USAFA Cadet Death

ZoomieFrom1994 said:
As far as the food comment goes, I read about the lack of beef or steak on another forum. The cadets came off sounding like whining prima donnas.

I am kind of old “skool”, so if I was Supt for a month or so, my response would be to make sure 10 cases of MRE’s got dropped off at each CQ desk.

As far as the healthcare comment goes, this is information from 30+ years ago, but we had firsties and two degrees as both first BCT and second BCT cadre who where specially trained “counselors”. Their job was mainly to keep tabs on basic cadets’s mental health…to a degree. One would think that back then, these “counselors” would also advocate for their overall health and welfare as well. I would be curious if such a program is still in existence today, and if so are Basics made aware that they can go to these cadets to ask for help and/or advocate for them?
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And maybe that is the problem. When cadets have issues they are "drama queens" and now it's too late for Avery.
 
Osprey123 said:
And maybe that is the problem. When cadets have issues they are "drama queens" and now it's too late for Avery.
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Let me rephrase my other post/put a finer point to it: the media reports made the cadets sound like whining prima donnas.

Not that I wholeheartedly 100% agree or believe anything and everything the Gazette Telegraph publishes about USAFA.

At least when I was a cadet and having to go to the cadet clinic, I always got the impression that the staff there, especially the enlisted personnel, automatically assumed we were malingering until we could prove our case otherwise.

I am assuming that back then the enlisted personnel were doing some sort of triage / prioritization.

I have no idea how it is done now.
 
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USAFAGradMom said:
Her parents were there for Parents Weekend just a few days before she passed away so I'm assuming she had access to a car (and the input of her parents) over that weekend. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse very quickly after PW
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I am assuming Parent’s Weekend was over the Labor Day weekend???

And there was most likely a home football game on Saturday???

How much time do the cadets, especially the 4 degrees, have to spend with their parents/family out of that whole weekend?

How many civilian doctors have a practice open on the weekends? Saturdays? Or on Labor Day? If you first see your kid on Friday afternoon of PW, how quickly can a parent get on the phone to schedule an appointment with a civilian doc/practice?

Who wants to spend maybe 5 plus hours of Parent’s Weekend sitting in an ER?

I could see Avery’s cough being dismissed as “Jack’s Hack” along the lines of “Ohhhh….mom, dad, don’t worry. This is just Jack’s Hack. Everybody gets it after second “beast”.”

But I am just speculating here.

I know I looked horrible when my parents came to see me that first PW. Between the weight loss, lack of sleep, and the dark circles/bags around my eyes, I’m sure my parents were wondering if I was going to make it. However, I am sure that the other parents in the Parent’s Club warned my parents ahead of time: “Your son is going to look horrible. Be prepared for ________, _______, and ______.”
 
ZoomieFrom1994 said:
I am assuming Parent’s Weekend was over the Labor Day weekend???

And there was most likely a home football game on Saturday???

How much time do the cadets, especially the 4 degrees, have to spend with their parents/family out of that whole weekend?

How many civilian doctors have a practice open on the weekends? Saturdays? Or on Labor Day? If you first see your kid on Friday afternoon of PW, how quickly can a parent get on the phone to schedule an appointment with a civilian doc/practice?

Who wants to spend maybe 5 plus hours of Parent’s Weekend sitting in an ER?

I could see Avery’s cough being dismissed as “Jack’s Hack” along the lines of “Ohhhh….mom, dad, don’t worry. This is just Jack’s Hack. Everybody gets it after second “beast”.”

But I am just speculating here.

I know I looked horrible when my parents came to see me that first PW. Between the weight loss, lack of sleep, and the dark circles/bags around my eyes, I’m sure my parents were wondering if I was going to make it. However, I am sure that the other parents in the Parent’s Club warned my parents ahead of time: “Your son is going to look horrible. Be prepared for ________, _______, and ______.”
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To answer your first few questions...
Yes, Parents Weekend was over Labor Day Weekend.
There were PW activities planned starting with a parade on Friday morning & squadron activities throughout the afternoon. Cadets were free to spend Friday evening with family but had to be back to attend a home football game on Saturday. Cadets were then free to leave with parents/family after the game on Saturday and were required to return to USAFA on Monday evening.
Avery passed away on Wednesday evening ):
 
USAFAGradMom said:
To answer your first few questions...
Yes, Parents Weekend was over Labor Day Weekend.
There were PW activities planned starting with a parade on Friday morning & squadron activities throughout the afternoon. Cadets were free to spend Friday evening with family but had to be back to attend a home football game on Saturday. Cadets were then free to leave with parents/family after the game on Saturday and were required to return to USAFA on Monday evening.
Avery passed away on Wednesday evening ):
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Thank you for answering my questions.

Sad.
 
USAFAGradMom said:
Her parents were there for Parents Weekend just a few days before she passed away so I'm assuming she had access to a car (and the input of her parents) over that weekend. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse very quickly after PW
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Correct
 
My DD was GRAY when we saw her on Acceptance Day. She couldn't breath but instead of helping, the clinic sent her running back and forth across the Terrazzo for a variety of excuses including not having a mask or they were at lunch or they didn't have time to see her. Finally they said on that Saturday that they didn't even have staff on duty who could approve her going to the ER. To go off base without permission is AWOL. Even with help from upperclass cadets, it took HOURS for her to navigate getting the AMC on duty to approve the ER. SHE HAD PNEUMONIA.

I know the liaison here will blame the cadets as 'needing to advocate for themselves' and give a story about her daughter... BUT, AVERY WAS SOMEONE'S DAUGHTER AND FRIEND. And the clinic and leadership needs to be responsible for their continued negligence of the cadets' health. My heart breaks for those parents and fellow cadets who I am sure tried to help their daughter/friend navigate the system but hit roadblocks from leadership.
 
Serenity2517 said:
My DD was GRAY when we saw her on Acceptance Day. She couldn't breath but instead of helping, the clinic sent her running back and forth across the Terrazzo for a variety of excuses including not having a mask or they were at lunch or they didn't have time to see her. Finally they said on that Saturday that they didn't even have staff on duty who could approve her going to the ER. To go off base without permission is AWOL. Even with help from upperclass cadets, it took HOURS for her to navigate getting the AMC on duty to approve the ER. SHE HAD PNEUMONIA.

I know the liaison here will blame the cadets as 'needing to advocate for themselves' and give a story about her daughter... BUT, AVERY WAS SOMEONE'S DAUGHTER AND FRIEND. And the clinic and leadership needs to be responsible for their continued negligence of the cadets' health. My heart breaks for those parents and fellow cadets who I am sure tried to help their daughter/friend navigate the system but hit roadblocks from leadership.
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Amen. As a parent, I am real tired of hearing "trust the system" or "cadets need to self advocate". It is the same thing on fb. This is not okay. And the food issue was real. They ran out of everything, not just steak. Athletes were the most impacted due to getting to dinner later because of practice. Leadership failure is the issue.
 
Serenity2517 said:
My DD was GRAY when we saw her on Acceptance Day. She couldn't breath but instead of helping, the clinic sent her running back and forth across the Terrazzo for a variety of excuses including not having a mask or they were at lunch or they didn't have time to see her. Finally they said on that Saturday that they didn't even have staff on duty who could approve her going to the ER. To go off base without permission is AWOL. Even with help from upperclass cadets, it took HOURS for her to navigate getting the AMC on duty to approve the ER. SHE HAD PNEUMONIA.

I know the liaison here will blame the cadets as 'needing to advocate for themselves' and give a story about her daughter... BUT, AVERY WAS SOMEONE'S DAUGHTER AND FRIEND. And the clinic and leadership needs to be responsible for their continued negligence of the cadets' health. My heart breaks for those parents and fellow cadets who I am sure tried to help their daughter/friend navigate the system but hit roadblocks from leadership.
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No one is blaming the cadets. I understand the anger but do not direct it toward people who are trying to help.

Are there issues with how overwhelmed the clinic is? Yes, of course. That's not hard to see. Of course that needs to be fixed. It is under investigation (see my previous post).

Trusting the system doesn't mean turning a blind eye to issues. If you are a parent, I recommend contacting the USAFA Parent Liaison Team with your concerns. They can do more to help get your message to leadership than posting on a public forum that they do not read.

As someone who has also lost a daughter, I am personally devastated by Avery's death. I understand better than most the pain and anger that comes from that.

Here is the contact information for the Liaisons:

ROSE “MARIE” NIKOVITS & CARRIE A. CLANCY
USAFA Parents’ Liaison Team
Strategic Communications
U.S. Air Force Academy, CO
(719) 333-3828 Toll Free (877) 268-3383
Email: USAFA.parentliaison@afacademy.af.edu

As this is a forum for candidates and those seeking advice on applying to service academies, I think its a great idea for others to post their past experiences or their "kids" experiences at USAFA. I would never turn my nose up at someone with experience giving advice. There are a lot of ALOs, BGOs, and officers, and yes, parents who have a lot of valuable knowledge.
 
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Serenity2517 said:
My DD was GRAY when we saw her on Acceptance Day. She couldn't breath but instead of helping, the clinic sent her running back and forth across the Terrazzo for a variety of excuses including not having a mask or they were at lunch or they didn't have time to see her. Finally they said on that Saturday that they didn't even have staff on duty who could approve her going to the ER. To go off base without permission is AWOL. Even with help from upperclass cadets, it took HOURS for her to navigate getting the AMC on duty to approve the ER. SHE HAD PNEUMONIA.

I know the liaison here will blame the cadets as 'needing to advocate for themselves' and give a story about her daughter... BUT, AVERY WAS SOMEONE'S DAUGHTER AND FRIEND. And the clinic and leadership needs to be responsible for their continued negligence of the cadets' health. My heart breaks for those parents and fellow cadets who I am sure tried to help their daughter/friend navigate the system but hit roadblocks from leadership.
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Serious question…pardon the slight thread drift….

Is it now considered Absent Without Leave (AWOL)?

Or is it simply Over The Fence (OTF)?

OTF used to be the less painful infraction of the two….. if caught.

Getting back to the food shortage thing, does Mitchell Hall not plan and/or stock enough food for say a blizzard where nobody is coming in to make deliveries and no one is able to drive out of the cadet area and/or base?

Slight thread drift again, there is an old black and white photo in one of the old Polaris yearbooks that shows a cadet literally jumping from the Bring Me Man ramp area of the t-zo down into the snow below on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. This was right after some blizzard. And, no! This wasn’t snow piled up by the plows.
 
ZoomieFrom1994 said:
Serious question…pardon the slight thread drift….

Is it now considered Absent Without Leave (AWOL)?

Or is it simply Over The Fence (OTF)?

OTF used to be the less painful infraction of the two….. if caught.

Getting back to the food shortage thing, does Mitchell Hall not plan and/or stock enough food for say a blizzard where nobody is coming in to make deliveries and no one is able to drive out of the cadet area and/or base?

Slight thread drift again, there is an old black and white photo in one of the old Polaris yearbooks that shows a cadet literally jumping from the Bring Me Man ramp area of the t-zo down into the snow below on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. This was right after some blizzard. And, no! This wasn’t snow piled up by the plows.
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Its OTF.

I DMed you.
 
ZoomieFrom1994 said:
Slight thread drift again, there is an old black and white photo in one of the old Polaris yearbooks that shows a cadet literally jumping from the Bring Me Man ramp area of the t-zo down into the snow below on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. This was right after some blizzard. And, no! This wasn’t snow piled up by the plows.
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May have been the blizzard that hit in my firstie year. By noon, all power was down, no way in or out. Staff, teachers, etc all moved to the dorm. Mitches ran out of regular meals, we were down to cold cuts and bread. Cadet store ran out of smokes, I remember that as my biggest complaint. But I don't recall anyone blaming anybody for our conditions. Fun at first but got real old after a day or two.
 
Serenity2517 said:
I know the liaison here will blame the cadets as 'needing to advocate for themselves' and give a story about her daughter... BUT, AVERY WAS SOMEONE'S DAUGHTER AND FRIEND. And the clinic and leadership needs to be responsible for their continued negligence of the cadets' health. My heart breaks for those parents and fellow cadets who I am sure tried to help their daughter/friend navigate the system but hit roadblocks from leadership.
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What she said!
 
soccer67 said:
May have been the blizzard that hit in my firstie year. By noon, all power was down, no way in or out. Staff, teachers, etc all moved to the dorm. Mitches ran out of regular meals, we were down to cold cuts and bread. Cadet store ran out of smokes, I remember that as my biggest complaint. But I don't recall anyone blaming anybody for our conditions. Fun at first but got real old after a day or two.
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Food issues due to a blizzard is understandable. How about an entire month of food issues? There is a difference between an unexpected natural event and a planned one.
 
Mitches wasn't ready for the entire Wing to be restricted, so the upperclassmen were forced to eat at Mitches (can't go off base for food). Definitely a logistical issue that wasn't taken into consideration.
 
SpiritCommitteeLiaison said:
Mitches wasn't ready for the entire Wing to be restricted, so the upperclassmen were forced to eat at Mitches (can't go off base for food). Definitely a logistical issue that wasn't taken into consideration.
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Normally, these kinds of things are hashed out at staff meetings. It's hard to imagine that this seemingly didn't happen, but clearly something fell through the proverbial crack. Maybe we'll someday find out. Meanwhile, have things settled out, and if so, will someone tell us what that looks like?
 
soccer67 said:
Normally, these kinds of things are hashed out at staff meetings. It's hard to imagine that this seemingly didn't happen, but clearly something fell through the proverbial crack. Maybe we'll someday find out. Meanwhile, have things settled out, and if so, will someone tell us what that looks like?
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Things seem back to normal food-wise. The usual hate on the cafeteria food (except for hamsters and chicken fingies 🤣). A few cadets who arrive after practice say they still aren't getting enough. Now that the upperclassmen can get off base, that helps. Plus they have a few other options in A-Hall. If I remember correctly, cadets do have a way to send in anonymous complaints (and compliments) to Mitches. I recommend that they do that since that changes things more quickly than going the parent route. Especially if many cadets send in the same concerns.

I sent my cadet, a care package with oatmeal, protein bars, etc. When Mitches served something considered "inedible", that was a good fallback. In fact, I did the same for my kid who went to civilian university.
 
Her congressman is John Carter who happens to be the chair of the of the Veterans Affairs subcommittee. How on earth is he not raising holy hell about this? Or Ted Cruz?
 
SpiritCommitteeLiaison said:
Mitches wasn't ready for the entire Wing to be restricted, so the upperclassmen were forced to eat at Mitches (can't go off base for food). Definitely a logistical issue that wasn't taken into consideration.
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It is still an issue. My cadet, that is an athlete, said in the last 2 weeks Mitches has run out of food by the time they made it there on 3 occasions.
 
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