Reapplying

flieger83

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From an ALO (State Deputy Director)

Hi!

Okay...for a "college student applicant"...

USAFA will look at you VERY differently from a high school applicant. You are now in college. This is the VERY thing that they were trying to predict your performance with the SAT, etc.

The way to impress the admissions folks is to:

a. Take a full academic load; 12 sem hrs min
b. DO VERY WELL
c. The classes you take...no wimpy ones: math, english comp, chem/physics/biology would be good ones (3 of these) and then ROTC and perhaps a "nice grade builder" for a total of 5 if you can
d. RETAKE the SAT/ACT: both tests, as often as you can afford them. You can NEVER NEVER NEVER hurt yourself there! We always take the highest score of any/all tests!!!
e. NAIL the CFA...I was miserable with pushups and I was a 3-sport "jock" in HS. So...every time I walked into my bedroom, I dropped for pushups. Did that for a semester...went from 25 to 60. Pullups...went to the gym bar twice a day...pulled until I thought I'd die. Went from 4 to 16. (Oh yeah, did I mention: I didn't get in the first time I applied...took two tries!)

What "we" want to see from the college applicant is that you can handle the academics of the college environment, and that you haven't "gotten into the party mode" and given up on hard work. Because frankly, USAFA (in truth ANY of the academies) will likely be the hardest thing you've EVER done up to now).

More questions? Holler...I'll answer anything I can!

Steve
DLOD, AZ
 

USAFA hopeful

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I just changed my schedule recently. It's not exactly how it should be for the academy I know, but I need to take classes that will keep me on track for my major if i still don't get in.

Chinese 1001 (4 hours)
Physics 1111 w/ lab (4 hours)
Geography 1101 -not literally geography but deals with global issues (3 hours)
Aerospace technology w/ lab (AFROTC) (2 hours)
English 1101 (3 hours)
Required PE class ( 1 hour)

Is this satisfactory?
 

flieger83

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Hi!

That's a good mix!

The "toughie" ones are precisely what a 4th classman at USAFA would take, the Chinese is a strategic language and the military is VERY much in favor of that!

PE is good; shows you'll keep your fitness up.

Nope, this is good!!! Now...nail the grades! :thumb:

Steve
 

packermatt7

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Your ALO probably didn't look too kindly on you making up that time, and he probably mentioned it in the interview report. Honor Code. One slip up like that at any academy will get you kicked out.
 

flieger83

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Integrity

Okay...

Since it was brought up, and reading back I see several folks mentioned the run on the CFA.

I will not presume to speak for another ALO however...I would take an extremely dim view of this. Why?

Because an officer of the armed forces (which is what I'm evaluating a candidate to become) lives/dies by their word. Period. I MUST MUST MUST have absolute faith in my junior officers or I can't function as a commander. If my commander doesn't have 100% faith in me, then she/he must fire me.

If I have any doubt about the integrity of a candidate, then I will "dig" into them via any means possible: school teachers, counselors, ministers, coaches, etc. THEN I will speak with the candidate. I want to look them in the eye and ask them questions related to integrity, honor, etc.

And I want to both hear what they say and see how they say it.

If, after all that, I'm not convinced the individual has the personal integrity required, then I will make note of it in my evaluation. And yes, an ALO wields a lot of weight in their evaluation.

So...the LONG story ending...if you have ANY doubt as to your ALO's position re: your integrity, might I suggest you have a serious talk with him/her. It might clear a LOT up. And if he/she questions the run, then volunteer to have them give you the next CFA and then put out until you bleed! :)

Just my 65 cents worth.

Steve
 

ds52262

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Thank You Flieger I was waiting for that. If you fudge the CFA what else will you fudge? :rolleyes: As for the original poster, you should talk with your ALO and make things crystal clear. It has been said that an ALO cannot get you in the Academy, but they sure can keep you out of the Academy.
 

Just_A_Mom

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USAFA hopeful:

RE: your schedule - what about a Math? You will take Calculus at AFA. A couple of semesters at least.
You probably should be scheduling Calculus I.

You also will take Physics at AFA but you will take Chemistry first. Chemistry, is a make it or break it class. It will benefit you a lot more than Physics at this point.
 

Christcorp

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Chemistry and Physics???? What the hey??? I don't want to learn how to BUILD a bomb; just how to drop them!!!

Sorry, had to go there.

Seriously; many students don't realize that even if they want to major in History, English, etc... the Air Force Academy awards a Bachelor of SCIENCE degree to everyone. Unlike a traditional school, you get a B.S. if your major was History. That's because all students will take certain CORE classes that include the math and science world. I'm sure most students realize that they will take these classes. Most probably took these in High School or they wouldn't have been accepted to the academy. But there are some that don't know how the academies operate. Later... Mike....
 

Just_A_Mom

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I'm sure most students realize that they will take these classes. Most probably took these in High School or they wouldn't have been accepted to the academy. But there are some that don't know how the academies operate.

One would think that anyone who is applying for the second time would know how the academies operate.

In post #8 USFAFhopeful asks if math is important. He is assured that it is important - then in post #21 he is again advised to take Math.
In post #22 he announces a schedule change and again asks if it satisfactoy - but there is NO math. :bang:
I am now convinced that USAFAhopeful is simply hopeful and not ready to make the necessary sacrifice to gain admission.
 

mom3boys

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JAM4, I agree with your assessment....why does he keep asking for advice if he doesn't want to hear it??

"Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." --James T. Kirk


:spacecraft:
 

Christcorp

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Amen Sisters and Brothers.

I'm not trying to discourage hopeful or anyone else, but the Academy is NOT just another option to look at for a college education. It's a way of life. It's commitment. It's dedication. It's teamwork. It's risking your life. It's being the BEST that you are capable of being.

USAFA Hopeful seems to have a lot of excuses. Not trying to dog him personally, but every time he mentions his college schedule, he mentions that he's strategically taking certain classes for his major in case the academy doesn't accept him. Well, I have yet to see a college/university where a person claimed their major in their freshman year. There isn't one class you HAVE to take your freshman year that is required for a major. You could CHOOSE such classes, but you don't have to take them. Most degree programs have at least 30 credits (10 classes) of GER (General Education Requirements) that are required for ALL DEGREE PROGRAMS. These also include some math and science. Hopeful could easily take a decent math class, physics, etc... his 1st semester and then the other science and more math the 2nd semester. If he didn't get accepted to the academy, every one of the classes could apply as electives or GER for ANY degree he would be aiming for. Sorry, but it sound more like excuses.

Then again, this is a forum. None of us know the truth of what anyone says here. Not unless we know someone personally. If he truly is aspiring to get into the academy, then he really needs to think this through and make it a priority. Not just "Another Option". Academies are NOT just "Another Option". They need to be your PRIMARY GOAL. USC, Yale, Michigan State, Purdue, and Georgetown are the OPTIONS when you don't get accepted to the academy. (Not that the Academy is for everyone or better; just in the case of someone wanting to go to an academy, it needs to be your 1st choice and priority).
 

USAFA hopeful

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Christcorp,
you are right about me trying to air on the side of caution. The academy is an exceptionally hard school to get into and it has been my first choice. To me it is the best path to a commission and therefore I would definitely prefer it over ROTC. It was my first choice last year and it is this year. As for the math, I got a 4 on my ap calc exam and ,for my major, it exempted the only math class I wouldve needed. I talked to my ALO today and he said that because of this, I wouldn't have to worry about a math because the calc course I received credit for would be very similar to the one at the academy and I would already be prepared for it. I mightve already mentioned this, i'm not sure, but that is the main reason for me deciding not to take it.
By the way, I'm not trying to ignore anyones feedback. To whomever the mom person is, I didn't take all of the advice but I did take the advice to change my science from marine science to physics/chem so ,therefore, I am taking the feedback seriously. I really do appreciate the help.
 
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Christcorp

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There are 2 reasons you should be taking science AND Math. 1) The academy wants to see you taking the HARDEST and most CHALLENGING classes you can. As a College Student, you have to prove yourself even more than a high school student. 2) You WILL be taking math and science classes at the academy. Even if you walk in already with a B.S. In Nuclear Fission; none of the classes are transferred. You will take 4 years of classes; including Math and Science. Therefor, you really need to stay up on the science and math. Just because you scored a 4 on an AP test doesn't mean after 16 months of not doing any math, that you're going to be able to jump right into Calc or another math class without difficulties.

As far as your "Major", in case the academy doesn't come through for you; so what? I don't mean that in a derogatory manner. My point is; for most college degrees; (No matter what it is majored in); there are 30 credits of GER. (General Education Requirements; also known as University CORE classes). There's 30 credits in your major. There's usually 30 credit required by the "College" as their CORE CLASSES. (College and University are 2 different things). I.e. A University; such as University of Texas or Harvard University is made up of NUMEROUS COLLEGES such as the College of Business; College of Engineering; etc... The particular college that your major is in usually requires a certain amount of "CORE" classes. The final 30 credits; (Average B.S./B.A requires 120 credits); is usually made up of 15 credits in electives and 15 credits normally used for pre-requisites. Sometimes people use these 15-30 credits towards a MINOR.

So, what the hell and I getting at. My point is; you could take Physics, Chemistry, Calc, Biology, and Statistics; OR you could take Frisbee, Golf, Art History in the 1st century, Crochet, and Parenting 101; and both schedules would be of use to you for your MAJOR should the air force academy fall through in your plans. Obviously; because no one is silly enough to load up their entire semester with electives, you could take classes that the academy would like, but would help you should you get accepted. E.g. Chemistry, Physics, Math, English Comp, and the foreign language the first semester. (Don't worry about the 2nd semester, because your application is done by then and they are saying yes or no starting in November). Then, if you don't get accepted to the academy; each and every one of those classes can fit either into GER, Electives, Minors, or College Core. You've basically got between 15-45 credits to play with.

So again; if you truly want the academy to be your first choice and you are willing to work hard for it; then the first thing you need to do is prove to the ALO and review board that you are willing to bust your butt with the hardest and most challenging classes you can take. If you are going to make your schedule totally based on your major IN CASE the academy falls through, then the academy is obviously not your highest priority.

There are basics and cadets currently at the academies who did every possible thing they could to get in. They weren't really into team sports, but they knew the academies values the team work, discipline, etc... that went along with it. So they joined sport teams. The quit their part time jobs so they could do volunteer time. They took 9 classes per semester their senior year, even though they only needed 5 to graduate and meet their state's requirements. The joined clubs and sought out areas that could demonstrate their leadership abilities. The list goes on. They didn't just do this to get accepted. MOST academy cadets are that type of student. They obviously get involved in activities that they enjoy, but they are willing to use any spare or additional time to expand their "Resume". For lack of a better word. So, the question becomes; do you: A) Take classes that the academy looks favorably on and will help you if you get accepted, in becoming a better cadet academically; and if the academy falls through you find a use for those classes in your backup educational plans? OR B) Do you take classes for a major that you are interested in pursuing from a traditional University, and hope that enough things changed in your application this coming year compared to last year yo get you into the academy? 1 really tough question.

You have to realize that more than 9000 applicants applied to the Air Force academy last year. Of them, 3000 were initially rejected and not considered competitive applicants. Of the remaining 6000, that number went down to about 3000 candidates. Of those candidates, they gave out about 200 LOA and a couple hundred direct Appointments in the November-December time frame. They finished off in March-April with offering approximately 1300 more appointments. Remember, they offer approximately 1700 individuals an appointment, knowing that about 300-400 will turn it down. Then, if more than that turn it down, they start looking at #1701 and up. (Rough numbers). You have to figure out for yourself where you were in all that. Then, you can figure out what it is you have to do to get HIGHER on that list. Was it grades? Was it the difficulty of the classes? (I.e. A 3.8gpa with a full load of IB or AP classes means a LOT more than a 4.0gpa in "Normal Classes"). Was it the CFA? Was it poor recommendations from the ALO or from one of the 3 teachers. Only you can decide. Remember, it's been said numerous times; none of these recommendations can get you into the academy. But one real bad one from a teacher, ALO, etc... can totally keep you out.

Good luck to you. Sorry for being long winded. Hopefully, some of the things I've said will make some sense in putting the academy, selection, and acceptance more into perspective. Good luck.... Mike......
 

USAFA hopeful

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Well I think you finally convinced me to go ahead and register for a math. I would really like to get into the academy next year and taking the risk, it appears, would be better than airing on the side of caution. This is going to be a pretty rough year for me academically, but I'm hoping the academy selection board will take it into consideration.
My new revised schedule is:
Chinese 1001 (4 hours)
Math 2260 (Calc 2) (4 hours)
Airs 1001 and Airs 1001L -AFROTC w/ lab ( 2 hours)
Physics 1111 and Physics 1111L ( 4 hours)
English 1101 ( 3 hours)

17 hours is the max courseload. I tried for chem instead of physics but that interfered with chinese.
 

Just_A_Mom

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I tried for chem instead of physics but that interfered with chinese.

At the University of Georgia? Aren't there something like 50 sections of Freshman chemistry?

About Calculus - the AFA will validate Calc I with a 4/5 on AP Calc BC AND and "adequate" score on the placement test.
IF you took Calc AB you probably want to take Calc I again. You seriously may want to consider taking Calc I again anyway, I know, you don't want to hear this. Mastery is very important.

Sorry (not really) for being so blunt (harsh) - but glad to see you are *thinking*. :wink:

Oh an what Mike said is right - figure out what kept you out last year. If you can contact your admissions officer at the academy he may pull your file and give you a frank assessment. Then you will know and not speculate.
good luck
 

mom3boys

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JAM4 is right, and her kid isn't even at UGA (like mine is!). Actually, the schedule you selected is very similar to what my son took there last year. He survived, and you will too. Chemistry at UGA is KILLER...but you can do it...go back to OASIS and try again!!!

(for non-UGA types: OASIS is the online registration)
 

USAFA hopeful

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Alright I got it! However, my mother just reminded me that if I lose the HOPE scholarship (get under a B average), then I'm going to a local college.
Just a mom, who do we contact about our last year's weakness? You said admissions officer, do you mean our admissions counselor?
 

mom3boys

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If you stay away from the fraternity house parties, you should be fine...DS #1 had a very similar schedule (substitute German for Chinese)...he still has HOPE...otherwise, he'd be in deep brown stuff. Put on your big boy pants, suck it up, and do what is necessary. If you can't keep HOPE at a place that allows you to study all you want, not wake up at 5 for PT, and eat however or whenever you want, how in the world do you expect to maintain a 2.0 at an academy where you operate on limited sleep and major exhaustion???

:muscles2: time to get tough!
 

USAFA hopeful

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I'm not joining a frat and partying won't be that much of a problem. That's good to know that this person still kept HOPE. It's just a little intimidating having 17 hours of difficult college level classes.
 

mom3boys

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It cracks me up that today college students are so worried about 17 hours of credit. Twenty years ago that was the norm...when did 15 become the norm? I took 18 every semester, except for one or two, where I took 19. Suck it up, buttercup,you're a big boy now.
 
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