Rand Report and CFA scoring

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by sci-fi girl, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. sci-fi girl

    sci-fi girl Member

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    So, some threads here reference the rand report on SAs and USMA in particular. I took the time to read through it. One thing I saw was that if you score a 650 or above on the CFA you get the maximum, 800, points towards your WCS in the athletics section. Does anyone know if this has been verified by the service academy? Also I have, to no avail, attempted to find how the CFA is scored. Unless I am forgetting an event there are only 6 and I thought the max was 100 points for each. Either rand report or I ( I'm assuming it's me) is incorrect and I was wondering if anyone had any information concerning the validity of the information in the rand report and how the CFA is scored.
    As always all responses are appreciated.
     
  2. USMAcand9821

    USMAcand9821 Member

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    I'm pretty sure it's secret dark magic. Only explanation. The USMA doesn't release this sort of stuff. The only way to know is if you work in the admissions office.
     
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  3. USMA21

    USMA21 Member

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    You could guestimate 800 points maximum /6 events = 133 points per event
    Use some math and set the maximums for each event to 133 points eg. 18 pull ups would then = 133 points. Each pull up = 7.4 points.
    Rand reports the average number of points for the CFA is 557. I'm sure if you followed that process for each event you would get pretty close to figuring out your score. It's going to require a little more thinking for the mile and shuttle run, though ;)
     
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  4. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    I would agree that only admissions knows the exact answer to this level of detail and I am sure that scoring has been modified slightly in the last ten years. I think it is a valuable reference that gives you an overview to understand the calculation in all areas but it should not be used as gospel.
     
  5. tug_boat

    tug_boat 5-Year Member

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    The CFA scoring is simple. Do the very best you can!

    The more effort you put into preparing for what ever life test, the better your results will be. If you don't make the CFA cut, there are two things to consider: how well did I prepare? Or how can I game (cheat) the game. I think you know the better path to follow. So apply yourself and push your limits.

    Push Hard, Press Forward
     
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  6. jagger19

    jagger19 Member

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    The CFA minimums are the average they publish. Just think like that. Hit those and you'll be fine.
     
  7. sci-fi girl

    sci-fi girl Member

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    I am practicing and training and I understand I should do my best. I'm just worried about the athletics section of my WCS because I go to an arts school. I participate in sports, but they are all rec. teams and then a running club which means I'm not going to get a varsity letter, which most of the incoming classes have. I've heard that you can get club sports "validated" where your RC can say yes this is equivalent to a varsity letter based on x, y, and z, but I've only seen it once so I'm not sure if that's true or depends on the RC ect.. If I have a way that I know will guarantee me a higher score (assuming I can get a 650) in the athletics section I want to follow that route as well as trying to improve on a whole.
    Also, I'm not sure if it's still true since the page hasn't been updated since 2007 but I found this. I can't figure out how to get to it from the WP page but its the closest thing I've found to a CFA scoring guide. Hope it can help someone.
    http://www.west-point.org/parent/wppc-greater-houston/MALO - PAE.htm
    Thanks for all advice and encouragement.
     
  8. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    I have an driven daughter that sounds a lot like you. The best advice through this entire process is to keep doing your best and do not worry about things that you cannot control. If you are in decent physical shape to start with, training for the CFA shouldn't be a big deal. Work hard and you will do well. This advice really applies to everything you do. Your cannot control the sports your school offers but you are doing the best you can by joining other teams. The same can be said for clubs, gpa, AP classes. Do your best at the things you can control and do not let the things outside of your control drive you crazy everyday. Enjoy your high school days and do things that you are passionate about. Everyone here on the forum will try and help but no one knows the exact details of how everything really works.
     
  9. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    Unfortunately the Rand report is one of the only things out there that describes the WCS scoring system. It is dated and lacks many of the details that one would like to see. But, it is much more information than you can get from any civilian college. Here is my take, and just assumptions from what I read in the report. So in front of everything I say put, I assume or in my assumption.

    It looks like everything is scaled into an 800 point system. They use the charts to generate points for Athletic Activities (10%) and Extracurricular Activities (10%). Each 800 points. So somehow, maybe a chart, they convert the CFA score to an 800 scale. So, to get the 650 score it would be something less than perfect, but probably very very good, because it is the equivalent in their scoring system as All-American, 1st team All area. Not easy achievements. Here is the big leap. It looks like each 10% is equal to 800 points for a total maximum WCS of 8,000! That would be an average admitted for the class years of 1992-2001 being 6,012 out of 8,000. Look at Figure 3.1 showing Predicted Probability of Graduating it has a max scale of 8,000.

    All that being said all you can do is work hard to get max or as close to max scores on your CFA to get the best WCS score possible. To address the fact that you school does not offer varsity sports, you could have your guidance councilor add something to that effect into your school profile, that could trigger admissions validate your club sports as varsity type teams.
     
  10. MidwestDad

    MidwestDad Member

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    Start doing some push ups, pull ups/arm hangs, and situps every day from now until October. Your CFA score will be much much better after 7 months of conditioning.
    You don't have to work out for an hour a day; do as many of each in 1-2 min as you can. With rest in between that's 8-10 min a day.

    If that's too much you may want to rethink a SA . . .
     
  11. time2

    time2 10-Year Member

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    Also good to remember CFA is only one part of your application. There is nothing to be gained by trying to figure out the CFA formula or even the WCS formula since none of us work in admissions, so the reality is we don't know how they currently do the scoring. Everything about applying is a competition since far more apply then there are appointments available. You are competing against many of the top h.s. students from the entire country, so it would be better to focus on what you can control. The WP website lists the recommended h.s. background so that is where I would start.
     
  12. brovol

    brovol Member

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    The "athletic" relevance is within the leadership score. How many varsity team sports , and being a captain. The fitness component is 100% the CFA, which is in fact worth 10% of the WCS. And yes you can max it and recieve full points. All of this was clearly confirmed to us by RC's at WP.

    The Rand Report is probably about the best insight into the WP admissions scoring that you will find in writing. With respect to the CFA, it is possible to "pass", but not receive that many points out of the 10% total. No one can tell you what the point differential is between a minimum passing score and a max score, but those who suggest that it is simply a pass/fail, and the analysis stops there are less than fully informed.

    Winning an academy spot is a very competitive process in most cases. To be in the running a candidate will have good grades, test scores, leadership resume, and fitness. When they add everything up on the WCS, and put competing candidates side by side, that little 10% scoring for the CFA can be the difference between a winner of a slot, and all those who didn't. And it is one of those elements that a committed candidate can improve on significantly with diligence, discipline, and hard work.
     
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  13. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    I again agree with my friend brovol. The CFA is the only component of the entire WCS calculation that a candidate has complete control. You know the "answers" before the test and it is only up to you if you but in the hard work to get them all "correct". Practice, practice, practice.

    In terms of the other areas, all you can do is your best with what you have available. You will drive yourself crazy worrying about things that you cannot control.
     
  14. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

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    I disagree with this in one respect. I have seen candidate put all kinds of time into preparing and practicing to ace the CFA, but if they had put as much time into taking practice tests and studying for the ACT/SAT, it would have paid off bigger dividends in terms of increasing their WCS.
     
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  15. brovol

    brovol Member

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    Kids of course need to be committed to working on the test scores, and no one argues that the CFA is more important. It isn't as important as the test scores, but it is inaccurate to think that by working hard on the CFA means you need to sacrifice time used to study for the ACT/SAT. You don't. In fact, there should be balance regardless, and a kid isn't going to spend all time on either the CFA or the ACT. They still should do other things too. My son worked on the ACT, and still took time to work on the CFA excersized. He also held a part time job, played varsity soccer, baseball and swimming. He did well in everything all at the same time. He was motivated to get to West Point. Enough said.
     
  16. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    Yes, kids need to be balanced and work on improving as better students, athletes and leaders. My only point is that the CFA is completely dependent on the individual as you know exactly what is on the test before you take it. It may be impossible for some kids to max certain areas for some reason and thats ok but they should know the expected outcome before they take it. You can take 10 ACT prep classes or study forty hours a week and still not get a 36 or 4.0 because your results are dependent on things outside your control. The academies want well rounded kids that do well in most things not necessarily excel at one thing. That is still the key to getting in with a little luck on your side as well.

    Specifically with the CFA, my daughter improved four of the five events during her last attempt and while the run was slower than before we agreed that chasing a point or two was not worth the additional effort in terms of the impact on her WCS. She was happy with her results as they were pretty close to the best she could do.
     
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  17. tug_boat

    tug_boat 5-Year Member

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    The CFA in my opinion is viewed in the wrong way by most applicants. Its part of the application process and not a test to determine your physical aptitude or your ability to meet the physical demands of West Point or the Army. Most applicants seek to qualify by meeting the minimum standards which is the wrong aspect in pursuing an appointment in to West Point and a career in the Army. The CFA is more psychological barrier for applicants to determine how strong their desire is to complete the application process.

    While attending WP your physical fitness will be tested on a routine basis. You'll be required to attend boxing/combatives. You will need to maintain and improve on your AFPT score, IOCT score and pass other tests that combine mental fortitude with physical aptitude such as combat survival swim that must be passed in order to graduate. You must look at as a continuing challenge while applying, during your career and a life long cognitive effort.

    The following are youtube videos that are examples of what you must pass. They're much more difficult than the CFA. But then you'll be more mature, experienced and more confident.

    Push Hard, Press Forward









     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
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