NROTC and MO

USMCGrunt said:
The "textbook" version: The mission of the Marine Corps rifle squad is to locate, close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, or repel the enemy assault by fire and close combat.
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In my early days stationed with the Marines, late 70s-early 80s, I was told and heard that all MOSs and billets in the Marine Corps existed to support the 0311. Including mine. No, especially mine. All jobs from pilot to pay clerk and from mortars to Motor-T. I got back in the mid-90s as a Chief and then Senior Chief and was the one telling people that.

I got to CBIRF in 2000 and the sergeant major and I became immediate foes. I couldn't stand him and likewise for his opinion of me. I wasn't alone as the other two E-8s in the command felt the same. It got to the point one day I told him. "You know sergeant major, if it weren't for me and my corpsmen this unit would not exist. The Marines here support me, not the other way around."

I thought he would have a stroke. He stuttered and stammered until I turned around and walked out shaking my head.
 
nrotcmid23 said:
Your grades and SAT scores are good enough where I would suggest going for a tier-3 major if that's what you want. Something to remember is that yes, applying for tier 3 does lower your chances of getting a scholarship, but there are still plenty of people who get tier 3 scholarships (myself included). There is a possibility that you are in a position where you could get a tier 2 major, but won't be able to get the tier 3 major, but there's absolutely no way of knowing if that is the case.

Another thing to think about is what is your worse case plan? Can you put yourself through the first year of college as a college programmer (whether by yourself or with financial aid), or do you need a scholarship?

If you have any questions about NROTC feel free to PM me/post them here.
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ProudDad17 said:
I'll echo the above, do not apply for a tier 1 or 2 major if it does not interest you. You will be happier and more successful studying something that interests you. Yes, there are fewer tier 3 scholarships awarded, but also fewer people applying with tier 3 majors. You may be able to win one of these scholarships. If not, if you end up going NROTC, you could do the first year as a college programmer without a scholarship, work your butt off to show your motivation and potential and apply for a 3 year side load scholarship.
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I do have a couple of worst case plans. I'm applying to a couple of in-state schools where I'll have Zell-Miller scholarship that covers all tuition. I'm also applying to out-of-state schools though. If I end up going to one of those I'm fortunate enough that my parents have a college fund saved up for me, and I have some money saved up from a job. I don't think its enough to get by for all four years, but it could get me through a year of tuition handily.

I don't have any direct questions (but do have one below) at the moment but if I think of one I'll be sure to PM, always good to get first-hand info.

Both of you mention doing the first year as a college programmer. I've considered this, but it also worries me. I've heard somewhere (don't remember if it was a reputable source or not) that now I'd be competing against all four-year applicants, but if I apply for three-year while in college I'd be competing against others at my college. That concerns me since some of the colleges I'm looking at attract really smart people with better credentials than I, so I fear getting "roped into" ROTC at a college where a 3-year scholarship is very useful, only to get rejected as a result of fierce competition. Can somebody verify if that's true? It seems counter-intuitive to not compete against a national pool of 3-year applicants but I can't shake the feeling that I've read what I remembered here before.
 
eaab08 said:
I do have a couple of worst case plans. I'm applying to a couple of in-state schools where I'll have Zell-Miller scholarship that covers all tuition. I'm also applying to out-of-state schools though. If I end up going to one of those I'm fortunate enough that my parents have a college fund saved up for me, and I have some money saved up from a job. I don't think its enough to get by for all four years, but it could get me through a year of tuition handily.

I don't have any direct questions (but do have one below) at the moment but if I think of one I'll be sure to PM, always good to get first-hand info.

Both of you mention doing the first year as a college programmer. I've considered this, but it also worries me. I've heard somewhere (don't remember if it was a reputable source or not) that now I'd be competing against all four-year applicants, but if I apply for three-year while in college I'd be competing against others at my college. That concerns me since some of the colleges I'm looking at attract really smart people with better credentials than I, so I fear getting "roped into" ROTC at a college where a 3-year scholarship is very useful, only to get rejected as a result of fierce competition. Can somebody verify if that's true? It seems counter-intuitive to not compete against a national pool of 3-year applicants but I can't shake the feeling that I've read what I remembered here before.
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As a college freshman, you could re-apply for the 4 year national scholarship. This is generally done after your first semester grades are posted. In this case, you would be competing nationally with high school seniors and other college freshman. Because of the timing of this, even though it is a 4 year scholarship, you would generally only get to use 3 years of it, although I believe I have heard of some college programmers being able to use 3 1/2 years. By the way, there are college freshmen in the applicant pool applying for the 4 year scholarship you are applying for right now.

If you do not get the 4 year scholarship awarded as a freshman, you would then apply for a 3 year side load scholarship at the end of your freshman year. Again, this is a national competition, not unit based. If you are not awarded a 3 year side load, you could return as a college programmer for your sophomore year and apply for a 2 year side load at the end of your sophomore year. If you do not get the 2 year, you would apply for Advanced Standing, which does not pay tuition, but gives you a living and book stipend.

For what it's worth, everyone who continued in my DS' unit was able to secure at least a 2 year scholarship. Be willing to put in the work and show you deserve it.

You have excellent academics, but appear to be light on the leadership. The idea is for you to get into the unit and show your potential as a leader before re-applying. Also, when you go for your interviews, don't sell yourself short. There are lots of ways to practice leadership besides being captain of a sports team. Think about how you demonstrated leadership for your academic team. Even if you weren't a captain of the swim team, did you act as a leader, keeping people focused and motivated. There are lots of ways to be an informal leader without a title. What leadership do you demonstrate on your club board? Any civic involvement, church involvement, mentoring, etc that you do that demonstrates leadership?
 
So things changed after last year, as far as I know. In either scenario you will compete against midshipmen across the nation, not just your college. I'm not even sure the 4 year scholarship option is still available to midshipmen . There is always a chance you will not get a scholarship since it is a competition and nothing is guaranteed. Perhaps NROTC without a scholarship at a more affordable institution is the more viable option.

That being said my DS took the college programmer route and was awarded a 2.5 year scholarship during his sophomore year. He did it by applying himself to the tasks at hand like never before. He made sure he made the Dean's list each semester, maxed the final record PFT each semester, volunteered whenever there was a chance, and nailed his two stints as a squad leader at that point. If it's possible for my solid B high-school son to do it then, trust me, it's possible for you to do it.

There are backup plans beyond that too
1. Advanced standing, settling for the monthly stipend
2. Platoon Leader's course.
3. Officer's Candidate Course for college graduates.

There is more than one way to skin this cat.
 
As far as I remember, I think things changed for Marine option where college freshmen could not re-apply for the 4 year scholarship, but Navy option still could. I could be wrong, or that could have changed. OP, check on that yourself if you want to know for sure, but just know any NROTC scholarship is a national competition.
 
ProudDad17 said:
As far as I remember, I think things changed for Marine option where college freshmen could not re-apply for the 4 year scholarship, but Navy option still could. I could be wrong, or that could have changed. OP, check on that yourself if you want to know for sure, but just know any NROTC scholarship is a national competition.
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You might be right. I know something changed. Maybe @Go Dores! can clarify.
 
ProudDad17 said:
As a college freshman, you could re-apply for the 4 year national scholarship. This is generally done after your first semester grades are posted. In this case, you would be competing nationally with high school seniors and other college freshman. Because of the timing of this, even though it is a 4 year scholarship, you would generally only get to use 3 years of it, although I believe I have heard of some college programmers being able to use 3 1/2 years. By the way, there are college freshmen in the applicant pool applying for the 4 year scholarship you are applying for right now.

If you do not get the 4 year scholarship awarded as a freshman, you would then apply for a 3 year side load scholarship at the end of your freshman year. Again, this is a national competition, not unit based. If you are not awarded a 3 year side load, you could return as a college programmer for your sophomore year and apply for a 2 year side load at the end of your sophomore year. If you do not get the 2 year, you would apply for Advanced Standing, which does not pay tuition, but gives you a living and book stipend.

For what it's worth, everyone who continued in my DS' unit was able to secure at least a 2 year scholarship. Be willing to put in the work and show you deserve it.

You have excellent academics, but appear to be light on the leadership. The idea is for you to get into the unit and show your potential as a leader before re-applying. Also, when you go for your interviews, don't sell yourself short. There are lots of ways to practice leadership besides being captain of a sports team. Think about how you demonstrated leadership for your academic team. Even if you weren't a captain of the swim team, did you act as a leader, keeping people focused and motivated. There are lots of ways to be an informal leader without a title. What leadership do you demonstrate on your club board? Any civic involvement, church involvement, mentoring, etc that you do that demonstrates leadership?
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kinnem said:
So things changed after last year, as far as I know. In either scenario you will compete against midshipmen across the nation, not just your college. I'm not even sure the 4 year scholarship option is still available to midshipmen . There is always a chance you will not get a scholarship since it is a competition and nothing is guaranteed. Perhaps NROTC without a scholarship at a more affordable institution is the more viable option.

That being said my DS took the college programmer route and was awarded a 2.5 year scholarship during his sophomore year. He did it by applying himself to the tasks at hand like never before. He made sure he made the Dean's list each semester, maxed the final record PFT each semester, volunteered whenever there was a chance, and nailed his two stints as a squad leader at that point. If it's possible for my solid B high-school son to do it then, trust me, it's possible for you to do it.

There are backup plans beyond that too
1. Advanced standing, settling for the monthly stipend
2. Platoon Leader's course.
3. Officer's Candidate Course for college graduates.

There is more than one way to skin this cat.
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Its a relief to hear that the three-year scholarship isn't as competitive as I thought. That's a good point about being able to reapply for four-year too, I kind of assumed you would apply for a different scholarship each year but... the website says what it says, something along the lines of no more than 30 credit hours, well less than one semester of college.

I think I usually okay in interviews, really nervous beforehand but the interview usually transitions into something like a conversation and I get a lot more comfortable. Unfortunately my XC team doesn't have official captains and my swim team typically chooses the captain based on speed alone, despite the fact that the fastest swimmers tend to swim separately from 80% of the team... oh well. I still try to be a leader and role model for my sports teams and in academic team, so if probed on my leadership I wouldn't blank. My club board position was wholly unimpressive but I did some library volunteering that put me in a leadership position (albeit to elementary school students, but I might leave that part out). So overall more leadership than my application shows, I made sure to talk about leadership in some of my essays in a natural way to compensate in a way.

For sure! I think at this point there are many paths to being an officer, so many that I feel very strongly I'll be one at some point. Right now I'm just trying to find the one that will be most enjoyable, and put me in the least debt while I'm at it.

I couldn't find anything for MO, but after making this forum I think its pretty clear to me that I should be applying both NO and Army. I'd apply AFROTC too, but I don't think any of the schools I'm applying to offer it.
 
Devil Doc said:
General Mattis also advises us to always carry a knife. "You never know when you might have to kill someone and there might be cheesecake.
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Great Advice from the General, but don't ask him about investment strategy. Someone needs to ask him about the Theranos.
 
Your stats are amazing. coming from a current tier 3 senior in NROTC, it is the best choice i have ever made to not go into anything STEM in college. You should go ahead and apply for tier 3. You will have a very hard time being happy studying stuff you do not want in tier1/2, which will make college and NROTC unnecessarily difficult.
 
Quick update:
Got into GT EA, and recently been recommended (offered?) an ISR for NROTC. Still not sure if it's guaranteed or not especially since I haven't officially finished the app or DoDMERB, but it's certainly a good sign. Intended major I applied under is Economics (tier 2 I think, maybe tier 3) , but I might do engineering still have't quite decided. Also finished the AROTC application completely except for DoDMERB part, this might change depending on the ROTC available at the school+ personal preference but I'm currently leaning towards Navy.
There are some other schools I'm applying to but at the moment GT seems likely. Got a rejection from one of my nom sources and haven't heard back from the two others. I'll probably post another update when the decisions have come in and I know for sure where I'm going.
 
eaab08 said:
Quick update:
Got into GT EA, and recently been recommended (offered?) an ISR for NROTC. Still not sure if it's guaranteed or not especially since I haven't officially finished the app or DoDMERB, but it's certainly a good sign. Intended major I applied under is Economics (tier 2 I think, maybe tier 3) , but I might do engineering still have't quite decided. Also finished the AROTC application completely except for DoDMERB part, this might change depending on the ROTC available at the school+ personal preference but I'm currently leaning towards Navy.
There are some other schools I'm applying to but at the moment GT seems likely. Got a rejection from one of my nom sources and haven't heard back from the two others. I'll probably post another update when the decisions have come in and I know for sure where I'm going.
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Finish that application. It's still necessary to do so. Good luck.
 
Hello,
Our son is a freshman at UGA and is in the Army ROTC program. He was admitted to Georgia Tech as well. He absolutely loves UGA and is in the Honors College as a Finance Major. The business school is stunning and top notch, along with everything at UGA. He had no interest in going to Georgia Tech except that he wanted to be a Marines officer.

At first, our son would ~only~ try for the Marines ROTC scholarship. He had the top fitness score, top academics, great sports and decent leadership. He did not receive a Marines ROTC scholarship - indeed, they are looking for that special intangible quality.

When our son toured UGA, he decided to apply for the Army ROTC scholarship. His love for his University and relationships/opportunities he's receiving there will endure for his whole life. We feel like the discipline and leadership training is excellent for him. He is also in a fraternity, which is very time consuming at UGA.

Regarding Army ROTC, we are very impressed with the opportunities for "branching" (what you are assigned upon commissioning) and believe the leadership training is unparalleled. The UGA Bulldog Battalion has the #2 and #3 top ROTC Cadets in the current senior class of all ROTC cadets. They are both branching Infantry. Out of 10 seniors, the UGA Bulldog Battalion has 3 branching Infantry and 2 branching Military Intelligence.

The Army offers many, many awesome opportunities for newly commissioned officers graduating from college.

A distinguished military graduate (top 25%) Army ROTC senior that we spoke with last year at UGA got to spend a month in Paraguay and go in a Black Hawk heliocopter.

What I have learned from the forum is that you select the university where you will best flourish because the ROTC battalions will not vary much. You also, of course, need to know which branch of the military you are interested in.

I'm sure my son would be happy to talk with you about being in the Army ROTC program at UGA. Our son was awarded the 4-year Army ROTC scholarship and it seems to me that you have the profile of a 4-year scholarship recipient and you would be well qualified to earn a scholarship if you were to join the college program.
 
Mousie29 said:
The Army offers many, many awesome opportunities for newly commissioned officers graduating from college.
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I've always said that the Army is the most attractive option for any one starting out unless they know for sure they want to fly fixed wing aircraft or go to sea.

Glad things are working out so well for your DS. My DS received a 4 year to GA Tech, but was put off by the Chairman of the Chem E Department. He transferred the scholarship to 10 State U.
 
Mousie29 said:
Hello,
Our son is a freshman at UGA and is in the Army ROTC program. He was admitted to Georgia Tech as well. He absolutely loves UGA and is in the Honors College as a Finance Major. The business school is stunning and top notch, along with everything at UGA. He had no interest in going to Georgia Tech except that he wanted to be a Marines officer.

At first, our son would ~only~ try for the Marines ROTC scholarship. He had the top fitness score, top academics, great sports and decent leadership. He did not receive a Marines ROTC scholarship - indeed, they are looking for that special intangible quality.

When our son toured UGA, he decided to apply for the Army ROTC scholarship. His love for his University and relationships/opportunities he's receiving there will endure for his whole life. We feel like the discipline and leadership training is excellent for him. He is also in a fraternity, which is very time consuming at UGA.

Regarding Army ROTC, we are very impressed with the opportunities for "branching" (what you are assigned upon commissioning) and believe the leadership training is unparalleled. The UGA Bulldog Battalion has the #2 and #3 top ROTC Cadets in the current senior class of all ROTC cadets. They are both branching Infantry. Out of 10 seniors, the UGA Bulldog Battalion has 3 branching Infantry and 2 branching Military Intelligence.

The Army offers many, many awesome opportunities for newly commissioned officers graduating from college.

A distinguished military graduate (top 25%) Army ROTC senior that we spoke with last year at UGA got to spend a month in Paraguay and go in a Black Hawk heliocopter.

What I have learned from the forum is that you select the university where you will best flourish because the ROTC battalions will not vary much. You also, of course, need to know which branch of the military you are interested in.

I'm sure my son would be happy to talk with you about being in the Army ROTC program at UGA. Our son was awarded the 4-year Army ROTC scholarship and it seems to me that you have the profile of a 4-year scholarship recipient and you would be well qualified to earn a scholarship if you were to join the college program.
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cb7893 said:
I've always said that the Army is the most attractive option for any one starting out unless they know for sure they want to fly fixed wing aircraft or go to sea.

Glad things are working out so well for your DS. My DS received a 4 year to GA Tech, but was put off by the Chairman of the Chem E Department. He transferred the scholarship to 10 State U.
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That's the thing, both of y'all talked about army. I'm very close to calling my recruiter to decline the ISR just because I might end up at Army ROTC if I change my mind, don't get into a service academy, or go to a specific college.
@Mousie29 (or anybody else who can answer)- You mentioned that UGA had the #2 and #3 cadets- what does this mean? Are you referring to the ranking used to determine who gets stationed where upon graduation? If so, what is it based on? I'm sure GPA is of importance, but other than that not sure what else factors in. Major? Commanding officer opinion? Some other things? I ask because I was hoping to be able to learn a foreign language while in school. Being high in the ranking to get 1st or second choice of deployment in a place where that language is prevalent would be nice for practice.
 
There is the Order of Merit List (OML) in AROTC and all ROTC participants including the top 10 participants are ranked. Here is an article from last year's top 10 directly from the Army. Yes these top 10 get their choice of where to serve.

www.army.mil

Cadet Command names its top 10 seniors for 2019

Ten college seniors from universities across the country have been selected by Cadet Command as the top Army Reserve Officer Training Corps cadets for its annual national order-of-merit list.
www.army.mil www.army.mil

Quick guidance - choose your branch based on where you want to serve after commission vs any pressures you're now under for a decision. Army is indeed outstanding (proud son of an Army Korea-era veteran, cousin of Army active duty physician). Navy is outstanding - proud Nephew of a Navy Vietnam vet, grandson of a WWII officer, son-in-law of a signal corps member, , brother-in-law of Navy electrical engineer - all honorably discharged veterans and father of current NROTC trainee).

What role do you want to serve and as others said if flying do you want fixed v rotating wing. Research the missions of each branch. That over who has the best ROTC program may be important in your bigger picture.

Good luck to you and congrats on the ISR. while you were pressured by those who only want to give you the ISR if you'll use it, I would confirm the actual rules - I think you can accept it and then turn it down if you get into an academy instead. You should confirm your restrictions on accepting then turning down later for another branch. Just remember it's binary - it either is or is not binding and if you have the option to accept it but later turn it down to serve another way, then you are welcome to exercise that option. Just find out and act accordingly - the system is what it is in allowing people to accept and then later decline these options. Just look out for yourself and good luck. If you wish to honor a made-up rule that someone put in front of you that says they'll only offer if you accept - I would not let that be your guide - I would let the actual rules be your guide. This is a great early lesson in not being jerked around by false crisis/ emergencies or (I'm thinking of another word that rhymes with pull-spit).

Good luck.
 
This was DS' experience with his ISR offer 4 years ago. He was asked, if offered the ISR, would he commit to using it. The CO explained that this was not a legally binding commitment, but his word of honor. It was further explained, that he was welcome to accept the ISR and later turn it down with no hard feelings if he was appointed to a service academy (he wasn't applying to any SA). The CO explained that he only had a few ISRs he could award and wanted to be sure they would be used and that by offering DS an ISR, he was putting his own personal recommendation and "stamp of approval" on DS' potential, so his own reputation was somewhat tied to my DS. CO asked DS not to accept the ISR if he was not certain NROTC was the path he wanted to follow (or an SA), so that it could be awarded to someone who was certain of the NROTC path. Again, it was made clear this was not legally binding, as any NROTC scholarship recipient can decline a scholarship or drop out of the program up until they begin their second year. I'd suggest you examine where your heart is and what you want, as well as confirm any legal aspects. This is a bird in the hand. There is no guarantee of an NROTC or AROTC scholarship offer from the regular boards and no guarantee of an SA appointment, but if you are competitive for an ISR, you should be in serious consideration for one of these paths.
 
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