My son's ultimate goal is to be an active duty officer. When we went and spoke with his recruiter he made this very clear to them. They suggested he do the SMP program as his quickest path. He asked again if when he was done he would be able to go active duty and they assured him yes it was just some paperwork. He went through basic and his AIT school and then went to the University of Buffalo, not cheap mind you, to complete his college and ROTC commitment. I wasn't stressed because he was going to be getting money toward his education. Once there we discovered that if he takes any of the available scholarship money he will have to complete his reserve contract before he can go active duty. He has not currently signed his SMP contract for this reason. I am really really stressing about trying to help him achieve his goal and any advice or insite would be helpful to me.
ROTC reserves to active duty?
- Thread starter tlpost30
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Your first mistake was talking to a recruiter instead of talking to a ROO (recruiting operations officer) at an Army ROTC program. The recruiter probably talked you into SMP/Minuteman scholarship. The ROO would have first encouraged you to apply for the high school scholarship. He would have also told you that if you were interested in a minuteman or GRFD scholarship you would have a reserve/guard obligation. If competing for active duty is the ultimate goal then come to campus and compete for a campus based scholarship freshman year, while enrolled in Army ROTC. You really want to work with the ROO at Canisius to understand all the options available to a Cadet at UB.
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Has he spoken with his unit about an ROTC scholarship? Are there other scholarships or grants he might apply for?
Take away message for others reading this -
1. Do not rely solely on recruiters when you want to become an officer. Always speak to an Officer Selection Officer. Recruiters can be helpful but their job is to recruit and they generally know little about becoming an officer.
2. Do your homework and read the fine print before signing anything.
EDIT: Cross posted with the always wise Clarksonarmy.
Take away message for others reading this -
1. Do not rely solely on recruiters when you want to become an officer. Always speak to an Officer Selection Officer. Recruiters can be helpful but their job is to recruit and they generally know little about becoming an officer.
2. Do your homework and read the fine print before signing anything.
EDIT: Cross posted with the always wise Clarksonarmy.
He is already in Buffalo as a freshman. He started in the spring semester. So I should advise him to speak to the ROO at Canisius about his best options?
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That's your best bet now. Of course financial considerations can sometimes be paramount and he may need to take the Minuteman scholarship money in any case. If not the ROO then his freshman adviser, if they are not the same person. But ROO is probably best as the ROOs I meet on this forum (at least) are really expert on this stuff.
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Is he enrolled in Army ROTC? Has he already been offered a minuteman scholarship? If he wants to have active duty as an option he should talk to the ROO or his ROTC instructor ASAP. I’m not sure I fully understand what his current status is, but I would guess he may be very close to taking Active Duty off the table. Be aware that keeping Active Duty on the table may mean giving up some financial benefits. Kinnem is spot on, and I think your son may be close to making some consequential decisions based on discussions with an enlisted recruiter.
Dckc88
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He needs to talk to the ROO right away, we cannot answer that question for you, The Recruiting Operations Officer is a civilian employee who is there to help the battalion with all matters scholarship and recruiting for ROTC. Recruiters at a recruiting office have their own numbers to meet, and they recruit, that is what they do. They do not care about ROTC. Good luck to your son and keep us posted.
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His reserve contract is actually 8yrs, 6x USAR, 2x IRR. If he gets commissioned, he restarts the 8yr commitment as he is now an officer. Your son should compete for a campus based scholarship. If he is awarded one, he will have to be released from the USAR. The only scholarships an SMP cadet can get are GRFD (Guaranteed Reserve Forces Duty) Scholarships, which means he can not go on to active duty.
Just a general PSA for anyone who reads this thread: Never rely on ROTC information from an enlisted recruiter. They can not guarantee you a Minuteman Scholarship if you enlist, and they are incorrect when they say you can go on active duty with a Minuteman Scholarship. Most are not trained particularly well in regards to the intricacies of Army ROTC. Bottom line, their job is to get enlistments. Talk to a ROO if the goal is commissioning.
Dckc88
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And to the OP, this is confusing stuff, probably made sense to go see a recruiter at the time, however, as you are now learning, it isn’t the right path to commission, especially active duty. Recruiters are good at their job, as far as getting enlistments. One of the schools my daughter visited for a ROTC visit, she was told not to sign ANYTHING with a recruiter at a recruiting office without talking to the school first. We didn’t think that would be a problem as we knew about ROTC, and understood that was the right path towards commissioning. A NG recruiter at my daughter’s high school talked to her AFTER it was announced at school that she had earned a national AROTC scholarship. She came home chatting about the NG and how she wanted to join right away so she could go to basic before her freshman year. Her Dad and I were stunned! It wasn’t anything she had thought about before and after one conversation she was sold. We advised her to contact the ROO at the university she would be attending before doing anything. Not sure what he said but when we asked her about it, she just brushed it off and said “I decided not to do that.” The point is, she had a scholarship in hand for ROTC and was vulnerable to the idea of getting started by serving right now. She left that conversation with the NG recruiter feeling like if she didn’t do enlist first, the enlisted men and women who would be under her command would not respect her. So don’t feel bad that you didn’t know. This board is great for helping find the right path. Now that your son knows, he can talk to the ROO and try to get a campus based scholarship! Good luck to you and your son.
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The mileage definitely varies.
The Marine Corps recruiters were like that. One of them was very professional my DS when he was being considered for NROTC/MO as he gave my DS a ride to the next town for his officer interview. However another recruiter at the same office was pushing my DS for the Delayed Enlistment Program with the same kind of emphasis as Dckc88 was referring to.
The bottom line is focus on the ROTC recruiting personnel at the college for the best information....NOT the recruiting office.
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Ha! Everyone has a job to do. If your job is to put tops on bottoms, then you put tops on bottoms. They don't train recruiters for officer commissioning... they train them to recruit. They might even honestly think they're helping someone out, and the financial benefits in some cases can be attractive, but since they don't understand the commissioning/reserve/active duty aspects they charge down the path they know.
I have no knowledge of any of this so my fault I guess for not doing more research. That is exactly how it went with his recruiter. Go to basic first the people you command will respect you more... he just wanted to be in the army since he was 5 so we are thinking this is perfect but we are finding that we have to figure out a different path to achieve his dream.
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That pisses me off when an enlisted recruiter tries to pull that line. Whether or not you went to Basic does not affect the respect your Soldiers have for you. Basic Training is the MINIMUM requirement to be in the Army. Nothing very impressive or respect inducing about being able to pass the minimum requirement. Do college kids, get respect for passing HS from other college students? Why would passing the minimum entry requirement for the Army grant respect from other people already in the Army?
Respect is earned through your actions and competence as a leader.
I have been to a number of military schools, both officer and enlisted. Going to Basic definitely does not make you a better officer.
U Idaho Army ROTC
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His ROO and the program cadre should help him better understand his options. As he's already enlisted and completed basic training, if he wants to go active duty there are two options: 1) contract as a non-scholarship SMP cadet, which increases his drill pay and also gets him a monthly stipend in addition to any other benefits of his enlistment contract. 2) Pursue a campus-based scholarship (NOT GRFD / Minuteman), and then work through USAR to sign a DA 368 releasing him from USAR (this is what I did many many years ago). If he's already completed initial training USAR may be willing to sign it (and the recruiter will have already received credit for an enlistment), though it's entirely possible his unit is understrength and they would be less eager to sign it. He'll need to work that with his unit and his ROTC program.