Principle Nomination?
- Thread starter molloy09
- Start date
Just_A_Mom
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 4,774
your MOC will submit a list of up to 10 names.
The academy will evalutate all the applications of the names on the list and assign a whole candidate score to each name. The academy will then rank the list according to merit.
The person on the list with the highest ranking will be offered the appointment unless that candidate is not qualified either scholastically, medically or physically.
If the candidate is not qualified or rejects the appointment then the next person on the list will be offered the appointment.
Your chances of receiving your MOC's appointment are directly proportional to how high you rank on the list.
IF you are not highest ranked and don't get the appointment then you will compete against all other candidates from the entire country to fill the alternate spots that are available.
The academy will evalutate all the applications of the names on the list and assign a whole candidate score to each name. The academy will then rank the list according to merit.
The person on the list with the highest ranking will be offered the appointment unless that candidate is not qualified either scholastically, medically or physically.
If the candidate is not qualified or rejects the appointment then the next person on the list will be offered the appointment.
Your chances of receiving your MOC's appointment are directly proportional to how high you rank on the list.
IF you are not highest ranked and don't get the appointment then you will compete against all other candidates from the entire country to fill the alternate spots that are available.
usna1985
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,503
^^^^^
Agree fully. My understanding is that most MOCs do not rank or give principle noms -- just a slate of 10 names. USNA, at least, prefers this because it gives them the most flexibility in forming a class.
If you look at the numbers, about 3/4 of USNA candidates who are triple qualified and receive at least one nom are offered appointments. So your chances are good. However, it is also true that, every year, several hundred triple Q'ed candidates with a nom are not offered appointments.
I'm sure the waiting is difficult. Remember that many candidates who are offered appointments won't hear until close to or even on April 15th. So don't despair.
Agree fully. My understanding is that most MOCs do not rank or give principle noms -- just a slate of 10 names. USNA, at least, prefers this because it gives them the most flexibility in forming a class.
If you look at the numbers, about 3/4 of USNA candidates who are triple qualified and receive at least one nom are offered appointments. So your chances are good. However, it is also true that, every year, several hundred triple Q'ed candidates with a nom are not offered appointments.
I'm sure the waiting is difficult. Remember that many candidates who are offered appointments won't hear until close to or even on April 15th. So don't despair.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3
OK. What if you do have the highest "whole person score" on that 10 person list, but have a medical DQ? As I understand it, that is the point at which you are considered for a medical waiver. Or given a conditional offer of appointment?
Just_A_Mom
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Messages
- 4,774
For USMA and USNA - the candidate does not have to request a waiver - but I think for USAFA the dq'd candidate must initiate the waiver request.
In any case - yes the waiver will be sought and admissions will wait for that. I think actually USNA and USMA may seek a waiver sooner - for USMA the guideline they use is "IF you are competitive for the academy or any of it's programs" - that would include prep school and "civil" prep scholarship program.
Also, if he candidate did not physically qualify on the CFA they academy may give the candidate an opportunity to retake the CFA.
Last year my daughter was disqualified. She got a letter from USMA the end of Feb informing her the academy was going to seek a waiver for her DQ. A week later she got another letter saying the waiver was approved.
I believe that USCGA will make a "conditional appointment" but I do not think that USMA, USNA or USAFA do (other than an LOA). If so then someone will correct me....
In any case - yes the waiver will be sought and admissions will wait for that. I think actually USNA and USMA may seek a waiver sooner - for USMA the guideline they use is "IF you are competitive for the academy or any of it's programs" - that would include prep school and "civil" prep scholarship program.
Also, if he candidate did not physically qualify on the CFA they academy may give the candidate an opportunity to retake the CFA.
Last year my daughter was disqualified. She got a letter from USMA the end of Feb informing her the academy was going to seek a waiver for her DQ. A week later she got another letter saying the waiver was approved.
I believe that USCGA will make a "conditional appointment" but I do not think that USMA, USNA or USAFA do (other than an LOA). If so then someone will correct me....
The answer to both questions would be "Yes".
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2008
- Messages
- 170
more than one nomination?
On her application instructions, Senator Clinton stated:
"Because it is possible to receive a nomination from more than one source and nominations are limited, I request as a matter of courtesy that you inform my office immediately of any other nominations you may receive to a service academy."
My son, as per Senator Clinton's request, advised her office that he received a nomination from his congressman. Did this hurt his chances for appointment?
On her application instructions, Senator Clinton stated:
"Because it is possible to receive a nomination from more than one source and nominations are limited, I request as a matter of courtesy that you inform my office immediately of any other nominations you may receive to a service academy."
My son, as per Senator Clinton's request, advised her office that he received a nomination from his congressman. Did this hurt his chances for appointment?
usna1985
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,503
^^^^
It shouldn't. USNA at least is typically aware of geographic regions where MOCs won't "double up" on noms. IOW, if you get a nom from any MOC to a particular SA, the other MOCs won't consider you for that SA. The reason, of course, is that there are so many qualified candidates that they want to spread out the wealth. We can debate whether that's a good or bad thing overall, but it is what it is.
I'm not sure what, at this point, Sen. Clinton can do about your son's situation. If he notified the Senator prior to Jan. 31, she could have amended her slate to drop your son and add someone who did not have another nom. Not saying this occurred, but it could have.
However, as noted, the SAs typically understand how this process works in certain areas and that shouldn't impact his chance.
It shouldn't. USNA at least is typically aware of geographic regions where MOCs won't "double up" on noms. IOW, if you get a nom from any MOC to a particular SA, the other MOCs won't consider you for that SA. The reason, of course, is that there are so many qualified candidates that they want to spread out the wealth. We can debate whether that's a good or bad thing overall, but it is what it is.
I'm not sure what, at this point, Sen. Clinton can do about your son's situation. If he notified the Senator prior to Jan. 31, she could have amended her slate to drop your son and add someone who did not have another nom. Not saying this occurred, but it could have.
However, as noted, the SAs typically understand how this process works in certain areas and that shouldn't impact his chance.
greeneagle5
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
- Messages
- 347
Only 1 needed
Son received a senatorial nom early this winter (as well as an offer of appointment to USNA over Christmas)then received his rep's nom in mid- Jan ........son's grandad,USMA class of 48, and an old hat at MOC academy nom selection boards, suggested that his grandson write the Representative as a courtesy to inform her that he had already been offered the appointment and the nom might be used for another deserving candidate in her district.... son complied and 2 weeks later that "extra" nom disappeared off son's USNA CIS page
Son received a senatorial nom early this winter (as well as an offer of appointment to USNA over Christmas)then received his rep's nom in mid- Jan ........son's grandad,USMA class of 48, and an old hat at MOC academy nom selection boards, suggested that his grandson write the Representative as a courtesy to inform her that he had already been offered the appointment and the nom might be used for another deserving candidate in her district.... son complied and 2 weeks later that "extra" nom disappeared off son's USNA CIS page
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 2,925
My MOC used the Principal/Alternate Nominee system, and 20+ years have gone by, hence my questions:
1) What would make a MOC choose one system over the other? To me, it seems easier to simply send a slate of 10 names (presumably the 10 best among those who applied) to USxA and let the Academy choose from among them. Why would a MOC choose to rank them, instead?
2) For the sake of clarity, when a MOC submits the slate of 10 candidates, are they all equally nominated, or does some kind of feedback loop exist between USxA and the MOC after the list arrives at the Academy and the selection process begins?
1) What would make a MOC choose one system over the other? To me, it seems easier to simply send a slate of 10 names (presumably the 10 best among those who applied) to USxA and let the Academy choose from among them. Why would a MOC choose to rank them, instead?
2) For the sake of clarity, when a MOC submits the slate of 10 candidates, are they all equally nominated, or does some kind of feedback loop exist between USxA and the MOC after the list arrives at the Academy and the selection process begins?
Most likely, not.
Well, I hope you are right. I am afraid this answer may depend on whose district one lives in. It's probably LESS likely with senators, as they have a much larger constituency and less personal contact/knowledge of personalities within their district. With representatives, it has, in my own opinion, a greater likelihood of being possible.
I was wrong to completely generalize my statement. I speak only from personal experience with our own congressman. Sure seems like those with principal noms have the same names as the powerhouse political people in this district.
Not always. But definitely sometimes.
I was in a snarky mood when I posted it, and should have been more thoughtful!
According to USNA, less than 30% choose the primary method. Some even allow the boards themselves to select the method, based on their findings.
Most, if not all, MOCs appoint a board to do the selection process. A bipartisan board composed of both civilians and retired military personnel, and often including educators. I find it difficult to believe, that with these checks and balances, that politics is a widespread issue. Like you said, maybe isolated. The Academies, of course, like to make the final determination and, thusly, track the 'primaries' very closely.
Most, if not all, MOCs appoint a board to do the selection process. A bipartisan board composed of both civilians and retired military personnel, and often including educators. I find it difficult to believe, that with these checks and balances, that politics is a widespread issue. Like you said, maybe isolated. The Academies, of course, like to make the final determination and, thusly, track the 'primaries' very closely.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2007
- Messages
- 17
In my experience, every thing has been pretty non-partisan in the selection process, and real professional. As long as you are polite and honest with the selection board, they are going to be fair in their selections. 
And I agree, in Arizona at least, I haven't heard of anyone getting a principal; everyone is put on a competitive list.
And I agree, in Arizona at least, I haven't heard of anyone getting a principal; everyone is put on a competitive list.- Joined
- Jan 29, 2008
- Messages
- 277
Maybe not from Arizona, but there are some that have posted here and on CC that have said they got principals from their MOC.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2007
- Messages
- 86
My Mid was a principal nominee for our Congressman and on the competitive slate for one Senator. I can assure you that no politics came into play. We have no acquaintances politically connected and have never given any $$ to either one, nor share the same political ideologies.
All three interviews were conducted on "neutral" ground - at local high school and college. None of the MOC's were present. The board was local businessmen, educators and military. No staffers were on the selection board.
At both receptions (we were invited to both the Senators and Congressman's receptions for appointees) it did not appear that either the Senator or Congressman had any prior relationship with any of the appointees or their parents.
We too had the impression when starting the nomination process that it would be very political and felt that our son would be at a disadvantage. After going through the process, we found the entire process to be free of politics and conducted very fairly.
All three interviews were conducted on "neutral" ground - at local high school and college. None of the MOC's were present. The board was local businessmen, educators and military. No staffers were on the selection board.
At both receptions (we were invited to both the Senators and Congressman's receptions for appointees) it did not appear that either the Senator or Congressman had any prior relationship with any of the appointees or their parents.
We too had the impression when starting the nomination process that it would be very political and felt that our son would be at a disadvantage. After going through the process, we found the entire process to be free of politics and conducted very fairly.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2008
- Messages
- 5,871
In my experience, every thing has been pretty non-partisan in the selection process, and real professional. As long as you are polite and honest with the selection board, they are going to be fair in their selections.
Actually, our senior senator uses the principal/alternate method.
Steve
DLOD, AZ