USMAPS, USNA or ROTC scholarship?

Armydude - welcome back.

Have you spoken with your Regional Commander yet? Did you send in your Eagle to admissions and let them know?
 
Yes I have notified him that I finished my eagle and have been in contact with him.
 
ARMYDUDE2012, when my daughter received her appointment from USNA it was in a thick USPS priority mail envelope (delivered by regular mail) and contained a padded folder with her certificate and paperwork. So.....when she received an exact same package from USMA she (we) thought it was the same. We were a little let down. USMA sent the prep school offer in the exact same way, padded folder and all, so initially we thought it was "THE" offer.

On a side note, yesterday my daughter received her "thank you, but no thank you" from USAFA. She told me to open the single envelope and that was the end of that. Even though this was never her first choice, rejections are hard to take. It makes you feel as if there is something wrong with yourself. However, chin up! You are all fantastic to have even gotten to the points where you are now. You are NOT the ordinary high school kid!:thumb:
 
You did let them know you finished Eagle, right? That is huge, so I would bet that you hear soon!
 
Armydude2012:

I hear you can be accepted as late as may or june so don't be hard on yourself. People who have already been offered admission have until May 1st to accept or not. You may be placed on the National Waiting List or given a chance at prep.But beware of the white envelopes! that means rejection.
 
However, after today she kind of felt like there wasn't as much respect between the cadet candidates and their instuctors as there is in a regular academy class.

Well, I'm not sure why she would think that, but I would caution not to base decisions of this magnitude on feelings like that. Way back when Noah was still a Midshipman and I was at NAPS, we were treated as adults and Midshipman Candidates. While at USNA, we were (mostly) treated as adults and Midshipmen. There wasn't much difference.

Can you offer us any examples of what made her think this? I'd be very interested to hear them. :confused:

Also, she said it felt like going to another year of high school and it didn't turn out like what she was expecting.

It isn't high school, but it isn't a Service Academy, either. At least USMAPS sits on the grounds of the parent Academy (right?). NAPS sits on an isolated corner of NETC in Newport, RI.

I think she will feel like she wasn't good enough all year if she takes the USMAPS offer and always wonder if it was the best choice.

Wasn't good enough? Do you two have ANY idea how many applicants would kill to be in your shoes? She's PLENTY good enough or she wouldn't be having these options offered to her!

Now look, I may play Mr. Gung-Ho Navy around here, but there is no way that I ever besmirch the honorable reputation and status of another Service Academy. If your daughter has her heart set on the Army, then she would be foolish to pass up USMAPS because of some misguided sense of how much the instructors "respect" her. That is a DUMB yardstick with which to measure a decision that will affect the rest of her life!

I strongly urge you to sit down with her and seriously figure this out. She is obviously bright enough to have achieved what she has. It would be a shame if she later regretted a decision made for all the wrong reasons.
 
Armydude2012:

I hear you can be accepted as late as may or june so don't be hard on yourself. People who have already been offered admission have until May 1st to accept or not. You may be placed on the National Waiting List or given a chance at prep.But beware of the white envelopes! that means rejection.

FYI, the prep school offer that my daughter has requires a response by April 19th. It indicates that it will be offered to another candidate if she does not accept it. So, maybe you will start seeing more prep school mail about a week or so after that date? IDK.
 
Yeah, after april 19th look for prep offers and after may 1st look for usma offers.
 
Zaphod:
Thank you for that response. That was so well-written; I hope everyone who is considering prep vs. giving up the dream will read your response. I expected a "go navy" response; not the excellent, unbiased response. Hurray for you!

One of my son's best friends was offered AOG; he is very bright (got into GA tech) but will go to MMI to chase his USMA dream. Did he plan on 5 years in college? Not really....but what is one year, compared to the chance of a lifetime?

Who knows what was going on the day oneandfive's D was at USMAPS...could be something was "in the air" she wasn't aware of....the visit to the prep school should not sway the dream; she should base decision on what she wants a year from now: USMA or USNA. Do you have any idea how many people are entering USMA after more than a year out of high school? That would be 30%!! Some went USMAPS, some AOG, some just try and try, and some are from prior enlisted. Your daughter has a fabulous opportunity. I think she needs to search her heart, and lay her ego down...USMAPS is a HUGE accomplishment...she is not settling on anything...she should be extremely proud, and so should you.
 
Well, I'm not sure why she would think that, but I would caution not to base decisions of this magnitude on feelings like that. Way back when Noah was still a Midshipman and I was at NAPS, we were treated as adults and Midshipman Candidates. While at USNA, we were (mostly) treated as adults and Midshipmen. There wasn't much difference.

Can you offer us any examples of what made her think this? I'd be very interested to hear them. :confused:



It isn't high school, but it isn't a Service Academy, either. At least USMAPS sits on the grounds of the parent Academy (right?). NAPS sits on an isolated corner of NETC in Newport, RI.



Wasn't good enough? Do you two have ANY idea how many applicants would kill to be in your shoes? She's PLENTY good enough or she wouldn't be having these options offered to her!

Now look, I may play Mr. Gung-Ho Navy around here, but there is no way that I ever besmirch the honorable reputation and status of another Service Academy. If your daughter has her heart set on the Army, then she would be foolish to pass up USMAPS because of some misguided sense of how much the instructors "respect" her. That is a DUMB yardstick with which to measure a decision that will affect the rest of her life!

I strongly urge you to sit down with her and seriously figure this out. She is obviously bright enough to have achieved what she has. It would be a shame if she later regretted a decision made for all the wrong reasons.

I just sent a reply to this a minute ago, but it didn't show up so I'm not sure what I did wrong. I'll try again and if it turns up somewhere strange, sorry.

First, my daughter has had the opportunity to attend classes at both USNA and USMA on official college visits. This week, she's been able to go to USMAPS classes as well. She just feels that the level of instruction (difficulty) isn't the same and that the cadet candidates don't respect the instructors the way she thinks they should, it's not about them respecting her. She really loved the academy classes and the SS's because "she was with kids that were just like her and wanted the same things she does". She felt like some of the "prepsters" didn't have the same level of dedication. This is a kid who can't wait to graduate because she is so tired of being with students who don't care, don't try, and mock those who do. We come from a HS that is very integrated and it is not the average suburb school.

In no way do I mean to lump all "prepsters" into this idea, but I am just expressing what she has said bothered her. She wants to excell, be challenged and be around those who want the same things.

I know she is very blessed to have the options she does but I'm sure you all can identify with the let down of something you have worked so hard for, for so long. It is just not the result she dreamed of all those years.
 
Zaphod - you are making sense today!

My two cents - from just a Mom who has been involved in this for three years - since my daughter was invited to attend an admissions information session in 10th grade. My comments below are strictly from my USMA admissions experience but most can probably be extrapolated from other academies:

USMA is a military school. Military schools are like no other school. You not only have very difficult and challenging academics but you also have military training, athletics and duties. Every minute for a plebe is accounted for. If you have 4 hours of homework then you will get 2 hours to do it. This is NOT an exaggeration. You will have mandatory class, mandatory formation, mandatory study time, mandatory athletics, mandatory drill and mandatory fun.

USMA looks at a candidates entire application package and makes a judgment as to whether or not the candidate will succeed at the academy. Academics are difficult to be sure and they will not admit anyone without the ABILITY to succeed.

Math and USMA (probably holds for USNA and USAFA as well) - there is a REQUIRED math curriculum for all cadets. Regardless of major. You need to take not only Calculus I but Calc II and Differential Eq. These courses are challenging by themselves and build off each other. It is impossible to do well in Calc II without a mastery of Calc I.
Sometime during Beast when you are exhausted, mentally and physically, you will be given a Math assessment test - through trig and pre-calc. You will take this test without a caluclator. The results will place you in the proper math class.

Prep school offers:
Getting an offer to Prep school or another academy prep program means the academy WANTS you. They want to admit you but there is "something" that needs to be addressed before they are convinced that you will succeed. Normally this is academics - either a "weakness in Math or English" and I use the term weakness loosely. Very loosely

The only goal of prep school is to gain an appointment at USMA. The instructors are charged with that task. If there is an appearance that they are "hard on a cadet" or "not respectful" of a cadet, it is probably because they are continuing to push that cadet academically.

While prep school may seem like another year of high school - much more is learned. If you are at USMAPS or a military jr college, you also will learn to wear a uniform and the responsibility that goes with it. You will learn to drill and learn military skills. Add all of this with courses that "seem like" high school and the difficulty is expanded. exponentially. I have not heard of many cadets who sail through prep school. They work and work hard.

USMAPS (or civil prep) to USMA - those cadets who went to prep have a year bonuse on hs plebes. They are all plebes but - they have the extra knowledge and experience of working through the chain of command, military skills, study skills and time managment.
Many kids are offended by the offer of prep school. Mine included. This for many is the first military lesson - accept the mission. I have yet to hear a cadet say that a year of prep was a waste of time.
For many kids it is frustrating to be accepted to one academy only to be offered prep at another - this is actually quite common. Many kids do turn down appointments to accept prep offers at other academies. Many - perhaps MOST Prep kids turn down 4 year ARTOC scholarships to attend a prep program - mine did.

All of that said - ONLY accept a Prep offer if attending the academy is what you really, really want. If you are on the fence and have a choice between prep and rotc then take ROTC - IMO.

Take no offense at being offered prep - this is NOT an insult. It is a compliment.
 
I know she is very blessed to have the options she does but I'm sure you all can identify with the let down of something you have worked so hard for, for so long. It is just not the result she dreamed of all those years.

I understand what you are saying here. My son also felt a let down when offered civil prep. It was not the outcome he was hoping for. In the end he wanted USMA more than he wanted to not do that extra year of school.

Even though the prep school is not what she was hoping for she can make the best of it. She will get used to wearing the uniform, living in a military environment, make friends who will last a lifetime and she will even get small paycheck. It all comes down to how much your daughter is locked into wanting Army. Some people are happy just serving and it doesn’t matter to them which service they are in, others only want to do one thing. If she chooses Navy, can she be happy with the options for her military career?

Zaphod – USMAPS is still at Ft. Monmouth, NJ but I think they are planning to move it to West Point sometime in the near future.
 
I think too, that it needs to be carefully considered if there is any academic weakness that needs to be given full attention through that prep school program. By this I mean that you can be the most stellar kid in your high school but lack a little bitty something that the academies would rather see you have or do better in. They already know that the kids are A+ extremely bright individuals or they wouldn't offer up options. They also know that stellar students WILL struggle when they get to an academy. During Plebe year, trying to maintain C's will be difficult. I personally know a kid who had a 5.0 his senior year in high school, graduated with honors, yada, yada, yada, gets to his academy & about half way through says, "I want to give back my appointment and I need them to send me to Prep. I can't cut it here. Will they do that?". He's fine now but will tell you honestly that he would have been better off with that year of prep in his case. Some will say that the kids having the year of prep end up to be the ones with a better chance of not getting booted later down the road due to academics. You only get one chance to do this thing right. Consider ALL options very carefully and put into the equation about what the true goal is five years from now. Imagine how tough it is to think of all the variables for a kid of 17 - 19 when they and/or their parents don't truly comprehend what service academy life is as they haven't experienced ANYTHING close to it. It ain't no cake walk, as they say. Use any opportunity given if you plan on succeeding. Its a rare honor for a prep school offer & even kids at academies sometimes wish they had been offered it. :smile:
 
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She just feels that the level of instruction (difficulty) isn't the same and that the cadet candidates don't respect the instructors the way she thinks they should, it's not about them respecting her.

Well, it ISN'T the same level of instruction. One is a prep school and the other is a Service Academy. There's a difference.

She really loved the academy classes and the SS's because "she was with kids that were just like her and wanted the same things she does". She felt like some of the "prepsters" didn't have the same level of dedication.

Yet, they are willing to wait an additional year and go through the hassles of USMAPS in order to become USMA graduates. Doesn't that sound like dedication? It certainly does to me!

This is a kid who can't wait to graduate because she is so tired of being with students who don't care, don't try, and mock those who do.

Believe me, I can empathize. My school WAS a suburban private school (somewhat exclusive, but not too much), and I had to put up with a bunch of yahoos saying that all I wanted to do was kill babies.

She wants to excell, be challenged and be around those who want the same things.

She will be, whether at USMAPS, USNA, or USMA. Those who aren't either don't get in or don't last long.

I know she is very blessed to have the options she does but I'm sure you all can identify with the let down of something you have worked so hard for, for so long. It is just not the result she dreamed of all those years.

I warn her that being on the inside isn't always what it looks like while peeking in from the outside.

She will run into plenty of people she will consider less than stellar. Some evolutions will be so mind-bendingly stupid that she will wonder how we ever managed to actually win a war. I've often said that the USNA Catalog is the single best piece of spin and propaganda ever published in the free world. For better or worse, there it is...

As for feeling the pain of a letdown, ask me how it felt to finally become a Naval Officer after all those years (I wanted to be one since I was 4), and then discover that "it is just not the result she dreamed of all those years".

As a mild Trekkie, I have often quoted the famous line from Spock: "It is not always better to have than to want. It is illogical, but it is often true."

Your daughter needs to determine what she wants to do for a career. Army or Navy? Once THAT decision is made, she needs to follow the path to the goal. If that means taking the long way around via USMAPS, then so be it. If she wants the goal bad enough, she'll crawl through hell to get there.

I did, as have thousands of others.
 
Zaphod:
Thank you for that response. That was so well-written; I hope everyone who is considering prep vs. giving up the dream will read your response. I expected a "go navy" response; not the excellent, unbiased response. Hurray for you!

You're too kind. :redface:

Oh, BTW......

GO NAVY!

Gotta maintain SOME reason around here! :biggrin::biggrin::thumb::thumb:
 
I am thankful to all of you and your messages, but right now I feel like an outcast! Please don't think we are ungrateful idiots. One of the things she heard was "2.0 good to go". That is settling for mediocrity and something that doesn't appeal to her. I guess all of this discussion is pointless. I can see that the majority of you think she should suck it up and go for it even though it wasn't her ideal situation. She wants nothing more than to work her but off and become a soldier.

On a side note, she has been in JROTC for four years, worn a uniform several times a week for those years, understands ranks, chain of command and what is expected. She has won area awards for IDD, orienteering, gone to national JROTC symposiums, qualified for the National Junior Olympics two years in a row in marksmanship and the biggest honor this year was receiving the Army JROTC Legion of award this year (25 this year nationwide). She lives off of this stuff! I in no way am saying that JROTC is the same as an academy because it is not. I also know that this is something you don't announce at an academy because the majority of people think it is a dumb program. For us it has been fantastic. We have two of the best instructors who have worked hard to teach real skills, help kids excell and make them better citizens. It wasn't some watered down program. She's ready for the next level. That's all.
 
In the end he wanted USMA more than he wanted to not do that extra year of school.

Let's hear it for the Prepsters!

WOOT!

:groupwave::bounce1:

In my case, I was so shocked to have gotten NAPS that I didn't hesitate or regret it for a single second. I still don't.

Zaphod – USMAPS is still at Ft. Monmouth, NJ but I think they are planning to move it to West Point sometime in the near future.

Ah! Thank you, madam, for that correction. :redface:
 
This is awesome conversation you guys. And oneandfive, no need for her to worry that she won't be challenged with any of her great great choices she's been offered. :biggrin: Seriously, good luck to her and enjoy what time you have with her while she's still hanging around with ya. Congrats!! Don't feel you're an outcast!

Add: Its not that the 2.0 & go means the kids just "get by". It means that some kids work their tails off to get a D. I laughed when I first heard, "D is done" at our academy. I laugh no more. I get it now. Mine was NJROTC for four years as well. It was THE best experience.
 
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One of the things she heard was "2.0 good to go". That is settling for mediocrity and something that doesn't appeal to her. I guess all of this discussion is pointless. I can see that the majority of you think she should suck it up and go for it even though it wasn't her ideal situation. She wants nothing more than to work her but off and become a soldier.

Keep in mind - USMAPS is not just comprised of high schools students. There are a number of soldiers who have been out of high school for a couple of years. There also will undoubtedly be some who are combat veterans. When she meets these Cadet Candidates she will be in awe.
These soldiers who have been away from academics need to adjust. For them the 2.0 will not always be easy - not because of a lack of intelligence.

I had pretty much figured your daughter was in a great JROTC program in high school - kudos to them! Has she ever stood for a Saturday AM Inspection of her room?
Ahhhhhh - have no fear! She will still have much to learn.
I think it was last year that the First Captain at West Point was a USMAPS grad.
 
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