Scholarship Question

Packer,

He is bringing up the case in Michigan/Minnesota. A woman won a million bucks and collected welfare for yrs after winning the lottery.

She was brought up on fraud charges, but honestly I don't know if she was incarcerated or not. It was only a few months ago.

To me this issue is BS when it comes to this debate, the reason why is again accepting a MERIT scholarship has nothing to do with how much money is in ones bank account. Taking federal funds due to financial need and winning a million dollars in a lottery is different.

Afterburner16 needs to view AFROTC and AFA IMPO as MERIT. Yes, money is tied to it because the recipient receives it, but from the AF POV never once was any candidate asked the ability to pay in the admittance/selection process.

Like I said, I would be Denzel and decline the money, but I also have been through this process 3 times(college applications) and know that just because someone declines it does not equate to someone else getting any money.

Afterburner16, let's tweak your supposition/argument.

Malia Obama is affluent, and she is also an URM, leave being the President's DD out of it. She attends one of the most elite private schools in the nation. 4 yrs from now if she gets accepted to Columbia or Harvard, should she turn it down because afterall, she is a legacy and a URM.

Your position if you are being equal would be she should turn it down, at least from a legacy perspective because others need it more.

We can play this game all day long, yet in the end, this is the system. Legacies at certain schools get an edge, but it doesn't mean they will give that spot to another applicant. Same with URM.

Goose meet gander, gander meet goose.

you have much experience and from it you definitely offer a lot of valuable insight. my questions were simple. because most of the scholarships i applied to required writing an essay on why they should award me the resources they have and why i need it. all i stated is that after you learn that you are accepted and that tuition,books,board and lodging is covered-what's the right thing to do? you have every right to keep it of course. just wondering how everybody else felt because we all have unique situations.
i had to notify colleges that accepted and offered scholarships to me before the deadline because they in turn had to go through the waitlisted deserving applicants and give them the good news.
thank you for an in depth response.
 
DS has been awarded seven scholarships from various local and national organizations. These are all merit awards that have nothing to do with financial need. He was forthright with each and every one of them regarding his intention to attend USFAFA. He even went so far as to point out to them that he would receive free tuition, room and board. He did point out that he would have many other expenses, including books, supplies, computer, uniforms, required fees, travel expenses, etc. In addition, he applied for at least a dozen others for which he was not selected. DS graduated 2nd in his class with a 3.992 unweighted gpa, while taking numerous honors, AP, and dual credit courses. He received offers of an appointment to USAFA, an LOA to West Point, and ROTC scholarships to both AF and Navy. Our family is lower end of middle class and even with four children we do not qualify for Pell grants or most of the other need based aid that is available. DS did not apply for any scholarships that strongly specified that financial need would be a strong consideration. While DS enjoys and is involved with sports he is not a superstar and none of my children will ever receive athletic scholarship funds of any kind. So, if they are going to receive any assistance it is merit and they have all worked very hard for any scholarship funds that they have received. While many of DS’s peers were lounging around and sleeping in over the summers, he was working 55 – 60 hours per week. During the school year he is involved with a list of school activities that is longer than my arm, including Debate, track, cross country, basketball, student council, National Honor Society, and others. This is in addition to various statewide leadership organizations that have required countless hours of time away from school and in the evenings and on the week-ends. There have been times that we have been concerned about the amount that he has taken on but are very proud of his “step up to the plate” attitude. These organizations chose who they felt best represented the qualities that they were looking for and chose my son. Other students could have stepped forward and applied themselves more and volunteered and been more involved but chose to hang out with their friends or just take it easy instead. He has heard the same kind of comments from some others already that he should have let someone have the money that needed it. There is always going to be those who are jealous. DS has worked hard and I feel that he is not doing anything wrong in accepting these funds. There was no misrepresentation. They knew his plans and wanted to award the funds to him anyway.

You painted a wonderful picture of your son and his accomplishments, rest assured that most of us here need no explanation of why your son has received these awards. Congratulations to him and good luck in his future.
 
"He has heard the same kind of comments from some others already that he should have let someone have the money that needed it. There is always going to be those who are jealous. DS has worked hard and I feel that he is not doing anything wrong in accepting these funds. "

i congratulate you for feeling that he is not doing anything wrong and that you think everyone else that doesn't agree with your position is jealous.
i wonder how your son/daughter really feels like?
 
you have much experience and from it you definitely offer a lot of valuable insight. my questions were simple. because most of the scholarships i applied to required writing an essay on why they should award me the resources they have and why i need it. all i stated is that after you learn that you are accepted and that tuition,books,board and lodging is covered-what's the right thing to do? you have every right to keep it of course. just wondering how everybody else felt because we all have unique situations.
i had to notify colleges that accepted and offered scholarships to me before the deadline because they in turn had to go through the waitlisted deserving applicants and give them the good news.
thank you for an in depth response.

The key point is "Why I need it" That's different then merit scholarships.

You seem to be under the impression that everything is covered at the Academy, I think many have told you that those costs are deducted from your stipend. Just like ROTC the Academy gives a stipend to cover some of the cadets extra expenses, you will soon learn it will not be enough for everything. The Academy and ROTC knows that holding a part time job is difficult, impossible at the Academies, that's why the stipend is given. Any merit scholarship given can help to off set the extra expenses that will come up,,,,and they do.
 
"He has heard the same kind of comments from some others already that he should have let someone have the money that needed it. There is always going to be those who are jealous. DS has worked hard and I feel that he is not doing anything wrong in accepting these funds. "

i congratulate you for feeling that he is not doing anything wrong and that you think everyone else that doesn't agree with your position is jealous.
i wonder how your son/daughter really feels like?

I sure hope you lose that chip on your shoulder before you report to the Academy, it will not serve you well.
 
I sure hope you lose that chip on your shoulder before you report to the Academy, it will not serve you well.

thanks for the advice. please don't be offended.
it is only through dialogue that we learn other people's point of view.
from what you're saying, i guess it's not true that everything is covered.
if that were so-what other expenses should i be looking out for?
 
As someone who's helped kids find college money/scholarships for years, I have absolutely no problem with an individual receiving scholarship money if they already have a full ride offer. As long as they don't lie during the application process of those scholarships. It's totally up to scholarship provider to set limitations. That's why there are many scholarships that say the money can only be used for tuition. Many require you to pay up front and they'll reimburse you with receipts with their name on the receipts. But that's up to the organization providing the scholarship.

I helped a girl who wanted to go to state university. She literally had no financial support from her parents. I showed her some methods for getting scholarships. She took my advice to heart and received 12 scholarships. Most were in the $500, $1000, or $2000 per semester. Most had no stipulations to them. They came from credit unions, elks, moose, church, etc... (There is a lot of money out there). Anyway; when tuition, books, dorm, food, labs, and ALL other expenses were paid in full; she still had approximately $1200 per month left over. She used this to spend so she didn't need to get a part time job.

Some will think she should give some of it back. Why? She didn't know the full price of everything when she started applying. She didn't know who would or wouldn't offer a scholarship. Same with an academy cadet. When they're applying for most of these scholarships, they didn't know if they'd be a cadet or not. Not sure if it's still the same, but in the army or navy, they didn't supply you with what you needed and took it out of your pay each month until paid off. You were expected to come to the academy with approximately $2500. (At least that's how I remember it).

Point is: Cadets need money at the academy too. It's not a full ride. And there's nothing wrong with using scholarship money to pay for those extra things. The scholarship has every right to say it's for tuition (Which can't be used at the academy); or that it's only used for room/board (Which they can't use at the academy). But, the scholarship can be left open for the recipient to use any way they want to. Most say: "Get at least an X.Y gpa and we'll keep giving it to you. Some are a one time only scholarship. More power to the cadet who can get a scholarship to pay for their computer, clothing, cleaning, etc...

P.S. I know one individual who had scholarships for school who also got a walkon and eventual full ride scholarship for playing soccer. "2" of his private scholarships clearly stated: "If the total of all scholarships and aid given to the recipient exceeds 105% of all associated expenses related to education, that this scholarship is rescinded and null and void". So again; it's the scholarship provider's responsibility if they want to allow a full ride student to still get their scholarship or not.
 
thanks for the advice. please don't be offended.
it is only through dialogue that we learn other people's point of view.
from what you're saying, i guess it's not true that everything is covered.
if that were so-what other expenses should i be looking out for?

You will have to pay for your computer, software, your books, haircuts (There will be many), all your tailoring expenses, travel expense. You will be paying for your uniforms and everything that will be added to them over the 4 years, and rest assured, uniforms are not cheap, just ask those that have purchased their dress uniforms for graduation. Add to all these expenses the cost of any food or drink you purchase, you also need to add in the expense of everyday items such ass toiletries. There are many other expenses that will occur, that stipend, what's left of it after the Academy takes the deductions, will be small and will sometimes barely cover the added expenses if at all. Don't be surprised if you need to get a withdrawl from the Bank of Mom and Dad sometimes. Unless of course there is someone that needs it more then you do.
 
You will have to pay for your computer, software, your books, haircuts (There will be many), all your tailoring expenses, travel expense. You will be paying for your uniforms and everything that will be added to them over the 4 years, and rest assured, uniforms are not cheap, just ask those that have purchased their dress uniforms for graduation. Add to all these expenses the cost of any food or drink you purchase, you also need to add in the expense of everyday items such ass toiletries. There are many other expenses that will occur, that stipend, what's left of it after the Academy takes the deductions, will be small and will sometimes barely cover the added expenses if at all. Don't be surprised if you need to get a withdrawl from the Bank of Mom and Dad sometimes. Unless of course there is someone that needs it more then you do.

appreciate the info.
barely cover is good enough because i wouldn't know how or where to get it from if i were relegated to option b or c.
for a doolie. what's a good estimate of out of pocket expense at least for the first year including BCT?
 
As someone who's helped kids find college money/scholarships for years, I have absolutely no problem with an individual receiving scholarship money if they already have a full ride offer. As long as they don't lie during the application process of those scholarships. It's totally up to scholarship provider to set limitations. That's why there are many scholarships that say the money can only be used for tuition. Many require you to pay up front and they'll reimburse you with receipts with their name on the receipts. But that's up to the organization providing the scholarship.

I helped a girl who wanted to go to state university. She literally had no financial support from her parents. I showed her some methods for getting scholarships. She took my advice to heart and received 12 scholarships. Most were in the $500, $1000, or $2000 per semester. Most had no stipulations to them. They came from credit unions, elks, moose, church, etc... (There is a lot of money out there). Anyway; when tuition, books, dorm, food, labs, and ALL other expenses were paid in full; she still had approximately $1200 per month left over. She used this to spend so she didn't need to get a part time job.

Some will think she should give some of it back. Why? She didn't know the full price of everything when she started applying. She didn't know who would or wouldn't offer a scholarship. Same with an academy cadet. When they're applying for most of these scholarships, they didn't know if they'd be a cadet or not. Not sure if it's still the same, but in the army or navy, they didn't supply you with what you needed and took it out of your pay each month until paid off. You were expected to come to the academy with approximately $2500. (At least that's how I remember it).

Point is: Cadets need money at the academy too. It's not a full ride. And there's nothing wrong with using scholarship money to pay for those extra things. The scholarship has every right to say it's for tuition (Which can't be used at the academy); or that it's only used for room/board (Which they can't use at the academy). But, the scholarship can be left open for the recipient to use any way they want to. Most say: "Get at least an X.Y gpa and we'll keep giving it to you. Some are a one time only scholarship. More power to the cadet who can get a scholarship to pay for their computer, clothing, cleaning, etc...

P.S. I know one individual who had scholarships for school who also got a walkon and eventual full ride scholarship for playing soccer. "2" of his private scholarships clearly stated: "If the total of all scholarships and aid given to the recipient exceeds 105% of all associated expenses related to education, that this scholarship is rescinded and null and void". So again; it's the scholarship provider's responsibility if they want to allow a full ride student to still get their scholarship or not.

thank you for your explanation.
you mentioned $2500 needed by a cadet before going in. how come this is the firs time i've been told this?
 
thanks for the advice. please don't be offended.
it is only through dialogue that we learn other people's point of view.
from what you're saying, i guess it's not true that everything is covered.
if that were so-what other expenses should i be looking out for?


So I guess that even though you say you value information and welcome dialogue about things, you skimmed over or ignored my post way back that listed many of the expenses a new cadet will be required to pay over the course of his/her first year--I even mentioned a dollar amount ($10,000+)--expenses my son has paid so I do have knowledge of this. Going in as a new appointee, I sure hope you weren't planning on getting rich off the stipend you will be receiving--it won't last long.

I hope you made your decision to attend the AFA on better information about other aspects of the Academy than the information you were lacking about this topic.


Edit: It used to be that new appointees had to come in with money for books, computer, etc. but now its different. New cadets are given an advance/loan of sorts, and payback is deducted each month from pay. You will not actually get a loan check that you pay back with a payment--its all done through your monthly pay. This is explained in the Instruction to Appointees booklet.
 
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Burner,

I say this to you and every other poster, this is not a texting forum. If you want to be taken seriously, as an adult, knock it off with the non-capitalization.

Sorry, just my pet peeve. I see your posts as a HS kid, not an adult because you are just being a kid. Hard to have an adult conversation when the poster can't manage to capitalize I or after a period a capital letter.

Done venting. Again, just my pet peeve!

I know this thread has been hard on you, but honestly this thread has been sweet as pie compared to BCT.

I think it is great you are open to other opinions, it will be an asset at the AFA.
 
So I guess that even though you say you value information and welcome dialogue about things, you skimmed over or ignored my post way back that listed many of the expenses a new cadet will be required to pay over the course of his/her first year--I even mentioned a dollar amount ($10,000+)--expenses my son has paid so I do have knowledge of this. Going in as a new appointee, I sure hope you weren't planning on getting rich off the stipend you will be receiving--it won't last long.

I hope you made your decision to attend the AFA on better information about other aspects of the Academy than the information you were lacking about this topic.
I I did read it. The $10,000 expenses that your son paid for-of that sum, how much was out of pocket and not have come out of the stipend?
 
Burner,

I say this to you and every other poster, this is not a texting forum. If you want to be taken seriously, as an adult, knock it off with the non-capitalization.

Sorry, just my pet peeve. I see your posts as a HS kid, not an adult because you are just being a kid. Hard to have an adult conversation when the poster can't manage to capitalize I or after a period a capital letter.

Done venting. Again, just my pet peeve!

I know this thread has been hard on you, but honestly this thread has been sweet as pie compared to BCT.

I think it is great you are open to other opinions, it will be an asset at the AFA.

Pet peeve aside, I have been warned time and time again that it's akin to "drinking from a fire hose". I am grateful that there are people that provide pertinent information.
Thank you.
 
from what you're saying, i guess it's not true that everything is covered.
if that were so-what other expenses should i be looking out for?

These are some general costs. Numbers may not be exact today since my son graduated in 2011, but it gives you an idea of what to expect.

Monthly
Linen fee $6/mo
Tailor fee 15/mo
Barber fee $10/mo
Computer maintenance $6/mo
Other club/travel fees for recreation $??


Yearly
Althletic fee $100
Allied Arts fee $70
Cadet Handbook $10
KAFA Radio $5
Yearbook $65
Clothing Issue #1 $210
Clothing Issue #2 $310


Also, on the subject of scholarships I just wanted to explain how the system works for the particular scholarship that my son had. All employees of the company (roughly 24,000 nationally) can have their children apply. It is a 4 page application, with the first two pages being academic record and personal statement (essay). The second two pages are parent's financial info. The scholarship is awarded in two stages. The first stage looks exclusively at the achievements of the student based on the academic record and essay. Once the committe has decided who will be getting a scholarship, there is a second group who decides how much each awardee will get based on the parent's financial info. The award amounts range from $1000/yr to $5000/yr. The scholarship is automatically renewable for up to the 4 years if the student maintains a 3.0. There is a clause that states anyone going to a service academy will automatically get the $1000 level. This acknowleges the kids success in school, but also keeps it fair. My son got the $1000 level and my daughter (non-SA) got the $5000. I will also say that there is no loss to anyone else if an SA student gets a scholarship. The company funds everyone who meets their criteria. In other words, if son hadn't taken the scholarship, no one else would have gotten the money. So, there is really a different story for each of the thousands of scholarships out there. It is really not possible to judge anyone else on which ones they decide to keep or decline.



Stealth_81
 
burnerafter16 said:
I have been warned time and time again

Reality check; time and time again won't fly at AFA, AFROTC or AD. One warning is all you will get before you feel true pain, and you never want to get that 1 warning!
 
These are some general costs. Numbers may not be exact today since my son graduated in 2011, but it gives you an idea of what to expect.

Monthly
Linen fee $6/mo
Tailor fee 15/mo
Barber fee $10/mo
Computer maintenance $6/mo
Other club/travel fees for recreation $??


Yearly
Althletic fee $100
Allied Arts fee $70
Cadet Handbook $10
KAFA Radio $5
Yearbook $65
Clothing Issue #1 $210
Clothing Issue #2 $310


Also, on the subject of scholarships I just wanted to explain how the system works for the particular scholarship that my son had. All employees of the company (roughly 24,000 nationally) can have their children apply. It is a 4 page application, with the first two pages being academic record and personal statement (essay). The second two pages are parent's financial info. The scholarship is awarded in two stages. The first stage looks exclusively at the achievements of the student based on the academic record and essay. Once the committe has decided who will be getting a scholarship, there is a second group who decides how much each awardee will get based on the parent's financial info. The award amounts range from $1000/yr to $5000/yr. The scholarship is automatically renewable for up to the 4 years if the student maintains a 3.0. There is a clause that states anyone going to a service academy will automatically get the $1000 level. This acknowleges the kids success in school, but also keeps it fair. My son got the $1000 level and my daughter (non-SA) got the $5000. I will also say that there is no loss to anyone else if an SA student gets a scholarship. The company funds everyone who meets their criteria. In other words, if son hadn't taken the scholarship, no one else would have gotten the money. So, there is really a different story for each of the thousands of scholarships out there. It is really not possible to judge anyone else on which ones they decide to keep or decline.



Stealth_81

Very helpful and informative. No way of finding this out unless you've "been there, done that". Thanks to this forum and what it offers for filling the gap of what the brochure says and what's on the fine print.
 
I I did read it. The $10,000 expenses that your son paid for-of that sum, how much was out of pocket and not have come out of the stipend?

A quick explanation first--The $10,000 figure I quoted just covers direct AFA expenses (like computer, uniforms--over $4500 first year alone, 1st semester books, fees, barber etc.) not personal expenses like toiletries, cleaning supplies that you'll need for inspections, recreation, flights home, etc. With that said, the cadets will get an advance (loan) to cover things like uniforms, computer, etc. but the payback period on some things will be up to 2 years, otherwise the cadets would not get a paycheck at all that first year to year and a half. Cadets this year earned $960 a month, before taxes, and before all the deductions and payback on the advances--you won't see anywhere near that amount. You'll see on your pay statement (online) that each deduction/advance is dealt with separately--meaning, your advance for your computer will show up as a separate deduction than your uniforms than your personal services (barber, tailor etc) so some of the smaller advances will be paid back faster than other large ones (like uniforms). Basically the cadets will still owe money to the AFA at the end of the first year. And this process will continue all 4 years, as there are always new expenses (dift uniforms etc.) to add to it.

Now, back to my son (since you asked), because he did get an outside scholarship of $2000, that money was used to pay off some of the smaller advances, so his net pay has been somewhat larger each month (smallest ever for him was about $24 I think) than a cadet without outside scholarships. His expenses that he has had to cover out of pocket include second semester books (no advance for those--so maybe a few hundred even with buying some used from other cadets), laundry service after Recognition, obviously all toiletries, cleaning supplies required to prepare for inspections, dining outs with his squadron (required, the squad or flight goes to a restaurant in COS), any recreation at all, flights home (avg. $400 x 4 flights=$1600), shuttle service to Denver airport ($45 x 3 =$135, cadets are on their own during summer leave), and probably other stuff I can't think of now. Just like at a civilian college. So my son probably has paid out over $2000 on necessary things, just not things the AFA gives an advance for. He has some money in the bank, partly because I gave him a last gift of $300 on I Day to start off his checking account, and partly because he does watch his money. Had he not gotten his outside scholarship, he would be in the position of having to run up a balance on his credit card so I'm glad he hasn't had to do that.
 
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