Time to Float the Idea of Liberty for the Mids

[Big Ugly]

I have a few conduits of information into the current class of mids and their general mindset and here is my opinion: everything that is being done from a public health and epidemiological standpoint on the yard is being done to minimize and prevent deaths from infection; that we all can appreciate. What I think is about to happen though is just as serious but will be coming from a different direction-for again, and it’s my opinion, but with no liberty, no sponsor families, and no parental visits (hell, at least in prison they have conjugal visits) these kids are going to need some way to blow off steam and recharge their batteries, or someone is going to end up getting hurt. I believe the first tenet of medicine goes something like,” …do no harm.”

 

[kinnem]

I have a few conduits of information into the current class of mids and their general mindset and here is my opinion: everything that is being done from a public health and epidemiological standpoint on the yard is being done to minimize and prevent deaths from infection; that we all can appreciate. What I think is about to happen though is just as serious but will be coming from a different direction-for again, and it’s my opinion, but with no liberty, no sponsor families, and no parental visits (hell, at least in prison they have conjugal visits) these kids are going to need some way to blow off steam and recharge their batteries, or someone is going to end up getting hurt. I believe the first tenet of medicine goes something like,” …do no harm.”

A 20 mile hike ought to do it.

 

[Capt MJ]

An oblique approach and serious suggestions - bring in some of the 17-20 year old sailors, junior officers out of USNA, a master chief or two, and a CO from the USS IKE battle-group, for a FORRESTAL lecture and panel discussion. Topic would be the leadership challenges, self-coaching techniques, team-building skills, morale-maintaining activities to get through a seven-month deployment at sea, operating, with occasional snail mail and limited internet, setting a record of 200+ days without port liberty off-ship, parental visits or sponsor visits. How did they do it?

Carrier Ike back in Norfolk following more than 200 consecutive days at sea

The Eisenhower and the guided-missile cruiser San Jacinto pulled into Norfolk Naval Station on Aug. 9, following a seven-month deployment in which they operated in U.S. 5th and 6th Fleet.

www.navytimes.com

 

[Big Ugly]

Capt. MJ.

I always value your opinion. I would also say though that the Naval Academy is not a tactical asset. Its political objective is good public relations and if you want to win the war were fighting against Covid you have to dominate the PR.

4600 Mids may have just let out a collective moan with the thought that another Forrestal Lecture would ameliorate the psychological hazards to come in the next 104 days before Christmas vacation.

 

[Capt MJ]

Capt. MJ.

I always value your opinion. I would also say though that the Naval Academy is not a tactical asset. Its political objective is good public relations and if you want to win the war were fighting against Covid you have to dominate the PR.

4600 Mids may have just let out a collective moan with the thought that another Forrestal Lecture would ameliorate the psychological hazards to come in the next 104 days before Christmas vacation.

I appreciate your point of view and perspective.

My thought was the mids might want to hear from those they expect to join one day about how to cope with situations like this, both personally and professionally, as aspiring junior officers and future leaders at sea. But I’m not a mid at the Bancroft Pen living in the moment there.

 

[Kierkegaard]

I agree with both perspectives. Without getting too deep into the weeds, I can say that serious mental health issues have already arisen as a result of all this. (There was a scare over the weekend but everyone is physically safe thankfully.) Current strategy is not sustainable. On the other hand, war is hell and USNA’s mission is to build warriors. I don’t know what the solution is. You could say that someone who can’t handle being stuck in Bancroft indefinitely doesn’t have what it takes to be in the Navy, and perhaps that’s true, but they’re already at the Academy so what’s going to happen? A lot of the mids who are severely struggling can’t handle the shame they’d feel by DORing, or they simply have no place to go—these are the ones who heartreakingly search for a way out. Again, I don’t know what the solution is.

 

[Walman888]

An oblique approach and serious suggestions - bring in some of the 17-20 year old sailors, junior officers out of USNA, a master chief or two, and a CO from the USS IKE battle-group, for a FORRESTAL lecture and panel discussion. Topic would be the leadership challenges, self-coaching techniques, team-building skills, morale-maintaining activities to get through a seven-month deployment at sea, operating, with occasional snail mail and limited internet, setting a record of 200+ days without port liberty off-ship, parental visits or sponsor visits. How did they do it?

Carrier Ike back in Norfolk following more than 200 consecutive days at sea

The Eisenhower and the guided-missile cruiser San Jacinto pulled into Norfolk Naval Station on Aug. 9, following a seven-month deployment in which they operated in U.S. 5th and 6th Fleet.

www.navytimes.com

That, was a good one.

 

[MidCakePa]

You could say that someone who can’t handle being stuck in Bancroft indefinitely doesn’t have what it takes to be in the Navy

^^^ THIS ^^^

If I’m an enlisted sailor or Marine — especially a non-comm -- I’d be seriously rolling my eyes at what I’m reading, seeing and hearing about the mids. Maybe even a bit disgusted.

Not to make light of mental health, but this is an important gut check for mids. What will you do when you’re at sea or downrange for the umpteenth month? Perhaps wishing you had one of those King Hall takeout meals, a care package from home, and access to delivery from Jimmy John’s or Mission BBQ.

I’m with @Capt MJ: Bring in some young enlisted personnel to talk about their one call home at the start of boot camp and how their parents didn’t get to see any photos courtesy of the Alumni Association, and how they’d love some of that King Hall chow.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
Cooped up humor ...

 

[gonavy14]

Seriously, they've been there less than 2 months. They have unlimited internet and phone, 4000 other people to talk to, and they're busy with school work. It's not that rough. I'd agree that the Sailors and Marines they'll be leading probably aren't too impressed with them complaining this much about being trapped at school for a little while with unlimited access to contact with friends and family.

 

[THParent]

Personally, I like the Army of Darkness clip. That's one of those rare 3-shot, double-barreled shotguns.

 

[usna1985]

While not on a ship, I spent 6 straight months on deployment in winter on base at Keflavik, Iceland, with the exception of one day (it was dark, so it seemed like night) going to the Blue Lagoon (which was NOTHING like it is today -- then just a tiny little changing hut next to the pool). We had no car and, at the time, almost no one off base spoke English. There was NOTHING anywhere near the base to which to walk (if you wanted to walk more than a mile in the dark with 40 mph of wind). So we were stuck on base -- day in and day out.

There were no computers, no Internet, no email, no Skype. One channel of TV (AFARTS) with mostly taped programs from 3-4 years prior. You had work, workout (had a really nice lap pool), and maybe going the exchange on Saturday. Phone calls were through an operator and cost $2/minute. And we were thankful we were land-based instead of doing all the above on hey's grey and underway. And most of us took it as time for personal improvement

I get it sucks to be stuck on the Yard. But it's not prison. If you think it is, tell it to the elderly folks who have been locked down in their assisted living/nursing facilities -- many since mid-March. Some don't know if they will be alive by the time they get to see their loved ones. And if you still think you have it bad, tell it to the men who spent 7 years as a POW in Vietnam. Not 7 weeks. Not 7 months. 7 years.

 

[SCubb]

Today’s generation isnt the same as past generations. Some of those changes are positive changes, some are not, but we can’t ignore the differences and expect them to act like we did/do. Most of the complaints I hear surround the inconsistently applied and occasionally irrational COVID restrictions. It’s no different then the frustrations about inconsistencies I hear across the country and among my friends. But when I hear about the two “incidents” this weekend, my ears perk up.
Bringing in people who’ve been on ships for months to relate their experiences
Bringing in former POWs
Both could tell current Mids they don’t have it so bad and doing so might help.
But simply ignoring points of view from the Yard expressed by Kierkegaard, or Skipper07 from previous posts because they are soft compared to past generations

 

[BrightSide]

^^^ THIS ^^^

If I’m an enlisted sailor or Marine — especially a non-comm -- I’d be seriously rolling my eyes at what I’m reading, seeing and hearing about the mids. Maybe even a bit disgusted.

Not to make light of mental health, but this is an important gut check for mids. What will you do when you’re at sea or downrange for the umpteenth month? Perhaps wishing you had one of those King Hall takeout meals, a care package from home, and access to delivery from Jimmy John’s or Mission BBQ.

My guess would be that it's not the mids out on the yard that are interacting with 4000 mids and have free time to fish/play frisbee/get take out that are struggling, but the ones that are or have been sequestered. Those in iso are confined to a room, the food is pretty bad (there are supposed to be snacks to supplement but there aren't so they're losing weight), packages still not delivered (despite the posts), no chance of takeout food and not thousands of others to talk to but one. Or maybe none. They're restricted from workouts and are getting no communication on release date. Would the fleet be disgusted at the mids struggling with that? What I am hearing is that some are fine in there (mine seems ok), biding time and calling siblings, etc. But some, especially those without roommates, are really struggling.

Perhaps it's just time to rethink the isolation policies. Do they need to isolate hundreds of mids because of a few positives?
Or could isolation look different? Food/workouts/chaplain visits. I'm not privy to the details of the decision making but maybe if something needs to give, that's a pressure point to examine.

 

[Korab]

I agree with both perspectives. Without getting too deep into the weeds, I can say that serious mental health issues have already arisen as a result of all this. (There was a scare over the weekend but everyone is physically safe thankfully.) Current strategy is not sustainable. On the other hand, war is hell and USNA’s mission is to build warriors. I don’t know what the solution is. You could say that someone who can’t handle being stuck in Bancroft indefinitely doesn’t have what it takes to be in the Navy, and perhaps that’s true, but they’re already at the Academy so what’s going to happen? A lot of the mids who are severely struggling can’t handle the shame they’d feel by DORing, or they simply have no place to go—these are the ones who heartreakingly search for a way out. Again, I don’t know what the solution is.

They haven't arisen, they have been revealed.

You could say it, and it would be true.

 

[OldRetSWO]

While not on a ship, I spent 6 straight months on deployment in winter on base at Keflavik, Iceland, with the exception of one day (it was dark, so it seemed like night) going to the Blue Lagoon (which was NOTHING like it is today -- then just a tiny little changing hut next to the pool). We had no car and, at the time, almost no one off base spoke English. There was NOTHING anywhere near the base to which to walk (if you wanted to walk more than a mile in the dark with 40 mph of wind). So we were stuck on base -- day in and day out.

There were no computers, no Internet, no email, no Skype. One channel of TV (AFARTS) with mostly taped programs from 3-4 years prior. You had work, workout (had a really nice lap pool), and maybe going the exchange on Saturday. Phone calls were through an operator and cost $2/minute. And we were thankful we were land-based instead of doing all the above on hey's grey and underway. And most of us took it as time for personal improvement

I get it sucks to be stuck on the Yard. But it's not prison. If you think it is, tell it to the elderly folks who have been locked down in their assisted living/nursing facilities -- many since mid-March. Some don't know if they will be alive by the time they get to see their loved ones. And if you still think you have it bad, tell it to the men who spent 7 years as a POW in Vietnam. Not 7 weeks. Not 7 months. 7 years.

My semester is about to start and I'm interested to hear if this semester's students have been able to get out much. I know that quite a few
of our students from last semester were house-bound for 4 or more months. Not restricted to a campus, actually stuck in their house. We
have a large number of first generation immigrant students and it seems that a lot of their parents were very frightened and locked down the
whole family and for some of them, it went into July and maybe beyond. Serious lockdown with grocery delivery and nobody going out at all.
Anything coming in that was non-perishable (incl packages, mail, etc) getting put into the garage for days, etc.

 

[A1Janitor]

My guess would be that it's not the mids out on the yard that are interacting with 4000 mids and have free time to fish/play frisbee/get take out that are struggling, but the ones that are or have been sequestered. Those in iso are confined to a room, the food is pretty bad (there are supposed to be snacks to supplement but there aren't so they're losing weight), packages still not delivered (despite the posts), no chance of takeout food and not thousands of others to talk to but one. Or maybe none. They're restricted from workouts and are getting no communication on release date. Would the fleet be disgusted at the mids struggling with that? What I am hearing is that some are fine in there (mine seems ok), biding time and calling siblings, etc. But some, especially those without roommates, are really struggling.

Perhaps it's just time to rethink the isolation policies. Do they need to isolate hundreds of mids because of a few positives?
Or could isolation look different? Food/workouts/chaplain visits. I'm not privy to the details of the decision making but maybe if something needs to give, that's a pressure point to examine.

My son was sequestered for two weeks in June. He said it wasn’t bad.

I would like to see the statistics. Are the vocal few speaking for the silent majority on this?

 

[BrightSide]

My son was sequestered for two weeks in June. He said it wasn’t bad.

I would like to see the statistics. Are the vocal few speaking for the silent majority on this?

Good question, are they keeping statistics on depression from isolation? My son seems ok, so I agree, some are handling it fine. But not everyone is.

My thought was that if we are dealing with a mental health situation, we might start by looking for one or two of the biggest contributing factors. This seems worth a look.

I'm definitely not vocal, and not complaining at all, just reminding some of the previous posters that not everyone has free access to the yard/other mids/food.

 

[shock-n-awe]

Common questions always asked by service members regarding a mission,task, or detail assignment:
What is our mission?
Why are we doing it?
Why are we doing it this way?
When does it end?
Whose idea was this?
Who can I complain to?


This mission sucks!

Our Cadets/Mids are on a 47 month mission. It is not without these same questions and statement by many at some time or another. The current protocol in place is receiving criticism by them and parents alike. The goal of this mission is to safely graduate each class. I personally do not agree with much of the response to this “epidemic “, but it is what they/we face.
On the mental health front, that too is a factor that always must be handled proactively and taken seriously. Suicides in our military is real and happening for many different reasons (has been for years). CofC must always due diligence to minimize that serious health risk as well.
Support our SA’s and their missions........graduate our kids and keep them safe.

 

[helmsdown]

My guess would be that it's not the mids out on the yard that are interacting with 4000 mids and have free time to fish/play frisbee/get take out that are struggling, but the ones that are or have been sequestered. Those in iso are confined to a room, the food is pretty bad (there are supposed to be snacks to supplement but there aren't so they're losing weight), packages still not delivered (despite the posts), no chance of takeout food and not thousands of others to talk to but one. Or maybe none. They're restricted from workouts and are getting no communication on release date. Would the fleet be disgusted at the mids struggling with that? What I am hearing is that some are fine in there (mine seems ok), biding time and calling siblings, etc. But some, especially those without roommates, are really struggling.

Perhaps it's just time to rethink the isolation policies. Do they need to isolate hundreds of mids because of a few positives?
Or could isolation look different? Food/workouts/chaplain visits. I'm not privy to the details of the decision making but maybe if something needs to give, that's a pressure point to examine.

ISO Mids are given a time slot and allow to work out at Hospital Point and a lot of them do. Only those tested positive are restricted to quarters.