"Turned Down"

I think this thread has run its course.

Kids will be kids, and jargon is certainly a big part of being a kid.

However, kids who apply to SAs are not your average kids and need to be aware of this during the entire process, including written communication.

The going back and forth on this thread can go on for an eternity. Nobody will be right, and nobody will be wrong. So I suggest we just end it.
 
The key here is that young adults applying or reapplying for admittance to service academies need to adjust course and make their applications stronger. That’s what they are asking. How do I improve?

Remarks by people such as myself who are decades older then current applicants aren’t meant to ‘pile on’ or ‘harass’. Or to make applicants feel bad.

This forum was intended to help those who want to navigate this process.

For those who recently received a turn down, damn- it is rough and you are likely to be frustrated, sad and disappointed.

Don’t mistake the remarks by sage posters as criticism. Don’t take them as snide remarks. Take them as the first course correction you can make if you intend to reapply.

In the end, millimeters matter. So many competitive, outstanding candidates don’t achieve their dream. Not because they aren’t stellar, but because it is a game of numbers and there aren’t enough slots each year to account for the outstanding youth who apply.

When someone on this forum suggests a change of tone or grammar, it isn’t to make you mad. It’s to help you. It’s to guide you toward your stated goal on a public forum.
 
USNA2026crs said:
So if a candidate is turned down, and they have also applied for an NROTC, when will they know regarding NROTC scholarship? Any ideas? Also, What is better for their first year with intent to reapply - Corp of Cadets at VT (out of state for us) or at a local university without doing anything ROTC?
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The main NROTC boards are basically complete. If the candidate hasn't received notification, then they probably didn't get the scholarship.

I suggest going over the ROTC part of the forum (under Other Sources for Commissioning).
 
TPC12 said:
Please, take it down a thousand. I challenge you or anyone on this forum who hasn't done something stupid or not in their own best interest when they were young. Everyone on this site knows what they did and did not do when they were 17, even if they don't want to admit it to themselves. If your are USNA 1978 that means you are least 66 years old. Don't compare 66 to 17. Think about when you were 17. I guarantee you remember what dumb mistakes you made at that age, so keep that in mind. There is more than one day in a person's life especially when you are 17.
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I regret that you think that I was harsh in any way but I assure you that if that seemed harsh then you are not going to believe what Plebe Summer will be like or going further, what it will be like when a Command Master Chief or Sergeant Major "counsels" a new Ensign or Second Lieutenant.
Feel free to reject what I'm saying because "young people being young people" and because I'm old or whatever reason you might choose to cling to but you may want to consider:
1. I'm a Blue and Gold Officer that interacts with hundreds of candidates
2. I do nomination interviews for my MOC and have done them for the Senators for many years.

By the way, I'm probably very similar to many of the BGOs and Interviewers who you'll meet along the way. FYI I happen to teach university
students about interviewing (among other things) and help them improve and thus far based on student critiques it is one of the most
valued parts of my courses.
 
I am reading through this thread and you can tell who takes life very serious. Here are my thoughts.

Obviously, if your talking to a senior officer, then yes you talk to them with respect and appropriate language.

However, if your talking to someone your age group then slangs and informality is fine. It seems like the first part of the thread was just high school students expressing their thoughts about the future to each other in an informal way which is completely fine.

I can tell you right now NO 2ND LT at TBS will talk to each other with formality or proper grammar. Only to those who outrank us and our President. I promise you at TBS if I was a Butter Bar and I called out 2ND LT Smith for using slangs to another 2ND LT, people will look at me stupid. Butter Bars at TBS will talk to each other with slangs, F bombs, and informality.


Slangs, informality, probably isn't used much in Plebe Summer or Boot Camp but when you get to your unit or squadron, it is all over the place. Don't walk into your unit or squadron on the first day as a Butter Bar and tell everyone, "no slangs and cussing", no one will like you. I promise you that.





OldRetSWO said:
I assure you that if that seemed harsh then you are not going to believe what Plebe Summer will be like or going further, what it will be like when a Command Master Chief or Sergeant Major "counsels" a new Ensign or Second Lieutenant.
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Uhm ok? So because they addressed each other with slangs or informality means they can't take the heat of Plebe Summer?
 
Anguswarrior112 said:
I am reading through this thread and you can tell who takes life very serious. Here are my thoughts.

Obviously, if your talking to a senior officer, then yes you talk to them with respect and appropriate language.

However, if your talking to someone your age group then slangs and informality is fine. It seems like the first part of the thread was just high school students expressing their thoughts about the future to each other in an informal way which is completely fine.

I can tell you right now NO 2ND LT at TBS will talk to each other with formality or proper grammar. Only to those who outrank us and our President. I promise you at TBS if I was a Butter Bar and I called out 2ND LT Smith for using slangs to another 2ND LT, people will look at me stupid. Butter Bars at TBS will talk to each other with slangs, F bombs, and informality.


Slangs, informality, probably isn't used much in Plebe Summer or Boot Camp but when you get to your unit or squadron, it is all over the place. Don't walk into your unit or squadron on the first day as a Butter Bar and tell everyone, "no slangs and cussing", no one will like you. I promise you that.






Uhm ok? So because they addressed each other with slangs or informality means they can't take the heat of Plebe Summer?
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This site is "mixed company" for sure and I'll just leave it at that.

You did not understand my comment about Command Master Chiefs/Sergeant Majors at all. It was not how they'd react to language choices, it was that if they think that I am harsh about things, just wait until you see how they "counsel" people about shortcomings WHATEVER they might be.
 
I seem to be forgetting what the original thread was about..Oh I think it was about being turned down. The good and terrible about these forums is that you can get lots of advice about everything and usually from everyone. There are pure nuggets of wisdom on courses to take, whether or not to attend Boys/Girls State, sports, grades vs difficulty level, you name it. As for myself, the process 40+ years ago was on paper and not digital. There were no social media platforms with "the gouge" on what to do and what not to do. I feel quite confident that I would NOT have been appointed today, and would have instead received the dreaded "turned down". Candidates today are too good and I was too lucky.

I also think I would have been initially crushed and then, hopefully, rebounded and become the officer that I eventually became, regardless of the commissioning source. Truth is, I don't know, because that didn't happen to me, so I cannot imagine how I would actually have responded. I hope that anyone that got turned down this cycle has the resilience to get up and find their way, whatever that may be.

Hopefully you take pride in yourselves more than the critiques of others. I have met absolutely terrible leaders that are Academy grads and I have met the polar opposites from all other sources. Its the person not the place. Best of luck to all of you in your next steps.
 
OldRetSWO said:
This site is "mixed company" for sure and I'll just leave it at that.

You did not understand my comment about Command Master Chiefs/Sergeant Majors at all. It was not how they'd react to language choices, it was that if they think that I am harsh about things, just wait until you see how they "counsel" people about shortcomings WHATEVER they might be.
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I'm not saying what you said was harsh at all and I don't think that is the case other posters were referring too. I need to emphasize TXSUB's statement "One of the things I learned at USNA and as a sub JO is when to turn it on and when it’s ok to turn it off", this is what I am referring too. If a Butter Bar calls out two PFCs in his/her Platoon for talking to each other using "imma" and tells them to use proper grammar, I can guarantee you they will not be looked up upon as a good leader. Just one that likes to pick on people for their own sake.


For the OP, I wish you success despite being turned down. There are many alternate paths to commission and as long as your put your heart and mind to it, you will be successful.
 
TXSUB said:
I’m an experienced military officer AND an academy grad and using a bit of informality on an informal forum is fine in my book. One of the things I learned at USNA and as a sub JO is when to turn it on and when it’s ok to turn it off. Pounding on a kid for using a bit of informality comes off as ”toolish” and “holier than thou.”
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Spot on: Turn it on and turn it off (or turn it up and turn me loose - if you listen to Dwight Yoakum's advice). We all have times where we speak casually to each other, at all ages. "Imma" is common slang for people under 30/35 AND he was replying to someone else his own age in an informal forum. This doesn't mean he's going to use this slang in a BGO interview or with other adults. I've got AF kids under 25 and we sponsor AF cadets - there's a whole lotta "imma" going on when they talk among themselves - just like slang when we adults were in our 20s. (Sorry for the use of lotta.)
We used slang and knew older adults didn't understand it, so this should make us know that current youth are doing the same thing. If we don't think we know it, then use the Google.
 
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I think experienced folks put a lot of pressure on themselves thinking that they have to have an answer for everything and that any perceived error/misdirection by the younger generation has to be corrected. But, that mentality can put people off. Another thing is that military life doesn’t have to be stuffy and formal all the time. It can’t be, especially if you want to make a life out of it because, wow, that’s exhausting. I always thought academy grads differentiated themselves from others a bit by their practical approach to things and their recognition of grey areas (at least right out of school anyway). Now, we have an opportunity to teach these kids, in this forum maybe, that military life can be fun and difficult, formal and informal, and just as normal and sustainable as any other profession.
 
hopefulpilot said:
Just checked my USNA portal today and saw this. I did not have a nomination for this school, but I didn't know what it looked like when you were rejected. I kinda wish I would have received an email from them saying that I was "turned down", but at least I know now.
View attachment 11767
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My son had the same, he did not get a nomination for USNA. Good luck on your other plans!!
 
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