Service Transfer

This I’ve learned from teaching at our flagship state university: About half of college students are not yet prepared for that level of rigor, whether academically or personally or both. Whether inadvertently or not, they’re throwing away well-earned money for the simple deficiencies of immaturity, time mismanagement, lack of desire and, yes, scholastic unpreparedness. And this is at a well-regarded school with solid admissions standards!

DS and his two best friends got great grades and strong test scores en route to graduating from a top-notch college-prep private school. One friend decided he wasn’t quite ready for college and deferred his entry by one year. Another friend was all set to start at a highly ranked liberal-arts school before deciding she needed a year to steep after the covid craziness. DS proceeded as planned, largely because he was ready and eager to leave home.

I know he’s ready (knock on wood), but there should be no shame in taking a well-planned, well-intended gap year to truly set one’s mind to the challenge that is college. It’s not for everyone, and for those that it’s for, it may not be so right away.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Absolutely -- 100% true . I live in the Heartland --and one of the common themes I have heard from clients and community leaders over the years has been how hard it is to find good workers in our plants and factories. High Schools tend to judge their success by how many kids they send to college, not how they prepare a kid for the real world. We need people to man our factories and fix things ! One can make a good living in the trades.

There is often a similar attitude about enlisting in the Navy (or other branch). Many think that a kid graduating from HS should go directly to college , and that somehow enlisting in the Service is somehow not fulfilling their potential. To the contrary --many young kids (actually guys more than women) really don't know what they want to do, and enlisting in the military is a good "first job." I've seen a lot of good young men and women "find themself" and leave the military knowing what they want to do, and they get more out of college when they go. Of course, there are those that join the Service to find themselves..and wake up 20+ years later as senior enlisted-the backbone of any service. (I had a guy on one of my crews, 20+ years, First Class PO with more flight time literally around the world, and he was still sticking around because he didn't know what he wanted to do when he grew up !)
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I've often told the story of DD. We pushed her to go to college even though she wanted to take time off and enlist. After a semester, she dropped out and enlisted anyway. I have the gray hairs that went with the sleepless nights. One of my brothers, a USNA grad, talked me off the ledge. "She will be okay."
She later went to West Point from the ranks and was much more mature. Even though she wasn't a starter much less a star, she was selected by her varsity team as a captain her Firstie year. She is now a 2LT.
My cousin muddled through college because that's what was expected of him. He graduated with a worthless degree, and the jobs available didn't excite him. So he became an EMT. He matured. Applied for Navy OCS/flight training and was accepted. After his ADSO he left the Navy and went to medical school. He is now a well-known ER doctor.
I've said it many times on this forum. There are many paths to success. Some people take a little longer to bake.
 
I question the public schools ability to prepare its graduates for both college and the world. We say we do but the reality is, students who get into and excel in the top institutions are gifted and/or have extra help in the form of tutors and parents. Or they are hard workers or all three. Schools these days are too busy trying to narrow the achievement gap which unfortunately means bringing down the high performers to the level of the not so high performers. But, the achievement gap gets narrowed and the administrators pat each other on the back.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Absolutely -- 100% true . I live in the Heartland --and one of the common themes I have heard from clients and community leaders over the years has been how hard it is to find good workers in our plants and factories. High Schools tend to judge their success by how many kids they send to college, not how they prepare a kid for the real world. We need people to man our factories and fix things ! One can make a good living in the trades.

There is often a similar attitude about enlisting in the Navy (or other branch). Many think that a kid graduating from HS should go directly to college , and that somehow enlisting in the Service is somehow not fulfilling their potential. To the contrary --many young kids (actually guys more than women) really don't know what they want to do, and enlisting in the military is a good "first job." I've seen a lot of good young men and women "find themself" and leave the military knowing what they want to do, and they get more out of college when they go. Of course, there are those that join the Service to find themselves..and wake up 20+ years later as senior enlisted-the backbone of any service. (I had a guy on one of my crews, 20+ years, First Class PO with more flight time literally around the world, and he was still sticking around because he didn't know what he wanted to do when he grew up !)
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Most of our exchange students that we have hosted over the years are from Korea. Where they are mandated to do two years in the military. Some go directly after high school. Some do a year or two of college, then do their mando service, and then complete their schooling. Some stay in.

We have had many convos about this over the years. From my observation, it’s a fantastic program. The students simply plan these two years of honorable service into their young adulthood. None of them have debated or tried to not go. It’s just what is done.

And boy do they gain maturity and clarity. Personally I think it’s great. Not sure our American culture could swing it, though.
 
A few years ago I talked about my friends daughter who signed a commitment to play at Brown in tenth grade. She is now at Brown on the team as a freshman.

I reached out to him this morning to see how she is doing. He said it started rocky. Homesick. Finally coming around to being comfortable with team and friends and the Ivy setting.

Make your decisions carefully. Best of luck.
 
Devil Doc said:
I question the public schools ability to prepare its graduates for both college and the world. We say we do but the reality is, students who get into and excel in the top institutions are gifted and/or have extra help in the form of tutors and parents. Or they are hard workers or all three. Schools these days are too busy trying to narrow the achievement gap which unfortunately means bringing down the high performers to the level of the not so high performers. But, the achievement gap gets narrowed and the administrators pat each other on the back.
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DD went to a very good private "college prep" high school. The school brags about the acceptance rate to top-tier colleges.
DD always said they should talk about the graduation rate from top-tier colleges. She had many classmates who got to college and realized they needed time off. One good friend was waiting tables, saw DD enlist, and followed her into the ranks. Another high school classmate followed the exact same path as DD. They bumped into each other their Plebe year. Go figure.
 
justdoit19 said:
Most of our exchange students that we have hosted over the years are from Korea. Where they are mandated to do two years in the military. Some go directly after high school. Some do a year or two of college, then do their mando service, and then complete their schooling. Some stay in.

We have had many convos about this over the years. From my observation, it’s a fantastic program. The students simply plan these two years of honorable service into their young adulthood. None of them have debated or tried to not go. It’s just what is done.

And boy do they gain maturity and clarity. Personally I think it’s great. Not sure our American culture could swing it, though.
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I got to see this first hand as a lieutenant assigned to the Republic of Korea. We had KATUSAs (Korean Augmentee to the US Army) assigned to us. Normally, these were well-educated Koreans as they had to demonstrate English proficiency, serving their time before college.. You would see them mature over their two years of service.
 
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UHBlackhawk said:
I got to see this first hand as a lieutenant assigned to the Republic of Korea. We had KATUSAs (Korean Augmentee to the US Army) assigned to us. Normally, these were well-educated Koreans as they had to demonstrate English proficiency, serving their time before college.. You would see them mature over their two years of service.
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Sort of goes hand in hand with what happens in Israel. You serve when you graduate high school and only go to college after you finish your AD time. You wind up with a much more mature group of kids who go to college. Actually what happens is that they grad high school, do the military and then travel after they finish the military. Of course, it cant be true of everyone but then they go to college.
 
IMO, if you decide you need some time before college, be sure to use it productively. I'm not a fan of the "gap year" where 18-year-olds "hang out" for a year or more, living at home and doing nothing productive.

Some "kids" are fortunate enough to have parents who can pay for them to travel around the country or world (in non-COVID times). However, most don't. Those kids can still use the year productively.

Get a job (nothing like work to make you appreciate school). Learn a trade. Volunteer. Just do something other than be a couch potato.
 
So for some context, I am a current 3 Degree, and my first two choices for SAs were USNA and USMA, but USAFA is the only one that offered me an appointment. So I thought "hey a service academy is a service academy", I really didn't have the patience or discipline to do a year of NRTOC and then reapply for a shot at USNA when I had an appointment to USAFA sitting right in front of me. The Naval Service really has been my dream since I was a kid and going in I thought I'll just cross commission. Turns out you have to be a star cadet to even get a shot, and even then it's no guarantee. I am a mediocre cadet at best and know in my heart the Navy is for me. I guess I kind of "settled" for the Air Force with a mindset that a Service Academy is still a Service Academy. I "enjoy" this cadet lifestyle which is why I don't want to resign and do NROTC and why I want to go to a service academy.
 
Falcon, please don't take this as criticism, but why are you a mediocre cadet? Is it because you don't want to be at USAFA and thus your performance is mediocre? Is it the academics? Academics at any SA are tough.
What do you want to do in the Navy that you can't do in the AF? Obviously the AF doesn't have ships or subs, but they have lots of other similar jobs.
Control what you can control, which is being the BEST cadet at USAFA that you can be. Don't take the "you can't cross commission if you aren't a star cadet" -- become a star cadet.
Apply for semester exchange. If the job you want is only in the Navy, see if there is a summer program you could do if you give up one of your summer blocks.
DS knew of 2 classmates who cross commissioned Navy -- one was good cadet who really wanted SEAL and he worked for it, did summer program geared for it, and became a SEAL. The other wasn't a "star" but chose a job in the Navy, geared his classwork for it, and was able to convince people that was where he would best serve the in the military. I'm sure he got backing from faculty and found someone in the Navy willing to go to bat for him, but he managed to do it.
 
Good Luck, I hope it all works out for you but make sure you look both ways before you cross the street.
 
greentrees said:
Falcon, please don't take this as criticism, but why are you a mediocre cadet? Is it because you don't want to be at USAFA and thus your performance is mediocre? Is it the academics? Academics at any SA are tough.
What do you want to do in the Navy that you can't do in the AF? Obviously the AF doesn't have ships or subs, but they have lots of other similar jobs.
Control what you can control, which is being the BEST cadet at USAFA that you can be. Don't take the "you can't cross commission if you aren't a star cadet" -- become a star cadet.
Apply for semester exchange. If the job you want is only in the Navy, see if there is a summer program you could do if you give up one of your summer blocks.
DS knew of 2 classmates who cross commissioned Navy -- one was good cadet who really wanted SEAL and he worked for it, did summer program geared for it, and became a SEAL. The other wasn't a "star" but chose a job in the Navy, geared his classwork for it, and was able to convince people that was where he would best serve the in the military. I'm sure he got backing from faculty and found someone in the Navy willing to go to bat for him, but he managed to do it.
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It could be because the SAs are like Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.
 
justdoit19 said:
Most of our exchange students that we have hosted over the years are from Korea. Where they are mandated to do two years in the military. Some go directly after high school. Some do a year or two of college, then do their mando service, and then complete their schooling. Some stay in.

We have had many convos about this over the years. From my observation, it’s a fantastic program. The students simply plan these two years of honorable service into their young adulthood. None of them have debated or tried to not go. It’s just what is done.

And boy do they gain maturity and clarity. Personally I think it’s great. Not sure our American culture could swing it, though.
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After serving a number of years in Germany, I felt that the Germans mandatory 18 month service obligation for 18 yo men was a good
thing. It seemed like our American kids need that service experience to become better citizens. The benefits to our kids could be huge, ie: physical fitness, leadership skills, discipline, and respect to name a few positive attributes to be gained.
One major downside IMO is watering down our military.
We have the best Armed Forces in the world, and I believe it’s partly due to it being an all volunteer force. Essentially bringing back the draft would not be in our Nation’s best interest for the simple reason to have all capable young people serve a mandatory military obligation.
It would however be deemed a very productive gap 2 years if done by choice.

Anyone here been told to go to war or go to jail?
No need to answer that….
 
shock-n-awe said:
After serving a number of years in Germany, I felt that the Germans mandatory 18 month service obligation for 18 yo men was a good
thing. It seemed like our American kids need that service experience to become better citizens. The benefits to our kids could be huge, ie: physical fitness, leadership skills, discipline, and respect to name a few positive attributes to be gained.
One major downside IMO is watering down our military.
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I agree 100% that there are benefits to Universal Military Servce, or probably more appropriate - Unversal Community Service, as we really don't need everyone in the Military, and frankly some aren't fit for it.

I recall working at Scout Camp as a teen, and we had an Israeli Scout on staff --at 18 or 19, he was already a qualified F-4 pilot. I remember talking with him...kinda in awe , he was the most mature, poised and confident guy on staff (and a pretty good guy !). What was striking was that he didn't think of his service as a cool thing at all ... he was very matter of fact and considered it his duty.

The downside is as S-N-A says ..impact on good order and discipline and watering down the military. It would take a couple generations to change the mindset from service being a chore to be endured to recognition of community service as a shared duty. That would be a big turnaround in today's entitled society.
 
Some problems with drafting folks at this point because the US Military has gotten a LOT smaller relative to the US population since the end of the draft AND we would now have to draft females as well as males so the draft pool would far outstrip the numbers on active duty in the US military. This would result in taking in a pretty small percentage of the available pool which would defeat the "Universal" part that is being sought here. Outside of the military, there is no segment of the public service establishment that is ready at this point or in the forseeable future to take in hundreds of thousands or even millions of young Americans and put them to use while instilling the intended virtues of citizenship, responsibility, etc in them.
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When I was on my midshipmen cruises, I served alongside some of the final Vietnam draftees and in general, they were not generally the folks that I would want to work on MY aircraft, work in MY clinic, etc.
 
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