watching an animal get tortured and doing nothing morally acceptable? A dog wouldn't come help me if I was getting tortured, so do I not have a moral responsibility to help a dog if I see it being tortured?
 

AROTC-dad

Moderator
5-Year Member
I can see this is going to get into a huge ethical debate.

Let's get back to the gist of what the Senator was saying.

In essence:
  • War with North Korea is to avoided unless there is no choice.
  • IF there is to be war then it is the BEST interest of the United States to contain the conflict away from the U.S. Homeland.
Let's keep this discussion on the Senator's statements.
 

Jcleppe

5-Year Member
My question was more in line with the comment "If thousands die, there going to die over there". I was thinking of the 25k plus Soldiers, Airman, and sailors already in Korea, not to mention the thousands more that would be sent. The comment struck me odd that somehow it is better that they die over there then here. I'm pretty sure that LG didn't totally mean that in his comment but it could have been clarified a bit better.
 

Humey

Member
As a son of a Holocaust survivor, I can tell you that it isnt the same. German Jews werent trying to build a rocket and launch it as the other Germans. I can also tell you the most in the world dont give a flying fadoodle abou the well being of anyone that isnt from their country especially when the other people are actively building rockets that can hit you.
I didn't say that the holocaust was the same as the current predicament in North Korea. I said that the mindset that people currently have regarding the well-being of people that aren't a part of their "group" is the exact same mindset that allowed the holocaust to happen.

Just because someone else doesn't care about you doesn't mean it is morally acceptable to not care about them. Animals don't care about the well-being of humans. Does this make watching an animal get tortured and doing nothing morally acceptable? A dog wouldn't come help me if I was getting tortured, so do I not have a moral responsibility to help a dog if I see it being tortured?
No, people have never cared about the well being of people that arent part of their group. That wasnt the cause for teh Holocuast
 

AROTC-dad

Moderator
5-Year Member
"If there's going to be a war to stop them, it will be over there."

You and everyone else in America would rejoice for any military action to be on foreign.
Well, with two sons in the Army, I doubt I would be rejoicing.
There is zero rejoicing in any war.

The reason we need a powerful military is to make the initiation of any war by any enemy something so horrific that it is well worth avoiding.
 

brovol

Member
Does the fact that it will be "Over there" and not here some how make it better.
To many Americans, yes. Based on the previous thread about NK on this forum, most of the people on this forum don't give a flying fadoodle about the well-being of anyone that isn't an American.

Base someone's worth as a person on a factor they have no control over (where they were born). Kind of reminds me of the exact mindset what allowed the holocaust to happen.
To desire safety and security at home first is not contrary to being humanitarian. I am American, and countrymen come first. This is patriotism, and to the extent that others are offended by that, or what they may consider ethnocentric ideologies, too bad. Do I think being an American makes someone "better"? No. But I do believe that being an American citizen means you are entitled to the protection that Americans throughout our nation's history have fought to preserve? He11 Yes!.

American leaders owe Americans the duty to protect our soil, our citizens, our values, our way of life, and our Constitution. Americans pay for a strong military, which includes not only equipment and soldiers, but a strategic plan which reduces the risk of war or lost lives on our own shores and turf. To suggest that maintaining a disposition that it is best to deal with tyrants, dictators and lunatics on their soil, rather than run the greater risk to Americans if we don't, is analogous to "the Holocaust", is not only short sighted, but completely ridiculous.

This "do-gooder", attitude which suggests that Americans must fight under standards of "kindness" against enemies who look almost exclusively at only the most dastardly methods of evil and harm to others, with a special aim at America and American values, needs to end. You are helping nobody. Bullies need to be dealt with for what they are, and where they are.
 
I am American, and countrymen come first. This is patriotism, and to the extent that others are offended by that, or what they may consider ethnocentric ideologies, too bad.
A Nazi could as easily say "I am blonde haired and blue eyed, and blonde haired and blue eyed people come first. This is discrimination, and to the extent that others are offended by that, or what they may consider ethnocentric ideologies, too bad." You don't choose if you are born blonde haired and blue eyed. You also don't choose if you are born in California or North Korea.
Do I think being an American makes someone "better"? No.
You seem to believe that a baby born in California has a life worth more than a baby born in North Korea.
But I do believe that being an American citizen means you are entitled to the protection that Americans throughout our nation's history have fought to preserve? He11 Yes!.
Unearned entitlement from birth is something I do not support.

Taxpayers deserving protection that they paid for? Yeah, I support that.
To suggest that maintaining a disposition that it is best to deal with tyrants, dictators and lunatics on their soil, rather than run the greater risk to Americans if we don't, is analogous to "the Holocaust", is not only short sighted, but completely ridiculous.
Not sure what you are referencing to?

This "do-gooder", attitude which suggests that Americans must fight under standards of "kindness" against enemies who look almost exclusively at only the most dastardly methods of evil and harm to others, with a special aim at America and American values, needs to end. You are helping nobody. Bullies need to be dealt with for what they are, and where they are.
I never stated otherwise.
 
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Dadof2

Member
To many Americans, yes. Based on the previous thread about NK on this forum, most of the people on this forum don't give a flying fadoodle about the well-being of anyone that isn't an American.

I personally wouldn't mind graduating a bit early and taking a visit to the Korean Peninsula...
1337BeachedWhale1337, which is it? Seems like you are on both sides of the NK argument. I hope you aren't intending to try to keep this thread going in circles forever like the last NK thread.
 
1337BeachedWhale1337, which is it? Seems like you are on both sides of the NK argument. I hope you aren't intending to try to keep this thread going in circles forever like the last NK thread.
I believe the US should attack North Korea. This belief does not go against any of the statements I have made in any of my posts on this forum. I'm not sure what you're looking at that appears contradictory.
 

brovol

Member
Do I think being an American makes someone "better"? No.
You seem to believe that a baby born in California has a life worth more than a baby born in North Korea.
But I do believe that being an American citizen means you are entitled to the protection that Americans throughout our nation's history have fought to preserve? He11 Yes!.
Unearned entitlement is something I do not support.
To suggest that maintaining a disposition that it is best to deal with tyrants, dictators and lunatics on their soil, rather than run the greater risk to Americans if we don't, is analogous to "the Holocaust", is not only short sighted, but completely ridiculous.
Not sure what you are referencing to?

This "do-gooder", attitude which suggests that Americans must fight under standards of "kindness" against enemies who look almost exclusively at only the most dastardly methods of evil and harm to others, with a special aim at America and American values, needs to end. You are helping nobody. Bullies need to be dealt with for what they are, and where they are.
I never stated otherwise.
All I can suggest to you my friend is to read what I wrote again, and perhaps slower this time. Nothing confusing there, so no reason for you to misunderstand my position. But if you simply choose to believe I am saying something beyond what has been expressed clearly, so be it. It's a shallow approach to insight, but hey, you are American, so think what you want.

Given the choice of protecting Americans or North Koreans, all other things being equal, dang right I will keep the American safe. If you disagree, then please reconsider your career; assuming you aspire to be an officer in the United States Military. If you are not an American citizen, then I wouldn't expect you to share my sentiments. Either way, no apologies offered. I mean exactly what I said.
 

Jcleppe

5-Year Member
Not contradictory, just a bit scary. How easy it is from your safe classroom to advocate "Attack now!!" I would hope you would look at all options before deciding to start what will result in mass casualties on both sides. You might think differently if you find yourself sitting a mile away from the DMZ.

And so I'm clear, l do think about the loss of American lives a bit more.
 

Maplerock

Proud to be an American
5-Year Member
Why have so many become afraid to admit that we care more about what happens to Americans than we do those from other countries, especially those that mean us harm? That's human nature.

If a natural disaster strikes South America or Indonesia, we're not happy about it... but we are sure happy it didn't hit us.

I don't understand how that comment by POTUS, if true could be criticized, except by those wishing his presidency ill, and trying to discredit him at every turn.
 
All I can suggest to you my friend is to read what I wrote again, and perhaps slower this time. Nothing confusing there, so no reason for you to misunderstand my position.
Please quote the part of your post that I misread.
It's a shallow approach to insight, but hey, you are American, so think what you want.
is not only short sighted, but completely ridiculous.
Insulting my argument rather than attacking it doesn't really provide any meaningful information to anyone.
Given the choice of protecting Americans or North Koreans, all other things being equal, dang right I will keep the American safe.
Clearly you place patriotism over morality and ethics. To each his own.
If you disagree, then please reconsider your career
No.
If you are not an American citizen, then I wouldn't expect you to share my sentiments.
I am an American citizen, I simply value humanity over country.
Either way, no apologies offered. I mean exactly what I said.
I'm not sure what you are referencing to? Nothing has been said on this thread so far warranting an apology.
 
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