Question.

I'd say, I wouldn't think C's would be too bad at the academy. I know how frustrating it is to really work for a grade in a class and then end up not getting it.

However, I could look back at my performance in the class and point out all the times I slipped up, and then I could think of a billion ways to have prevented it.
 
HNeedle said:
very few people who just TRY to succeed academically fail. it's really, really hard to fail classes if you do your work and get EI when you need it... that being said, i do know a few people who work their tails off, do all the extra hw, go in for EI, and still only manage Cs. so take that for what it's worth
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Okay...true confession time.

Doolie year...third calculus class....at the end of T42...I have a solid, SOLID:

F

I meet the academic review board (this is the one where 9 officers decide to show you the gate) for disenrollment.

SHORT version: I am excoriated for my gross stupidity, lack of focus, etc...etc...I lose it, stand, face the Colonel at the end of the table, explain that I didn't come to USAFA to be treated the way these officers have been treating me and if they're representative of "professionals" then I'm at the WRONG place. Thank you sir, Good afternoon!"

I walk out, headed for CS-34...a LOOOOONG way away from the 6th floor of Fairchild.

A captain chases me down, tells me to compose myself, and send me back to the room with the direction: "Report in a military manner, and LISTEN."

I do just that. And the Colonel (Permanent Professor, head of the department) asks whether I'd prefer to go to a fine institute of higher learning elsewhere where he has no doubt I'll do outstanding, or give up my summer leave and take summer school...what's my answer, I have 10 seconds to decide."

"Stay here sir!"

"Good answer Cadet...dismissed."

WHY did they let me stay?

In 42 lessons, I had earned a solid "F" grade. And in 42 lessons, I had 142 EI sessions! They decided I had given it my best; THEY had failed to teach ME.

So...yes, it's "tough" and sometimes...it can beat you, HARD. BUT IF YOU GIVE IT ALL YOU HAVE...you WILL succeed!

I did.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Steve; that is one of the most inspirational posts I've seen in a long time. I hope I can remember it when similar posts come up about how hard it is at the academy and whether or not they can make it.

I have to admit, that I had to look up the word "excoriated". I knew I had heard the word before, and knew your meaning through contextual clues, but DAMN!!!! a 5 Syllable word!!!! :thumb: I don't get to practice those very often. Most of my co-workers communicate with grunts and moans. :smile:

Anyway; excellent post. And you definitely described the "Spirit" of the air force academy. They aren't there to waste their money and kick you out. If you truly WANT to be there and WANT to succeed, you can.

Now, "Devil's Advocate" for a second. Not sure if Mars Boy didn't know what he was getting into and it truly was more than he could handle; or if his notoriety caught up to him, and the other cadets dogged him to the point that he lost his ambition. Maybe it was his attitude and he thought he was better than he was. There's probably 231 different possibilities here. But one possibility I believe CAN NOT be the reason, is that he gave it everything he had, wanted it more than anything, and the academy simply didn't care. And with the supposed email/drawing that he did; my money is that he didn't come in with the right attitude. All the boasting about how CAP and Scouting has prepared him for the academy, brought the chickens home to roost. The academy is 4000 top ranked high school kids. Most with a type "A" personality. All Big Fish where they came from. The hardest part is humbling oneself to realize that the ONLY way to succeed at the academy, and in the military, is to put mission before self; the team before self; and be able to rely on your team, (in this case classmates and instructors) to help you.

Anyway; hopefully he will do well. Hopefully, the class of 2014 who is excited about attending the academy will read this thread and learn from it. And for those who don't know much about "Mars Boy", just do a simply search in this forum and you'll understand. Great post Steve. Good luck to everyone. Mike....
 
I'm glad he left. I don't want to share the academy with a person who is like that. It's completely against why I'm going.

I can't help but think arrogance played its role with MB. He probably came in with a cocky attitude boasting all that he had done. I don't know the whole story, but judging from the interview, that's a good possibility.

His actions reflect his character. He could have accepted the fact that he didn't work hard enough, messed up somewhere along the line, or some other reason, but he didn't bow out gracefully.

Even if he REALLY wanted it, and was kicked out, he could have came back next year. There's no reason to be cynical and bitter about it. Behavior like his is completely unacceptable, not just from a military perspective, but from a real professional perspective.

He has a bit of growing up to do.

EDIT: I hope there's not too many appointees for next year. Is the "quota" going to be enforced for 2014?
 
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Always remember (as I am sure you already know) that all kids at the academy, and going into the academy, have incredible accomplishments. It depends on whether they want to get their pride out before they come or during. I'm sure you all can remember some of my first posts that were rude and prideful, but I quickly was taught and learned my lesson. I had a lot to be proud of, but the problem; so does everyone else.

I think the biggest purpose of BCT is to humble a bunch of kids, who obviously have a right to be proud, and lower them to a level where they can respect others accomplishments and achievements. If "mars boy" couldn't be lowered to the level where could respect his classmates, then he didn't need to be there.

Later,

Brian
 
Zoom - In the end getting in is the easy part and just about everyone, at some point, comes to the fork in the road. I wouldn't worry about a "quota" - only you will decide, when the going gets tough, to stay.

BSA - You're so right regarding the need for humility - for several reasons - it's no longer about the individual (it's all about team concept) plus arrogance is a very undesirable trait for a future military leader.

Oh and don't forget - completion of BCT is your just your admission ticket into the Wing. You have to bring your "A" game for the academic year.
 
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ZoomingFalcon said:
I'm glad he left. I don't want to share the academy with a person who is like that. It's completely against why I'm going.
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I'm disappointed. He probably had the hardest Basic for '13 and he made it through. Some comments from the original article:

"this article did draw more attention to him and has, thus far, made basic much harder for him than even the average basic for the sheer fact that this article made him a target."

"The comments stating that he was "screwed" on the first day, and that people will find him, though unnecessary comments, proved to be entirely true within 24 hours of his arrival."

"I also know that, what i've ultimately heard from around the cadet wing and people that have worked him: he is NOT a bad kid. We knew that. We still know that."

"a cocky kid, but overall pretty good. unfortunately he wasn't prepared for this place academically, and is no longer here. looks like he needs to find a different route for his dreams."

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/academy-98120-air-riojas.html

ZoomingFalcon said:
His actions reflect his character. He could have accepted the fact that he didn't work hard enough, messed up somewhere along the line, or some other reason, but he didn't bow out gracefully.
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I talked to him on Facebook, and he did actually accept that he made mistakes and didn't work hard enough.

ZoomingFalcon said:
Even if he REALLY wanted it, and was kicked out, he could have came back next year.
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He does really want "it". He decided the Academy wasn't for him. He's going to do AFROTC, an equally good program.

ZoomingFalcon said:
There's no reason to be cynical and bitter about it. Behavior like his is completely unacceptable, not just from a military perspective, but from a real professional perspective.
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Meh maybe. I've seen several pictures of current cadets giving the Academy the bird. I hear that the place is kind of rough.
 
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My son said he was "actually pretty nice and a good kid". Son said the e-mail was to his 2013 classmates and he tipped his hat to those who'd shown him kindness and looked forward to serving with them in the AF in the future; to the rest is who he flipped off.
Correct he could have left without the picture but I still feel a little sorry for him. He had it much rougher than most 4* and that could certainly have escalated some of his academic difficulties.
Best of luck to him in AFROTC.
 
greentrees said:
He had it much rougher than most 4* and that could certainly have escalated some of his academic difficulties.
Best of luck to him in AFROTC.
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His decision to accept the interview, along with his word choice, didn't help either. I apologize if I seem like I'm bashing him. You're right, I don't know him, I didn't go through basic with him, I'm just making an assumption.
 
This will be my last comment on this subject. Mainly, because none of our opinions can do any good. But maybe, a new cadet or applicant can learn something from this.

First, for those who don't really know me, I am straight forward. I don't sugar coat. Like the person who "Seems" to have every excuse in the world why they haven't completed the CFA, application, interview, etc.. I don't show sympathy. I tell them to get off their butt and be responsible for their own actions. etc... so.....

I don't believe that 2013 BCT was the hardest for the cadets. Yes, there was a lot of swine flu going around, but that pretty much made it so NO ONE could get cut during BCT. Basically, all you had to do was physically show up. Not that most Basics didn't bust their butt. They did. But the academy pretty much didn't cut anyone unless they wanted to leave.

I also don't believe that Mars Boy had it any tougher than anyone else. Why? Because only the cadre and upper class would really even consider his pseudo celebrity status. The rest of the basics in BCT wouldn't care one bit. They were too scared, confused, and having their own problems remembering their left from right and contrails.

Now; did Mars Boy "Probably" have a little more attention from the cadre than most Basics? Probably. But if he conducted himself with any sort of dignity, the whole issue with his "civilian" notoriety would have been short lived and he would be just like anyone else there.

What I'm saying is; we all have things in our lives that we wish we could sometimes forget. Sometimes they are embarrassing, sometimes things you aren't proud of. And usually, we don't bring them up, we adjust our mannerism so others aren't reminded of it, and we move on. So the only way that Mars Boy's past, along with BCT was an issue with his not making the grade academically; is if HE allowed it to. If he didn't move on with life. If he spoke to others about his pre-academy successes. If he walked around with a certain attitude of arrogance. In other words, the only way the whole "MARS" issue was an issue for him, was if he allowed it to continue on. If he hadn't, the whole thing would have been dropped a long time ago. Only he could keep it alive. And I won't be someone's mommy and say "Poor johnny, jane, bobby, etc...".

These individuals are applying to a U.S. Military academy where they will be training to hold the fate and lives of others in their hands. No coddling from me. THIS is part of the training too. Not just the classroom, marching, etc.... You can teach monkeys how to march and clean their room. You can teach a braniac the academics. Part of the academy is social adaptation, learning, cooperating, being part of a social team, etc... And I believe that it was this part of the academy that he didn't do too well on. And that caused him to lose his ambition and motivation. In other words, he quit. And that's fine. The academy is not for everyone. But I won't buy that he had it harder than anyone else. He didn't. His whole Pre-academy life once confronted at the academy, could have been resolved the very first encounter. When the cadre asked him about being special, wanting to be an astronaut, being prepared for the academy, thinks he's better than the others, etc... All he had to do was show his humbleness and right there and then realize and admit that he wasn't prepared for all this and that he had a lot of work ahead of him to be worthy enough to be a cadet. If he'd done that, his past would probably never have been an issue from that point on. Or did he maintain an attitude that this was a joke, he was better than the rest, he was too good for this, etc...? That we will never know.

So; for all you applicants and those holding appointments to the academy, use this topic as a means of learning. We all know that you wanted to go to the academy. If you hadn't, you wouldn't have applied. Or at the very least, you wouldn't be on this forum if you were forced to apply by your parents. So you have to realize something. No matter how hard you think the academy is, there's 4000 other cadets dealing with the same things as you are. No matter how good you were in high school, there's 4000 other cadets who did just as good; and some BETTER than you. If you truly want to succeed at the academy, you can. Have the right attitude. WANT to help others and be part of the team. Humble yourself and ask for help when needed. Go to your instructors for extra instruction when you're having problems. If you really care; and you really want it; and you really try your hardest; you WILL do well at the academy. Best of luck. Mike....
 
Maybe they should make Mike's last paragraph there another one of those "required memorizations" during BCT?! :thumb:
 
marciemi said:
Maybe they should make Mike's last paragraph there another one of those "required memorizations" during BCT?! :thumb:
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Quoting a USAFA grad:
"Contrails is a compendium of useless facts and obscure, yet surprisingly dull, quotations that constitute mandatory fouth class knowledge at the Academy."

Why just a single paragraph, why not all 1116 posts?

(Just kidding, Christcorp! :shake:)
 
I said I wouldn't make any additional comments, but I just spoke with my son. He said that the "Mars Boy" email/drawing pretty much circulated throughout the entire cadet wing. He is sending it to me as I am writing this. If anyone wants to see it, let me know. Not sure if I would post it or not. mike....
 
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Yes it's all around the cadet wing now haha,


I wouldn't post it here but forward it to anyone who would like to see it. Likewise, if anyone wants the e-mail feel free to let me know and I shall send it your way.
 
he hasn't actually left yet. his flight leaves in less than 12 hours though, so Monday Feb 8, 2010 is the day he leaves USAFA.

a couple things:

1) his basic was not harder than other basic's. We (yes, i was one of the cadre who interacted with him for first beast) singled him out during inprocessing, but after that he was treated just like everyone else. sure he got extra attention a little, but that was because of his attitude more than his article

2) Christcorp is dead on with him quitting. He didn't work as hard as he needed to, assuming he could glide along like he had in the past and have everything handed to him on a silver platter: it didn't work

3) I've chatted with him a couple times over the year and during basic, and he's a pretty confident kid. he still plans to pursue his dreams with ROTC as the "next stepping block" as opposed to USAFA. we'll see if he's learned anything to help him succeed.

4) if anyone wants to see him, he's the kid in the front left, reading his article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4mhtVAEUcA

2010) 4 days til assignments, and 107 til graduation! (irrelevant, but exciting!)
 
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