It gets even crazier when you factor in States who allow Career or University "Tracks". My DD is on a University Science "track". Once she choose that track, she could not change her mind and return to regular classes. Her "track" classes required enrollment at three different schools. When she was sick, I had to call all three each time. LOL. Somehow, they were able to figure out how to take grades from three different schools with three different programs and three different grading standards AND get them systematically onto a transcript. It was insanely confusing.
USCGA Class of 2024 Rejection Thread
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A1Janitor
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During my son’s senior year, a girl transferred from Florida and threatened to take over the salutatorian position because her average placed her at 2.
She took a Calc class and failed her first test. Dropped out. Subsequently they placed her at like 13.
If you accept another schools system ... or use your system and apply it to this new student - it is possible you get improper results.
The conversations here about inflated GPAs is exactly why standardized testing is needed. Don't get conned into thinking that it is not by some of the more progressive politicians who want to dummy the entire system down. Like it or not, standardize tests are the way to go. This coming from a dad who did not particularly do well with them and the same dad who has two sons who struggled with them as well. One ended up getting a 33 on his ACT but worked his butt off trying (and yes, he had to superscore) and another son who did not quite reach his older brother's ACT but also worked his butt off getting the best score possible. With a good tutor and having the discipline to work on standardized test anxiety, solid scores can be earned. As for AP classes, I am not a fan. We learned the hard way with our first son, and our second son simply took honors classes and got the same bump in GPA.
TexasAggie204
DS USMA 2024
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Actually, no. First, to be clear, I'm an Aggie, but I no longer reside in Texas.
My example is from my son's HS in PA. Also, a "C" in an AP or Honors class in his HS gets you the standard 2 quality points. You only get the "bump" in QP's for an A or a B in an AP class (adding further to the confusion).
However, as for the value of AP classes, my son has been communicating with a current USMA Plebe from a neighboring (and academically comparable) HS. He has told my son that it is a HUGE advantage to have taken AP Calc, AP Physics, AP Composition, AP History, etc. in HS as these are IDENTICAL to the classes he will have his Plebe year at West Point. The kid I'm referring to is a very busy varsity athlete and posted a 3.5 first semester. He also told my son that a lot of his teammates that did not take AP classes in HS were really struggling with Plebe year academics. Again, this is what my son has communicated to me firsthand from a current USMA Plebe, so no need to argue the point with me. I'm just reiterating what I have been told by my kid. Honestly, after the Plebe told him this, it looked like a huge weight had been lifted off of my son - I think he had been overly concerned about the academic rigor for Plebes at West Point. Now he's only 95% nervous!!!
Flyarmy92
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I agree. AP classes do prepare you better the majority of college life. If anything to have at least an AP Eng Comp/Lit class. Knowing how to write those entrance essays is key!
The bump is the same for AP and Honors courses at many schools. The AP is not worth the trouble IMHO, and honors pulls plenty of weight with the GPA and overall credentials.
TexasAggie204
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Yes, Honors classes are fine too. In our HS, the "bump" for an A in an Honors class is 5 quality points (as compared to 5.5 for AP), but certainly adds plenty of weight to the overall credentials. From what I can remember, there are also a lot more Honors classes to choose from.
StatDaddy505
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I'm not knocking AP classes or their value is preparing kids for SA life. They are absolutely necessary. I'm just saying all school districts need the same scale. Otherwise, it muddies the waters. Jeepman is right. Standardized testing is needed for this very reason. A 4.0 in Math in a weak school and a 4.0 in Math in a competitive school can only be resolved when you look at the 2 candidates' standardized Math scores. If grading scales are not universal there's really no balance to the overall system.
Good luck to all of our children. This is a trying and anxious time for all of us.
TexasAggie204
DS USMA 2024
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I don't disagree with you, but it would seem that changing all HS's to one universal scale is unlikely. Also, if you take a look at the increase in homeschooling, how are SA's going to account for that? I will admit that I am 100% unfamiliar with homeschooling, but do parents actually assign letter grades to their own kids? If so, how can these be interpreted and compared to a kid coming out of a public or private HS?
All of these questions point to the importance of a candidates SAT/ACT score. While those systems are certainly not perfect, at least the test content, etc. is consistent across the entire country. Our USMA AO basically told us that standardized test scores were the most important % factor in your kid getting an appointment and other factors such as class rank and GPA were diminishing in importance.
AllSmiles
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Geez! We are in PA too but our weighted scale for AP is 4.25 vs a 4.0 for an "A" in CP or Honors. So it's basically impossible to get above a 4.2 in our school. We do think that the AP classes were worth it. Most of the civilian colleges we explored pretty much told us that AP Physics and AP Calc would be required for entrance into their engineering programs plus scores of 4 or 5 on the AP tests.
CGA applicant 2024
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I am a homeschooler, and it largely varies with the student. I took most of my classes in early high school at a co-op. About 10 families where kids were taught by different parents, and given grades based on test and homework completion. Grades were not just handed out. Junior and Senior year many classes through dual enrollment at local community college.
On the other hand, I know other families where they do very little school and their parents hand out A's on their kids transcripts. Drives me crazy since that puts a bad look on those who actually have to work hard for a good transcript. Ultimately these kids will have a hard time in the real world.
My admissions officer informed me that homeschoolers will be graded based on classes outside of the home (such as AP or dual enrolled), but the main consideration will be ACT / SAT scores since they are objective. So you are correct about the importance of standardized tests.
TexasAggie204
DS USMA 2024
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I would give my DS a failing grade in all his classes based upon penmanship alone...
mamabear2023
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Regarding weighted GPAs, remember that high schools send profile reports to admissions officers describing their schools -- the challenges, the student body makeup, special programs, AP classes offered, etc., so that admissions officers know what they're dealing with. Taking AP and honors (or not) will show up on your transcript, and admissions officers notice when you take the most challenging courses. They'll see your SAT/ACT score, but also will understand more holistically the environment that educated you.
As for standardized testing, my thinking on this is evolving, understanding firsthand the advantages that certain students have over others. An earlier poster mentioned that "with a good tutor" anyone can do well. That's likely true. And good tutors cost money -- in my community several hundred dollars an hour. Students who struggle with food security, which also is a thing in my community, aren't focusing on tutors. And as a poster hinted, those tutors really are about teaching how to *take* the test rather than how to improve your knowledge that is tested.
I've become fascinated about college admissions in the past year, as my DS has gone through the college application process from a high school that is both considered one of the top public schools in the country and also has a relatively high FARMS rate. The disparities are real; his counselor juggles hundreds of students, and the kids without the resources or wherewithal to understand the admissions process are at significant disadvantages. Families with resources, however, often spend thousands of dollars for private college counselors and SAT tutors.
There's a book I'm reading that I've thought parents on this forum would find interesting, so I'll suggest it here: "The Years That Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us," by Paul Tough. It doesn't mention service academies (so far), but there is fascinating research and heartbreaking descriptions of the differences in how various schools approach admissions, which students succeed and how, for example, a single college professor can infuse confidence and success by showing struggling students how they can thrive. Some schools have made a real effort to bridge the gaps; I'd count the Coast Guard Academy among them.
As some have noted, the CGA used to tell incoming cadets their likelihood of failure; now the academy tells them, "You're here for a reason. You'll succeed with hard work, and we'll help you do it." So whether your SAT was 1100 or 1500, you'll come out with the same degree. I'd suggest that a lot of those lower-SAT score kids might do better overall, because in many cases they busted their asses in life and understand what hard work is all about.
As for standardized testing, my thinking on this is evolving, understanding firsthand the advantages that certain students have over others. An earlier poster mentioned that "with a good tutor" anyone can do well. That's likely true. And good tutors cost money -- in my community several hundred dollars an hour. Students who struggle with food security, which also is a thing in my community, aren't focusing on tutors. And as a poster hinted, those tutors really are about teaching how to *take* the test rather than how to improve your knowledge that is tested.
I've become fascinated about college admissions in the past year, as my DS has gone through the college application process from a high school that is both considered one of the top public schools in the country and also has a relatively high FARMS rate. The disparities are real; his counselor juggles hundreds of students, and the kids without the resources or wherewithal to understand the admissions process are at significant disadvantages. Families with resources, however, often spend thousands of dollars for private college counselors and SAT tutors.
There's a book I'm reading that I've thought parents on this forum would find interesting, so I'll suggest it here: "The Years That Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us," by Paul Tough. It doesn't mention service academies (so far), but there is fascinating research and heartbreaking descriptions of the differences in how various schools approach admissions, which students succeed and how, for example, a single college professor can infuse confidence and success by showing struggling students how they can thrive. Some schools have made a real effort to bridge the gaps; I'd count the Coast Guard Academy among them.
As some have noted, the CGA used to tell incoming cadets their likelihood of failure; now the academy tells them, "You're here for a reason. You'll succeed with hard work, and we'll help you do it." So whether your SAT was 1100 or 1500, you'll come out with the same degree. I'd suggest that a lot of those lower-SAT score kids might do better overall, because in many cases they busted their asses in life and understand what hard work is all about.
How were u notified about the rejection?
On December 20 (I think it was), all EA applicants who had not already been notified of an acceptance (see the Appointment thread for those details) were given a decision letter via Bears Den.
wah, wah, wah, my little angel didn't get accepted to a good school; this is almost as stupid a post as those 'what are my chances' threads. Just how many applicants do you think have your kids credentials? Its a highly competitive school in a highly competitive world so get over it, switch to plan B and move on.
Do not agree. Look, this forum is about support, support, support. Rejection sucks, and if a member of this forum needs support with processing that, then he/she should feel welcome to do that here. If there is a group of people that understands the emotional toll this arduous process takes on a family, it's this group.
sanman
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I think the issue was that AppDad wasn’t looking for support. Look at his posts on the acceptance thread and the under current was ‘my kid is better than your kid’. I think many of us thought he was gathering the data to raise some kind of complaint against the academy for not accepting his son. Many of us advised him that his son should reach out his AO to obtain feedback and hopefully that has now been done. I think we are all willing to give sympathy but when initial posts are full of sour grapes and insinuations that accepted candidates are less worthy than his own son then that tends not to help. Remember that he started this discussion on a thread that is used to celebrate successful applicants!
Bash On
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Agree with all your points, and add that raw stats are not very useful anyway when they are only part of the whole candidate picture. In fact, I feel like over-reliance on stats can potentially give false hope to candidates that look good on paper or unnecessarily discourage potential candidates who may have compelling attributes that aren't reflected in pure numbers. [Edit: Probably a moot topic anyway, as it looks like AppDad hasn't been on the forum for a couple months.]
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@sanman Yes, I definitely see your point! Thank you for responding. I guess we won't know what the OP's intentions were, but my impression was that it was someone having a hard time coming to terms with the "no," and the "information gathering" post was done out of frustration, anger, and disappointment.
I will admit that I felt for AppDad because as much as we are all warned to: "assume it's a no, unless you hear a yes" it is pretty tough to do, and many of us end up doing the exact opposite.
Just wasn't crazy about the "wah, wah" post...how does this help our forum? That kind of judgment just discourages members from posting and contributing.