USAFA Cadet Death

I am not guessing or speculating. I got my information from the coroners report published in the news. What is incorrect?
https://nypost.com/2024/10/05/us-ne...-cadet-avery-koonces-cause-of-death-revealed/
"With all that oversite they still denied her the appropriate care and sent her back to her room to die. And the worst thing about it is it seems if she would have gotten something as simple as antibiotics she would be alive today."

The above statement is incorrect and highly inflammatory.

I'm not going to argue with you, I have no horse in this race other than to see a proper investigation and corrective actions if required.
 
"With all that oversite they still denied her the appropriate care and sent her back to her room to die. And the worst thing about it is it seems if she would have gotten something as simple as antibiotics she would be alive today."

The above statement is incorrect and highly inflammatory.

I'm not going to argue with you, I have no horse in this race other than to see a proper investigation and corrective actions if required.
You already are arguing with me. She sought treatment. You know that.
 
A more recent article stated that a rare bacteria was found in the cadet's lungs with a greater than 70% mortality rate. Investigations continue into Avery's care to determine if anything could have prevented her death.

 
I am about 94% sure that during my tenure at USAFA, that there were times that Mitch’s ran out of food completely at dinner, or maybe just some food items. Also, IIRC, we all understood that dinner was a matter of “first come, first served”. If you got there “late”, that was on you. You figured out a Plan B. That could have meant buying food from the “C-store”. Or digging through the overhead bins in our cadet dorm room for food that we had squirreled away. Or going in with a few other cadets to order some BlackJack pizzas. The worst case scenario was always the vending machines.

But back then, we never felt the need to call the Gazette Telegraph to tell them about our lack of planning.

I am assuming cadets still do not go through SERE between their 4 degree and 3 degree years???

These would be pilots do understand there are no buffets to stop at while they are land nav’ing at night between partisan camps up in the mountains surrounding Fairchild AFB, right?
I agree with you on most things, but not this one.


I don't agree with your description of "our" lack of planning. That implies that it was the cadets failed to properly prepare meals at Mitch's. It was USAFA leadership lack of planning. They didn't plan on feeding the cadets - the cadets under their care. That is incredibly newsworthy, and I appreciate the whistle blowers. This wasn't SERE.

I'm all for locking down the Zoo and the beatings to continue until morale improves, but it's pretty simple to understand that when you create a mandatory increase in demand for food you better increase the supply of food.

This is some sorry leadership. Really pathetic.
 
I would like to know where you got your information. I ask that because it is incorrect. I was in her Squadron 2 days ago. As for those saying there is no investigation going on, that too, is incorrect.

Stop guessing, stop speculating, and please stop making accusations and let the investigation finish. Just like an aircraft mishap investigation, it takes time.
The point was made that it is also an assumption that an investigation is underway. I didn't see that confirmed until your post. Where/when was this information released?
 
I thought Capt MJ said the investigation is automatic based on regulations?
In the Navy, it’s called a Line of Duty Investigation (LODI). Done whenever there’s a death or significant injury. They investigate whether that person was in the line of duty or not when it occurred, and also was the injury/death caused by their own misconduct or not
 
I thought Capt MJ said the investigation is automatic based on regulations?
Yes, the JAGMAN requires an investigation for certain things automatically. “Death JAGs” for accidental deaths and serious injuries. They can range from simple to complex, from a few pages yp hundreds. They can also be directed by higher authority.
 
I agree with you on most things, but not this one.


I don't agree with your description of "our" lack of planning. That implies that it was the cadets failed to properly prepare meals at Mitch's. It was USAFA leadership lack of planning. They didn't plan on feeding the cadets - the cadets under their care. That is incredibly newsworthy, and I appreciate the whistle blowers. This wasn't SERE.

I'm all for locking down the Zoo and the beatings to continue until morale improves, but it's pretty simple to understand that when you create a mandatory increase in demand for food you better increase the supply of food.

This is some sorry leadership. Really pathetic.

I only appreciate whistleblowers when they have already exhausted every other option to correct a situation, first.

Maybe I missed it in the media’s reports. Did the cadets raise the food issue with their AOC’s first (Or whatever they are called now)?

Was it worked up the chain of command?

Were other avenues used to correct the situation?

The reason I ask is because at this point or from where I am sitting, it appears that some petulant “kids” were mad that the Superintendent was cracking down on standards and restricting them to the cadet area. So their knee jerk reaction was “to drop a dime” to the Gazette Telegraph as a way to get back at the Superintendent.

I could be wrong though.

In fact, I hope I am wrong.

I’ll have a better handle on things in just about 10 days.

EDIT: As of right now, I am of the opinion that a three star Superintendent’s job does NOT include having to know the Mitchell Hall inventory. Nor should he have to check in with Mitchell Hall staff…”I’m thinking about putting the cadet wing on restriction for two weeks. Do ya’ll got enough food?”
 
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WAIT!

WHAT?

The cadets have access to say (propane) grills and/or Blackstone Griddles….like on the ground levels of the quads?

And google still says there is a commissary on the Academy “base”?

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And the commissary does still sell meat/beef/steak…right?

They sell hamburger buns?

Hot dog buns?

Cheese?

Ketchup?

Mustard?

Etc?

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EDIT: and I know for a fact that in the early 1990’s the AOG provided funds for hamburgers and bratwursts and buns to be used by individual cadet squadrons for their tailgates prior to home football games. It would be easy to say “Sorry AOG, we used those funds instead for a BBQ on Wednesday instead of the tailgate on Saturday since we are restricted. Mitch’s ran out of beef/steak.”
 
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The outdoor grills were put away in early August as part of the clean up and they are still put up. My cadet used to grill burgers often on weekends last year. That is no longer allowed as there are no grills on the quad to use. They also disposed of all cooking type equipment in cadets' rooms such as rice cookers during the health and wellness check they did while cadets were on restriction. They are allowed to have a hot pot but no other cooking equipment such as a foreman grill or rice cooker. Maybe those were never allowed but many cadets had them. The cadets have a very demanding schedule and it is important for them to have the necessary nutritional base to be successful at the Academy. Lack of proper nutrition can also contribute to illnesses. It is difficult for younger cadets to access the Commissary as that requires a car. The C store has some basic groceries but the hours are limited and it is only open from 9 to 4 on weekdays. Many cadets have no breaks in that time period to shop.
 
View attachment 16983

WAIT!

WHAT?

The cadets have access to say (propane) grills and/or Blackstone Griddles….like on the ground levels of the quads?

And google still says there is a commissary on the Academy “base”?

View attachment 16984

And the commissary does still sell meat/beef/steak…right?

They sell hamburger buns?

Hot dog buns?

Cheese?

Ketchup?

Mustard?

Etc?



EDIT: and I know for a fact that in the early 1990’s the AOG provided funds for hamburgers and bratwursts and buns to be used by individual cadet squadrons for their tailgates prior to home football games. It would be easy to say “Sorry AOG, we used those funds instead for a BBQ on Wednesday instead of the tailgate on Saturday since we are restricted. Mitch’s ran out of beef/steak.”
I do know for a fact that some of the upperclassmen/squadrons did step up & "take care of our squadron" (yes, a direct quote) by going to the commissary and purchasing healthy snacks and food during the restriction. They did what they could to keep morale up while trying to get everyone back into regs. Kudos on their show of leadership!

Note that the restrictions have been eased for several weeks now. Cadets have passes to leave base (though somewhat reduced; ie, the firsties do not have unlimited passes.)

I just want to be clear that the Wing is not currently restricted to base. The number of passes has been reduced since the Wing is about 75% back in regs.
 
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The outdoor grills were put away in early August as part of the clean up and they are still put up. My cadet used to grill burgers often on weekends last year. That is no longer allowed as there are no grills on the quad to use. They also disposed of all cooking type equipment in cadets' rooms such as rice cookers during the health and wellness check they did while cadets were on restriction. They are allowed to have a hot pot but no other cooking equipment such as a foreman grill or rice cooker. Maybe those were never allowed but many cadets had them. The cadets have a very demanding schedule and it is important for them to have the necessary nutritional base to be successful at the Academy. Lack of proper nutrition can also contribute to illnesses. It is difficult for younger cadets to access the Commissary as that requires a car. The C store has some basic groceries but the hours are limited and it is only open from 9 to 4 on weekdays. Many cadets have no breaks in that time period to shop.
Cadets still have clothes irons…right?

For putting creases in their sleeves, right?

And otherwise getting rid of wrinkles….

“Striver creases”…anyone else remember those?

A clothes iron can get placed upside down between the faucet and the backsplash of the “valet” in the cadet dorm room. That makes an improvised hot plate.

A can of soup or a chili can then get placed on on top of the now upside down clothes iron.

I had heard of two clothes irons being put together to squash-make grilled cheese ssndwiches.

Back in the early 90’s, when we had CRT’s for our computers and issued cable-company-like-tuner boxes, a little jumper wire from the co-axial connector on the back of the tuner box to one of the prongs of the iron’s electrical cord turned the iron into an antenna capable of getting local off base TV stations.

One of your C-130’s is returning from the Sandbox. It makes a stop in Gander, Newfoundland. It ends up being “hard broke”. It is the middle of winter in Gander. None of the aircrew have cold weather gear. The C-130 needs an engine replacement.

What do you do?

You…

FDD9B762-7F64-4BC3-ACA1-626D1C359696.jpeg

(You get with the ACC scheduler to get one of your other wing C-130’s on the “books” to fly up to Gander with a suicide jack (for the engine), a new engine, some wrench turners, and cold weather gear. Then you keep your fingers crossed that both planes are now Alpa-1 or Code-1 and can return to base un-eventfully.)
 
I love MacGyver stories. The grilled cheese improve is a classic. A new thread would be appropriate and maybe even helpful as a resource for SA mids and cadets. I would even have a few stories to contribute.

But, ramblings about the availability of grills and ironing shirts should not be on a thread about this young lady's unfortunate, and possibly, preventable passing.

Don't mean to be a Debby downer.
 
I love MacGyver stories. The grilled cheese improve is a classic. A new thread would be appropriate and maybe even helpful as a resource for SA mids and cadets. I would even have a few stories to contribute.

But, ramblings about the availability of grills and ironing shirts should not be on a thread about this young lady's unfortunate, and possibly, preventable passing.

Don't mean to be a Debby downer.
I think that's a great idea ... I'll be waiting for your new thread. ;)
 
For those interested, this is Avery's cadet room alcove. I as well as some cadet leadership was a little concerned about how long they were going to keep this quasi Memorial, but it was explained to me they wanted it up until her parents visited sometime this month.

As to usafa1993's question regarding the investigation, I asked while in the Squadron and was informed that an investigation is still currently going on.

Edit: I asked about other things I have stated in previous posts that were confirmed.
 

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When your "improvise, adapt, overcome" meme is more important than a death, it tells a lot about your character.
The problem is that this thread has multiple topics and different discussions going on. This is not an uncommon thing to happen, but in the case of this particular OP, it would seem most appropriate to stay on subject.
The other discussions are fine, but should occur outside of this thread.
I believe the “Adapt and overcome “ meme had nothing to do with the OP and was referring to one of the many other discussions

Let’s try to keep this thread on the rails with the OP out of respect to the death of Cadet Koonce and the ongoing investigation….
 
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