USCG involved in search for missing submursible

I heard a news story that the U.S. Navy was going to "send a nuclear submarine" there, but I'm pretty sure we don't want anyone to know how deep our subs can go, but it sure isn't 13,000 feet. :p

The Navy does have CURV-21 (an un-crewed remotely piloted vehicle) which can lift up to 4,000 pounds from a depth of 20,000 feet, so I would assume that is what they were talking about.
 
Retired Navy Captain Brad McDonald was just interviewed. He remarked that the US Navy Sub sonar systems aren't designed to look for things on the seafloor, and even if the sub were located, it wasn't going to be the US Navy doing a potential rescue. He was fairly pragmatic and pretty much said these things don't typically end well.

He said they had some type of ROV that was designed to recover crew from shallow depths when a sub failed. He said the running joke amongst sub-crews was the devices were built for politicians and moms.

I feel bad for the families and loved ones and hope everyone involved in the search remains safe.
 
"The US Coast Guard estimated the sub had between 70 and 96 hours of emergency oxygen, as of 17:00 EST (22:00 BST) on Monday", so that makes for little to no hope for the souls aboard the Titan by this Thursday 6/12/2023 at around 5PM (72 hours later) or by the latest, sometime on Friday the 13th.

Today is only Tuesday though, so miracles could still happen. If the crew compartment isn't compromised, they can very well still be alive.
What gets me is that even if they were bobbing on the surface somewhere miles away without a working EPIRB, they still can't open the hatch from the inside. That sounds insane to me. One would think that explosive bolts would be a good thing to have on that hatch. Heck, we put them on spacecraft doors and that's about the same thing we're dealing with here, right? The environment in space and 13,000 feet underwater are pretty much the same in the danger category, I would think.
 
THParent said:
"The US Coast Guard estimated the sub had between 70 and 96 hours of emergency oxygen, as of 17:00 EST (22:00 BST) on Monday", so that makes for little to no hope for the souls aboard the Titan by this Thursday 6/12/2023 at around 5PM (72 hours later) or by the latest, sometime on Friday the 13th.

Today is only Tuesday though, so miracles could still happen. If the crew compartment isn't compromised, they can very well still be alive.
What gets me is that even if they were bobbing on the surface somewhere miles away without a working EPIRB, they still can't open the hatch from the inside. That sounds insane to me. One would think that explosive bolts would be a good thing to have on that hatch. Heck, we put them on spacecraft doors and that's about the same thing we're dealing with here, right? The environment in space and 13,000 feet underwater are pretty much the same in the danger category, I would think.
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Totally agree with the explosive hatch component. If the Titan's hull is intact, the crew would really have to have nerves of steel to slow the intake of oxygen and production of carbon monoxide. All of the projections involve pretty ideal conditions. Being locked in a tube with no battery, heat, or communication could cause distress, which would contribute to shorter expectations of emergency oxygen.

I just finished reading The Right Stuff, an excellent read. The 'exploding hatch' that Gus Grissom was falsely accused of opening (later evidence pointed out he had no bruising on his hand, which Wally Schirra had bone bruises from his opening the hatch in a later mission, and decades later review of film leads experts to believe static electricity triggered the hatch, not Gus), ironically and tragically an exploding hatch that was far too complex to operate likely contributed to Gus and two other astronaut's deaths in the Apollo fire.

My guess, is they don't arm them with exploding hatches out of an abundance of caution for them being opened at depth. But you would think there could be atmospheric pressure sensors that could trigger an opening when on the surface. However, if the seas were really rough, bobbing with it closed is far safer than opening it, which is how Gus almost drowned in his capsule when heavy seas began filling and eventually sinking the capsule.

I love watching Discovery documentaries about the deep sea, but no amount of money could pay me to go down to those depths. It's a sad situation.
 
THParent said:
"The US Coast Guard estimated the sub had between 70 and 96 hours of emergency oxygen, as of 17:00 EST (22:00 BST) on Monday", so that makes for little to no hope for the souls aboard the Titan by this Thursday 6/12/2023 at around 5PM (72 hours later) or by the latest, sometime on Friday the 13th.

Today is only Tuesday though, so miracles could still happen. If the crew compartment isn't compromised, they can very well still be alive.
What gets me is that even if they were bobbing on the surface somewhere miles away without a working EPIRB, they still can't open the hatch from the inside. That sounds insane to me. One would think that explosive bolts would be a good thing to have on that hatch. Heck, we put them on spacecraft doors and that's about the same thing we're dealing with here, right? The environment in space and 13,000 feet underwater are pretty much the same in the danger category, I would think.
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Likely the designers/engineers decided that the crew would never need to get out of the sub without the support boat.

Can you take explosive bolts on and off repeatedly when they are not needed? I would think the are only used where they have to be used to get the hatch off, so would be different in a reuseable sub. I don't know.
 
THParent said:
"The US Coast Guard estimated the sub had between 70 and 96 hours of emergency oxygen, as of 17:00 EST (22:00 BST) on Monday", so that makes for little to no hope for the souls aboard the Titan by this Thursday 6/12/2023 at around 5PM (72 hours later) or by the latest, sometime on Friday the 13th.

Today is only Tuesday though, so miracles could still happen. If the crew compartment isn't compromised, they can very well still be alive.
What gets me is that even if they were bobbing on the surface somewhere miles away without a working EPIRB, they still can't open the hatch from the inside. That sounds insane to me. One would think that explosive bolts would be a good thing to have on that hatch. Heck, we put them on spacecraft doors and that's about the same thing we're dealing with here, right? The environment in space and 13,000 feet underwater are pretty much the same in the danger category, I would think.
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Yes at this point it’s very hopeful. At least the oxygen levels.

I can’t imagine how scary this is for them.

Praying it turns out to be a fantastic story that they have to share.
 
THParent said:
I heard a news story that the U.S. Navy was going to "send a nuclear submarine" there, but I'm pretty sure we don't want anyone to know how deep our subs can go, but it sure isn't 13,000 feet. :p

The Navy does have CURV-21 (an un-crewed remotely piloted vehicle) which can lift up to 4,000 pounds from a depth of 20,000 feet, so I would assume that is what they were talking about.
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Since the Titan weighs 21,000 pounds, that vehicle would not do the job. It might, however, be able to facilitate the attachment of a cable.

THParent said:
"The US Coast Guard estimated the sub had between 70 and 96 hours of emergency oxygen, as of 17:00 EST (22:00 BST) on Monday", so that makes for little to no hope for the souls aboard the Titan by this Thursday 6/12/2023 at around 5PM (72 hours later) or by the latest, sometime on Friday the 13th.

Today is only Tuesday though, so miracles could still happen. If the crew compartment isn't compromised, they can very well still be alive.
What gets me is that even if they were bobbing on the surface somewhere miles away without a working EPIRB, they still can't open the hatch from the inside. That sounds insane to me. One would think that explosive bolts would be a good thing to have on that hatch. Heck, we put them on spacecraft doors and that's about the same thing we're dealing with here, right? The environment in space and 13,000 feet underwater are pretty much the same in the danger category, I would think.
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Pressure inside space capsule = 14.7 psia
Pressure outside submersible at 12,000 feet depth = 5,585 psia

Submersibles have to be quite a bit more robust than a space vehicle.
 
Yes. Of Course. Both environments are completely inhospitable to human life, is what I was getting at.
You go outside and you die. You let the outside inside, and you die.

At least in space, you can wear a space suit for a limited amount of time and live. Even a ADS 2000 suit will only get you down to 2,300 feet or so.
 
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Interesting news this morning! USCG confirming tapping type noises, every 30 mins, through the night. Which puts the search area to a size of the state of Maryland.
 
I heard that as well. I'll bet someone on board wishes they knew Morse code.
If they don't have any remotely piloted vehicles capable of hauling this thing to the surface, what good will it do to find them?

Find them, go up to surface, grab a cable and go back down to attach the cable? A single cable could haul up a 21,000 pound submersible, so I guess it's doable.

2-1/2 miles of say, 5/8" dia. 304 stainless steel wire rope probably takes up a lot of space on a ship, aside from costing $100,000.00 and weighing 11,000 pounds all by itself. The logistics of it all are sort of mind-boggling.
 
If they locate them and manage to get them to the surface? That would be so incredible.
 
It seems like the logistics are what’s prohibitive to a successful rescue. Beyond actually finding them.

I heard a passing reference to a “necklace” that erodes with time in the salt water that would bouy them up but I’ve been unable to put that in context of this. I haven’t heard anymore about it

I’m flabbergasted that there aren’t emergency locators on board. So many oversights that seem basic. And at least one crew member is a seasoned explorer. I would think he would prudently look for these safety backups.
 
No one is really discussing implosion, in which case there would likely be very little to find. As an aside, I find it hard to believe there is no mechanism for the people in the sub to extricate themselves -- that they're locked inside. That doesn't seem wise.
 
I saw a interesting article about how the sub could have been blown into the wreck by a currents, bad navigation, etc. Or atleast it a situation where if something was over them and they are stuck, then any emergency buoys might be stuck also. It's just a theory. Not sure how a locator would work over miles under the ocean. This could be the same as explosive bolts for the hatch. Seems like a good idea, but not sure it works going that deep underwater.
 
usna1985 said:
No one is really discussing implosion, in which case there would likely be very little to find. As an aside, I find it hard to believe there is no mechanism for the people in the sub to extricate themselves -- that they're locked inside. That doesn't seem wise.
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5600 psi is a incredible amount of pressure. The ability for the crew to get out without external help is low on the list of priorities compared to keeping from imploding from a latch on a door.

Navy Divers can't really put deep sea suits on or off without assistance, and they aren't going half the depths that this thing does.
 
Are there no regulations for sea exploration? Or space, for that matter? I’m completely ignorant in all of this. I guess it’s like climbing Mt Everest. You are taking your own risks.

But this rescue effort is costly and also potentially lives at risk.

It’s all fascinating to me. The many layers.
 
justdoit19 said:
Are there no regulations for sea exploration? Or space, for that matter? I’m completely ignorant in all of this. I guess it’s like climbing Mt Everest. You are taking your own risks.

But this rescue effort is costly and also potentially lives at risk.

It’s all fascinating to me. The many layers.
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I sure, or atleast hope, people that go down this deep understand that rescue is almost impossible. Just like in space. I also find it fascinating the logistics of just going down this deep. Let alone trying to find and rescue someone.

I think alot of the rescue and search work is being done with remote control vehicles, so that will help with reducing the lives at risk.
 
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