Reasons freshmen drop out of ROTC program?

[Pima]

I believe nationally, 25% commissioning rate is avg. for ROTC. Our DS was AFROTC. Entered with 100 + cadets. 70 returned and his 200 year was back to 100+....AFROTC allows sophomores to enter (in this case 30 were 250s). He commissioned with 28.

 

[kinnem]

One of my DSs is at USNA. It does seem like they want to protect their investment and get those students across the stage. Plebe treatment is brutal but they seem to pick students who can succeed. Lots of tradition there.

Other DS is at a small Army ROTC battalion. It seems like they are waiting for all the freshman dropping out to happen. DS said they started with 80 freshmen but there are only about 20 seniors. The structure seems like a large bottle necked weedout. If DS is correct on the number of seniors then one in four will stay in. I will say that the former enlistment/guard students seem annoying. DS says they lord it over him that they have been through boot camp but their grades and study skills are bad. I don't know if that is a normal situation. I'm glad my DS has more restraint than I do. I probably would have been kicked out by now because I would have had a problem with the boot camp graduates.

The ROTC dropout rate seems about right. I don't think they attempt to really weed folks out sp much as it is folks weed themselves out. I'm surprised to hear about the prior enlisted. I know in my son's NROTC unit these folks were key asset to helping the unit to run smoothly. and to provide information and an example in training. I doubt this is really an Army/Navy difference but, if your son's description is accurate, is probably more due to a culture within the unit. Or... maybe those guys ARE just obnoxious idiots.

 

[lgarmy]

All of this has been really helpful, thanks so much!
Ultimately I've decided to go ahead and try it; if its not for me then like you have mentioned, I have one year.

 

[clarksonarmy]

Grades are a significant factor. Most of these kids take on rigorous engineering majors at top universities and enter the ROTC environment that - unlike the service academies - is not geared toward helping them succeed. Think long and hard about this option and walk in with eyes wide open.

If you find a program that is not geared to help a engineer major succeed, look for a different program. There are ROTC programs out there that prioritize academic success (like Clarkson's program).

 

[rotc hopeful mom]

Grades are a significant factor. Most of these kids take on rigorous engineering majors at top universities and enter the ROTC environment that - unlike the service academies - is not geared toward helping them succeed. Think long and hard about this option and walk in with eyes wide open.

If you find a program that is not geared to help a engineer major succeed, look for a different program. There are ROTC programs out there that prioritize academic success (like Clarkson's program)

So, Clarkson, here's a question. How would we know if the ROTC program at any particular university supports academic success? What are the questions we should be asking, and who should we be asking them to? My son has received a 4-year offer to his top three schools.

 

[kinnem]

Do they have mandatory study hours? If their grades are falling do they have mandatory study hours? Do they provide tutors for some of the toughest subjects (eg. Calculus, Physics, Chemistry). What things DO they do to encourage academic success?

 

[Cat57]

My DS just dropped the program (NROTC - MO) in November. He was on scholarship and had been in the program since Fall of 2013. He was scheduled to graduate December 2016. In my heart, I believe, he knew that it was not the right fit for him after the first year but a combination of not wanting to disappoint people, being labeled a quitter and quite honestly not wanting to come back to his home state for college (he is at a great out of state school in a wonderful location) made him stick with program through his sophomore year. Unfortunately, that extra year is going to cost him. On the surface, he was doing well in the program, good PFT scores, handling the pressure of NROTC time commitments and carrying a high GPA, but he was miserable and just could not see himself making it through the rest of the program and the years of active / reserve duty that would follow once he graduated. I wish we would have dug a little deeper when I first had my suspicions after his freshman year. The paperwork has not been completely processed so at this time we are unsure of what kind of bill he will be handed for those first two years on scholarship. As many have said on this forum and I will reiterate again, make sure you can afford the school with or without scholarship.

 

[ginko]

One of my DSs is at USNA. It does seem like they want to protect their investment and get those students across the stage. Plebe treatment is brutal but they seem to pick students who can succeed. Lots of tradition there.

Other DS is at a small Army ROTC battalion. It seems like they are waiting for all the freshman dropping out to happen. DS said they started with 80 freshmen but there are only about 20 seniors. The structure seems like a large bottle necked weedout. If DS is correct on the number of seniors then one in four will stay in. I will say that the former enlistment/guard students seem annoying. DS says they lord it over him that they have been through boot camp but their grades and study skills are bad. I don't know if that is a normal situation. I'm glad my DS has more restraint than I do. I probably would have been kicked out by now because I would have had a problem with the boot camp graduates.

The ROTC dropout rate seems about right. I don't think they attempt to really weed folks out sp much as it is folks weed themselves out. I'm surprised to hear about the prior enlisted. I know in my son's NROTC unit these folks were key asset to helping the unit to run smoothly. and to provide information and an example in training. I doubt this is really an Army/Navy difference but, if your son's description is accurate, is probably more due to a culture within the unit. Or... maybe those guys ARE just obnoxious idiots.

Yes, obnoxious is a descriptor of what I'm hearing. Nevertheless, I now understand why varsity athletics is a good predictor of success in the academy and ROTC. In ROTC and the SA you will deal with very competitive people who are vying for position, much like a team situation. You have to be able to emotionally deal with all of the stupidity that comes out of people as a result. Unlike an athletic team, however, academic prowress does matter and can give you a distinct advantage amongst your peers.

Here's the main difference from a mom point of view: SA=many intelligent alpha males trying to best each other. ROTC=some intelligent and more not so intelligent alpha males trying to best each other.

 

[USMCGrunt]

Here's the main difference from a mom point of view: SA=many intelligent alpha males trying to best each other. ROTC=some intelligent and more not so intelligent alpha males trying to best each other.

Ginko, I am going to have to disagree with you. You are entitled to your point of view but in this case I believe it is short sighted. I do not think either program is all about alpha males trying to best each other. Furthermore, I do not think you can classify the SA students as being more intelligent than ROTC students. The programs themselves are obviously different. In the SA case, the students are immediately "in the military system" whereas ROTC units have scholarship and non-scholarship students (most of whom hope to earn a spot in the system). There is structure, chain-of-command, and history in both programs. There are also abuses, poor leadership, and other atrocities in both. Sorry to hear your DS ran into a bad unit. Its a shame.

 

[Sampia]

I'm still on the fence whether I'd like to take out loans or go ahead and accept the ROTC scholarship

Does it have to be either or? Murphey and I are old friends. His law rears its ugly head all the time. As was recently proven by the comment made to my son by his OIC that he might need a medical LOA for a hernia. He would lose his monthly stipend. Not sure if they would cover his tuition next semester or not. (He is due to commission at the end of next semester) I was reassured on this forum that LOA most likely won't be the case. He knows others at his unit that have had to take medical LOAs. Things happen, even beyond leaving the ROTC. Perhaps taking out those loans, saving the money "just in case" and then repaying it back when you have reached the end (graduation day, YAY!). We did take out some small federal student loans "just in case" and I am doubly glad that we did. Tuition will be covered next semester if the NROTC decides not to pay.