State/District Coordination Question

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by Dadx4, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Mods, BGOs, ALOs, RCs, anyone else. I tried to research this question on the forum, and I got patchy information, so I wanted to ask it directly. Do the academies know which Districts and Senators coordinate to avoid double-nominations (to the same or different academies)? Do they take coordination into consideration when one candidate has 3-4 nominations and the other from the same state has only one because they are inhibited by coordination policy?

    The coordination policy seems kind of random to me. Within my state, some Districts coordinate with Senators and others do not. I'm just wondering, if compared side-by side, would the academies favor the candidate with 3-4 nominations over the candidate with one due to coordination?

    Hypothetical: Let's say that candidate "A" has 3 nominations (no district coordination), and doesn't win the slate on the first 2, and is being compared on a Senator's slate with candidate "B" who has only one nomination due to coordination. I know that candidate "A" had more chances for appointment overall, but specifically on the Senator's slate, if candidates "A" and "B" had exactly the same WCS, would multiple nominations bump up candidate "A"? Same question for the NWL. Thanks. I don't quite understand the random application of coordination (if that makes sense). :),
     
  2. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    Dadx4
    I do believe that competitive districts practice coordination between senators and between senator and district congressional reps. So that more candidates can be offered nominations. And let the academy take care of selecting the candidates. Based on the nomination letter and the very competitive environment we live in, this hypothesis appear more true than speculation.

    In a less competitive or non competitive districts congressional reps offer 2 and even 4 nominations to a single candidate. This is very common. The fact is getting nomination from your district rep is a function of supply and demand in your local district. And if you are the most competitive candidate in your district then you get the Appointment. Except USCGA and ROTC Scholarships, Appointment to 4 other SAs is a district competition and not a national one like CGA and ROTC National Scholarship competition. It is ironic that getting nomination to prestigious federal academies is not a national competition, instead a local one that you compete against your buddies in your area and within your state.

    So I believe now, that recipients of ROTC National Scholarships are the true national winners. And the biggest losers are those great young men and women who live in highly competitive distinct who would otherwise can get nomination if lived in non competitive Districts. This is ironic when Academies are seeking the best candidates in the country. They are only getting the best in each districts and not from the country. Very ironic. The system forced SAs to leave so many best ones behind. It’s a darn shame, no thanks to the non true national merit system limiting qualified candidates to same number of nomination for each districts.
     
  3. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Thanks Jupiter. That makes coordination more clear to me. Even in competitive districts, some representatives choose not to coordinate (this is the case in my state). I was just wondering if academies take steps to factor in coordination. For instance, if candidate "A" is also from a competitive district that does not coordinate and has 3-4 nominations (including senator), and candidate "B" is also in a different competitive district withing the same state that coordinates and has only 1 nomination (senator only), will the academies weigh the extra congressional nomination in selecting the senator's slate winner? Wondering the same for NWL.
     
  4. billyb

    billyb 5-Year Member

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    "Best candidate" isn't easily definable. I had a classmate from Mississippi (nothing against MS, just using that as a real life example) that certainly wasn't as academically proficient as others, but he added a lot to our class as we learned a different type of upbringing and circumstances than many of us were exposed to. He did fine at USMA and in the Army. I am sure he was a good role model for soldiers in the Army from that part of the country. I also had a beast roomate that was American Indian. He was in rock math and struggled academically, but what he achieved from where he came from was awesome. Never saw a guy that worked harder. "Best" isn't always the highest test scores and most AP classes.
     
  5. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    Yes of course there are always exceptions to candidates and cadets like the ones you witnessed. And great to see those who work hard to catch-up and excel despite their weaknesses. But I implied nothing to test scores or GPAs or class rank. And the candidates I implied are Scholars Athletes Leaders and one’s who excel in service already. I implied to candidates who achieved the overall best WCS who do not get in because of the nominating system. I think you see my point. And I see this all around the forum and within my area. And it is sometime heart breaking to see candidates and families who feel let down despite their hard work throughout their youths.

    I have a Nomination but I don’t have 3 or 6 like some do. And many around me who are top notch Scholars Leaders Athletes don’t get to go because we are left to compete only within our district and state rather than nationally to study at a federal academy. While it is a federal institution the system for entry is designed more like a county and state school admissions. Giving preference to local candidates vs nationally competitive ones. VP Nom is like reaching for a Star in the sky, the only true national Nom. Presidential and Service Noms come with privilege of being in a military family and association to ROTC Programs so they are not true national Nom. Superintendent Nom is reserved for candidates who are disadvantaged, I believe this can be for URMs and that’s fine. They need extra fighting chance. Just making my frustration heard and sharing with others who may feel the same but lack the experience to articulate.
     
  6. billyb

    billyb 5-Year Member

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    I understand your frustration, however the academies are paid for by federal funds that come from every city and state so representation from all isn't crazy to ask. Also, the geographic makeup at the academy helps to mimic the diversity of soldiers that you will lead in the military.
     
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  7. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Hi billyb. Not questioning the diversity and geographic representation. Just questioning why, within the same state, one competitive district coordinates and the other doesn't, and whether coordination is factored into admission.
     
  8. billyb

    billyb 5-Year Member

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    Sorry dadx4. I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but Jupiter took it in another direction that we see every year (my stats are better than those that got in). When they leave the coordination of noms up to each MOC, there will definitely be inconsistencies and that is, unfortunately, something that is going to be out of your control. I can't answer the factoring into admissions question. I wish your DD/DS the best of luck!
     
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  9. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

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    From the discussion we have had with our Regional Consultant and the admissions office, and interactions with staff at alumni (DH is an Old Grad) at various functions, etc., this is not something they give any Whole Candidate Score (WCS) weighting/points for. The only thing it allows for is for the candidate to have multiple pools to compete within. As others have mentioned, for some slots, the "winner" will be the candidate with the highest WCS (or the Principal Nominee, if the MOC uses that method) and for others, West Point, will use the slot to fill some class composition goal. The reason that having multiple nominations can be advantageous is that West Point can then shift things around to make it easier for them to build out their class. With DS, he had 3 nominations (Representative, Senator and Presidential). He was given an appointment in the first big wave in January the year he got in. Based upon a previous conversation with the Regional Consultant, we are pretty positive that he was the clear "winner" of our district in that he had the highest WCS score. In the end, though, we do not believe that is the MOC to whom his appointment was charged. This is why - The Senator uses the Principal Nominee format and DS was not named the Principal, and we know the 2 boys (Senator had 2 vacancies open that year) who received the Principal Nominees, so we believe that he was not charged there. Another boy from our district was appointed in April. We know his parents, and the only USMA nomination he got was from our representative, so we assume this is the appointment slot he got. Because West Point wanted this other kid, too, they could have shifted my DS's appointment to one of the 100 Presidential slots. Or maybe there were other candidates who had one of the 100's of Presidential Nominations, but that was their only nomination, so they appointed those candidates using the Presidential slots instead, and moved my DS into one of the 150 slots from the national wait list pool. Maybe our DS was charged to the Representative, but the other boy we know was pulled in off the national wait list. So, we really won't know who DS's appointment was charged to until he requests a copy of his Admissions file and then he can find out. So my take on this, is that if West Point really covets certain candidates, they will juggle things around to get the class composition they desire. And it really makes it easier for West Point to do this when some candidates have multiple nominations, as it helps them put the pieces of the puzzle together to the get the class composition that they desire. Bottom line, if a candidate has one of the top 150 WCS in the country, they will get into West Point (assuming 3Q), as long as they have 1 nomination. If West Point really wants specific candidates to be a part of the class, they will find a way for it to happen, even if the candidate has no geographic nominations (i.e. Representative or Senator) and they will give them a VP or Superintendent nomination, instead.
     
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  10. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

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    So, yes, the academies know that in some state/districts there are some that do not coordinate and some do, but it doesn't matter to the individual WCS of a candidate.
     
  11. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    That clears it up. Thanks for the detailed explanation USMAROTCFamily.
     
  12. GHTeam

    GHTeam Member

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    Exactly.
     
  13. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator

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    This is a key reason for the entire nom process.
     
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  14. USMA 1994

    USMA 1994 Member

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    I can tell you a story about a young lady who applied only to USMA, that was her dream for many years, from the Great State of Texas. She only received a nomination from her Congressman and not the two Senators. I am not sure that they they actually coordinate with her MOC but getting a Senatorial Nomination in Texas is tough. She received a LOE early in the process and by Christmas, her RC had told her that she was #1 on her MOC's slate and was in good shape for an appointment. Fast forward to February and she found out that her MOC selected a principal nominee that was not her. Her RC told her that it would be close to come of the NWL. TWE came in mid March and she was crushed as no matter how hard she worked, she did not get in due to the "process".

    What did she do next? She accepted an ROTC scholarship and kept doing the same things she has always done. She made good grades in hard classes, competed on a Division I team and participated in her ROTC unit. She completed her application, had a service connected nomination as well as a nomination from her MOC that was not the principal again. She received her offer in the first wave for the class of 2021 almost a year ago and just finished her first semester. The second nomination gave USMA more options as others have discussed.

    This young lady is my DD who has worked hard at everything she has ever gotten.

    The system may not always seem "fair" but it is what we have to work with. Make sure you understand how the process works and always do your best.
     
  15. Jupiter

    Jupiter Member

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    Nice ending! I love it!
     
  16. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Gives us hope..... thanks USMA 1994
     
  17. gtbdevs

    gtbdevs New Member

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    From NJ, I have a congressional nom for USAF, only SA I went for. I called Senator Menendez Office, was told I wouldn’t be receiving a nom from him, since I had the congressional nom already. Also called Senator Booker’s office, but they wouldn’t tell me anything. I am from NJ05
     
  18. falconchic88

    falconchic88 5-Year Member

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    Dadx4,
    I'm not sure if anyone has really answered your question, and mainly because, unless they've sat on an admissions board, nobody really knows the answer. From what I have gleaned from the system after going through this process with all 4 of my children, having multiple noms will give someone more "chances" to be selected for an appointment because they are on multiple slates, however, I don't think admissions, when evaluating individual slates, take coordination into consideration and I don't think they give more or less consideration to a candidate because the number of nominations they did or didn't have. That said, I do believe its a big puzzle, and the academy uses all the nomination slates to create the picture of the class they know will make the best overall class, as USMAROTCfamily indicated above. For example, if they are looking at the slate your child is on and decide your child and another from that slate should be appointed, they may look to see if either of those candidates are on other slates, to see if they can "charge" their appointment elsewhere. If not, one is charged and the other competes nationally in the national pool, and would have a chance of being appointed that way.