The United States Merchant Marine Academy is just as good as USNA with benefits

NavyHoops

Super Moderator
5-Year Member
1. It’s not automatic to be selected for those services. Needs of the service win every time.
2. Not a Merchant Mariner, but from following this forum $150k out of the gate seems high from what I hear. USMMA grads I am sure can chime in.
3. USMMA is first and foremost a school that produces Merchant Mariners. Someone should go there with the full intent this is their future. The training is focused on this, as it should be. Great school, great mission, but there is way more to it than you can do anything and even make $150k!
 
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Jmoney457

Banned
1. It’s not automatic to be selected for those services. Needs of the service win every time.
2. Not a Merchant Mariner, but from following this forum $150k out of the gate seems high from what I hear. USMMA grads I am sure can chime in.
3. USMMA is first and foremost a school that produces Merchant Mariners. Someone should go there with the full intent this is their future. The training is focused on this, as it should be. Great school, great mission, but there is way more to it than you can do anything and even make $150k!

Even at the naval academy there's no guarantee any mid will be anything more than a SWO...

The way the Navy is going these days (McCain/Fitzgerald) egregious incompetence...I would think the Navy would want people who actually studied marine trans for 4 years than the ROTC or Naval Academy mid with a degree in history.

If you compared USNA '17 O-1 pay to USMMA '17 pay adjusted for those who went active duty, which do you predict would be higher?
 

NavyHoops

Super Moderator
5-Year Member
Yeap, everyone who goes to USNA and stays clearly understands thar needs of the Navy win over anything. Plenty of great USN SWO officers from USNA. Definitely some major leadership and other issues within the fleet. Unfortunately lives were lost to learn those. But there is more than navigation to running a war ship too. It’s one component of many, depending on the type of ship. Not following your last question... I read it as if someone from USNA and USMMA commissioned into the Navy as a SWO... well you know that answer.
 
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Full Metal Bulldog

5-Year Member
Even at the naval academy there's no guarantee any mid will be anything more than a SWO...

The way the Navy is going these days (McCain/Fitzgerald) egregious incompetence...I would think the Navy would want people who actually studied marine trans for 4 years than the ROTC or Naval Academy mid with a degree in history.

If you compared USNA '17 O-1 pay to USMMA '17 pay adjusted for those who went active duty, which do you predict would be higher?
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but there's nothing wrong with being a SWO. You're still a Naval Officer with all of the corresponding Duties and Responsibilities.
 

Jmoney457

Banned
Not following your last question... I read it as if someone from USNA and USMMA commissioned into the Navy as a SWO... well you know that answer.
Re-read and think...USNA Class of 2017 vs USMMA Class of 2017 (the members of the class who accepted active duty billets lowers the mean). Adjusting means eliminating those items from the mean...Do you think the average of non-AD USMMA grads of 2017 was higher or lower than O-1 Pay?

But there is more than navigation to running a war ship too. It’s one component of many, depending on the type of ship.
Exactly, navigation is only one component of many which the Navy performs exceedingly poorly at. Being on a DDG for some time and seeing the absolute misery of the SWOs makes me very sad for the pipeline of future SWOs.
 

NavyHoops

Super Moderator
5-Year Member
If I only would of thought, next time I will just remember to do that! Why are you trying to compare active duty pay to non-active duty pay? It’s pointless. Two different career paths. I am sure it’s higher on the USMMA side for those who did not go active duty. It’s actually a great selling point of USMMA. From following this site and even the postings on this thread, those who have gone this path are saying $150k is not accurate out the gate. Not sure what you are trying to get at? And not sure why you are trying to get all over me. I am a huge supporter of USMMA and have never said anything disparaging about the institution or mission. Heck if I had wanted to be a Merchant Mariner, USMMA would of been my first pick.

And not sure how much time you were on a DDG and it’s one experience on one boat among many. Pretty sure going from one ship to another in Merchant fleet can vary greatly too. And what makes you so versed to know that a DDG is running CIC operations, flight ops, drug counter measures, pirate operations or any of the dozens of missions/operations poorly to make that judgment? From what I can tell you are a Mid at USMMA, and even from your sea year experience you won’t do those operations on a Merchant ship. The SWO community can vary greatly from type of ship, each tends to have its own personality. That is well known in the SWO community. Each ship has its own personality also. The SWO community has its issues, there is no doubt. The Navy has recognized this and is making changes and will continue to. Bottom line of any changes, it comes down to good leadership and communication. They will figure this out and make some much needed adjustments.
 
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Jmoney457

Banned
If I only would of thought, next time I will just remember to do that! Why are you trying to compare active duty pay to non-active duty pay? It’s pointless. Two different career paths. I am sure it’s higher on the USMMA side for those who did not go active duty. It’s actually a great selling point of USMMA. From following this site and even the postings on this thread, those who have gone this path are saying $150k is not accurate out the gate. Not sure what you are trying to get at? And not sure why you are trying to get all over me. I am a huge supporter of USMMA and have never said anything disparaging about the institution or mission. Heck if I had wanted to be a Merchant Mariner, USMMA would of been my first pick.
You're right, USMMA non-AD pay is likely around 1.5x O-1 pay or more. I never said anything about $150k being accurate or inaccurate, maybe go back and re-read the thread. Those are someone else's comments. If you want to come around and poke at the school, etc. remember this. Attrition at the Naval Academy is also incredibly low these days, attrition at the Merchant Marine Academy is easily 2-3x. The USMMA Class of 2017 started with around 210 and 145 actually graduated.

From what I can tell you are a Mid at USMMA, and even from your sea year experience you won’t do those operations on a Merchant ship. The SWO community can vary greatly from type of ship, each tends to have its own personality. That is well known in the SWO community. Each ship has its own personality also. The SWO community has its issues, there is no doubt. The Navy has recognized this and is making changes and will continue to. Bottom line of any changes, it comes down to good leadership and communication. They will figure this out and make some much needed adjustments.
Have you sailed commercially? If not, I don't think you can speak about anything in regards to experiences in merchant shipping. There's variation in everything, and there are certainly great SWOs where the leadership is there. But with the number of people and redundancy on the bridge of a warship these days, the Navy's track record recently is incredibly embarrassing. The consequences of this go so far as to cast a doubt on the United States' position as a military superpower in the eyes of adversaries.
 

Wishful

"Land of the free, because of the brave..."
5-Year Member
The way the Navy is going these days (McCain/Fitzgerald) egregious incompetence..
As I recall, the initial investigations into these accidents contributed them to overwork, lack of sleep, lack of required continuing training/maintenance attributed to the high (I would say overreaching) demands placed on the Pacific Fleet. I have not seen a final report. I fail to see "egregious incompetence" here, but you do. Would you please expand on your above quote?

Also I think it's fair to say that if you are a Mid at USMMA, you are not in a position to, from an informed prospective, criticize the manpower/redundancy assigned to the bridge of a warship anymore than I am. It's also fair to say the NavyHoops has forgotten more about the dynamics of naval command than you have learned yet. God gave all 2 ears & only one mouth for a reason.
 
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