"whole person" concept

[navy_clarinet_mom]

If your taking a a few AP classes I would say a 2.8 If not then a 3.4

If you have a 3.4 1800+ SATs then you'll probably be going to the academy, if you dont have a nomination you'll be going to NAPS.

My best friend only had a 1560 but was taking AP classes and had a 2.8 gpa. He's at NAPS right now.

If your in a JROTC program I think it helps too.

But the point is its all about grades or sports. If you dont get in which im sure you will, You can spend an extra year at one of the Five Military Jr Colleges.

Two points stick out in the above that need addressing.
1. Lack of a nomination will not get you automatically to NAPS. If you are "scholastically qualified" then you are not eligible for NAPS. NAPS was originally designed to assist Midshipman Candidates scholastically to be better prepared for USNA. Read their mission statement. "The mission of the Naval Academy Preparatory School is to prepare selected candidates morally, mentally, and physically, with emphasis on strengthening the academic foundation of individual candidates for officer accession through the U.S. Naval Academy."

2. Your friend that got NAPS because of his 2.8 GPA and 1560 SAT score probably has something within his packet that the Navy saw that they wanted as a potential officer but needed scholastic strengthening. (see #1)

 

[kwill958]

I'm currently a sophomore in high school, and it was only recently that I realized how much I needed more extracurriculars. 4.0 GPA is great, but I need more to grab their attention. My plan is to join lots of clubs next year, continue doing a ton of community service, participate in a varsity sport (I plan on really getting in shape this summer so that hopefully I can letter). Hopefully I'll become part of NHS and other honors societies too. So that's the plan for how to get up to par with all the other applying students. But I think what's even more important is the things that make you stand out in the crowd. So I plan on getting in a few boxing fights this year (as a girl, this should look good), plus I've won national quilting awards (ya, I know I'm kinda all over the board).

So does that sounds like an appropriate plan? Catch up to the others, keep good grades, and then find some other things that make me stand out?...

 

[JHORNET44]

kwill958, the only thing I would recommend is not necessarily joining as many clubs as possible, but to find one(s) that you really enjoy and excel in them.




-JHORNET44

 

[Paap]

Motivation and Experience

I decided to apply to USNA this year and fortunately, I got in. I have a 3.8 GPA and a 1780 SAT with 700 math. I believe what USNA is really looking for is a strong motivation to go to the academy and a history of overcoming great obstacles. Having good academics and sports is great but when it comes down to it, motivation and experience are important.

I also got a C in one of my classes, it was Adv. English II. I don't think it was that big of a deal since I got an A in every one of my math and science classes. I'm not sure if this is possible for you, but I wish I would of taken regular English and history classes and more rigorous math and science classes.

My advice as a candidate who was accepted is to build a stong motivation to go to the academy and put yourself in tough situations to gain experience.

 

[Memphis9489]

JennyP is spot on with her reply. I exceeded every requirement ValleyForge layed out in their reply by quite a bit, and a TWE still arrived with my name on it. There is no cut-off saying "if you are this good you will get in." All you can do is your best; the rest is not up to you.

Don't forget, geography plays a role. It is harder to get in from Norfolk, VA than it is from Twin Falls, Idaho.

 

[tothetop14]

I'm betting there are a lot of kids looking into how they can move to Idaho right now.

Just kidding.

 

[brass strings]

Hey - I thought about it for at least a couple of seconds! We're from Norfolk - son's re-applying for 2015 - maybe my company would let me telecommute

 

[SCMOMof4]

USNA was my son's dream. He had a 2250 SAT (800 Math, 750 Verbal, 700 Writing), 4.5 gpa, lots of ECs, and sports. Took advantage of leadership opportunities (NOLS, Outward Bound, Lead America), but did not have "leadership positions" in school clubs (except co-captain of football team). Got the TWE anyway. Only thing we were told was that he had a weak reference from his 11th grade honors pre-calculus teacher. She did not like that he occasionally fell asleep, yet he had a 98 in the class. When we see kids getting appointments with SATs in the sub 1800 range, we realize that it was not meant to be, ever. He will not be applying again. If our kid does not pass the "whole person" concept, I'm not sure who does. They certainly do not want the brightest anymore at USNA. Son is off to plan B, a top tier college, who appreciates his intellect, physical skills, well rounded interests (guitar, master scuba diver, runs marathons, etc.). Son has gotten over the disappointment; I'm still working on that....

 

[jennyp]

SCMom: I am sorry your son received the TWE. There is no way for those of us on the outside to ever know the whole person score and exactly how it is calculated. Safe to say, though, it is not just academics and test scores. Leadership plays a big role, as do recommendations. I feel your pain, but it is not fair to those appointed and currently attending to say that "they don't want the brightest anymore!" USNA wants, needs a whole person. The whole enchilada, not just the brains.

Sometimes the "brightest" do not know how to study.....as was the case with my oldest son, who struggled a bit in college because he'd never had to expend much effort to get stellar grades. His younger brother did not have the over the top grades, but had to work harder to get better grades. Younger son is at USNA, where he expected to work hard and is, every day.

The biggest thing I see when talking to kids about attending any SA is for many of them "USNA is my dream" or "I have always wanted to go to USMA." But that is not necessarily what the SA's are looking for. They want applicants who want to be military officers and serve their country. Often evidenced by having ROTC as a back up plan.

I met a 2015 applicant and his family for supper Friday night and when asked "Why do you want to attend USNA?" he immediately said "To serve my country as a marine officer." Right answer, young man, right answer!

 

[falconchic88]

USNA was my son's dream. He had a 2250 SAT (800 Math, 750 Verbal, 700 Writing), 4.5 gpa, lots of ECs, and sports. Took advantage of leadership opportunities (NOLS, Outward Bound, Lead America), but did not have "leadership positions" in school clubs (except co-captain of football team). Got the TWE anyway. Only thing we were told was that he had a weak reference from his 11th grade honors pre-calculus teacher. She did not like that he occasionally fell asleep, yet he had a 98 in the class. When we see kids getting appointments with SATs in the sub 1800 range, we realize that it was not meant to be, ever. He will not be applying again. If our kid does not pass the "whole person" concept, I'm not sure who does. They certainly do not want the brightest anymore at USNA. Son is off to plan B, a top tier college, who appreciates his intellect, physical skills, well rounded interests (guitar, master scuba diver, runs marathons, etc.). Son has gotten over the disappointment; I'm still working on that....

This post breaks my heart. I'm sorry your son recvd the TWE, and I'm sorry for the bitterness.

I'm sorry that your son's teacher gave him a bad rec. but falling asleep in class would be a red flag to an admissions panel. They may look at it as if he can't handle the time constraints of high school, how will he handle them at USNA?

And I'm sorry that you threw the other appointees of 2014 under the bus. I don't think USNA ever claimed to simply want the "brightest" they want the brightest leaders.
Admissions knows what to look for in applications, they've got a pretty good track record of churning out military leaders.

 

[Whistle Pig]

SCMom ...not patronizing and I know my thought won't alter your disappointment and pain, but your son's TWE may have nothing to do with your son. It may be that there were simply others in this given year in your given district and/or state who were stronger. Or even more politically connected (Some refuse to buy the idea there may be occasional politics involved in this. Not John McCain ...or his son.) And the latter might include dynamics that allow for individuals w/ what many would deem "lesser" credentials in addressing "needs of the Navy." Next year ...or last year? Might have been totally different outcome.

But the point is that your son might have been fully qualified for admission but did not receive an appointment for any number of reasons having little or nothing to do with your son's fine record. NOT being appointed is NOT a reflection or indication of one's appointability. This is perhaps the most challenging notion to grasp in this process, especially in comparing it to non-SAs. There simply is little or no comparison.

The far more important point in moving forward recognizes and supports JennyP's good point: The whole point of an SA education is merely as one avenue toward identifying and preparing young men and women who have a genuine, great desire to become career officer/leaders. And if that is the case? There are many avenues open to your good son, including reapplying to USNA, if that is his greatest desire. If not, ROTC, OCS are equally viable pathways to the end goal.

Again, I or others may not be able to diminish disappointment, but hopefully offer some hopeful perspective about your son, his interests, and next steps. And ways to overcome a poor recommendation.

btw, I'm not sure I'd see this the same way, i.e. ...

I'm sorry that your son's teacher gave him a bad rec. but falling asleep in class would be a red flag to an admissions panel. They may look at it as if he can't handle the time constraints of high school, how will he handle them at USNA?

They've obviously not visited many USNA classes ...or the library. lol That may have damaged the ego of the instructor persuaded what he had to convey was more important than a few winks by an over-extended or totally bored adolescent, who could literally ...do it in (or despite) his sleep.

 

[osdad]

...but I need more to grab their attention.

I’d guess (and all any of us can do is guess) that being focused is probably better than being involved in numerous EC's. I also suspect that a history of athletics or EC involvement shows better than starting up a new one as a junior as it reflects commitment to a goal. But don't be discouraged – excel at whatever you choose and put your best out there.

 

[SCMOMof4]

Thanks for the comments. I did not intend to "throw the 2014 appointees under the bus". I know they are a great bunch kids, who deserve their appointment. My apologies, if I offended anyone. Regarding jennyp's comment, it is hard to understand why some believe (perhaps even USNA) that kids who breeze through high school don't know how to work hard. These kids are usually very engaged intellectually outside the classroom. Furthermore, they are often eager for intellectual stimulation in the classroom. My son was lucky to finally get that his senior year, and really opened up in the classroom (and didn't fall asleep), but USNA would not accept any senior year recommendations. He had some incredible recs from these teachers, and they gave a different picture to the civilian colleges to which he applied. In the end, we'll never really know why he didn't get an appointment, but our son learned a great deal from the process. We ran into his MOC (his nomination source) at an event last week and he was surprised. We just expressed our appreciation for his nomination, and accepted that there were others more competitive. Son still has a great desire to serve his country, but I'm not sure if it will be in a military capacity anymore. We have faith that all things happen for a reason. This is no exception.

 

[goldfarb1]

Positive attitude.

Regarding teacher rec's. Here's my two cents, take it for what its worth:

For those who will be applying for 2015 and beyond, make sure you pick a teacher you have a good relationship with. For example, my current english teacher and I just don't get along well. Completely different thought processes. My 10th grade english teacher and I clicked very well, and we've discussed my military plans. So I'll go for her rec. It seems really obvious but some people seem to think that all teachers love them. I have a pier who had this thought process and while speaking with a teacher regarding recommendations, this was the teachers comment. "I have 40 kids (roughly) ask me for a recommendation per year. I've never turned a kid down for a recommendation. Its part of my job. However, just because I say yes to someones recommendation does not mean its going to be gleeming with positivity. Student X didn't seem to get this. His grades were good, but his attitude towards his piers wasn't. I made sure to tell this to the schools he was applying to." Teachers are great people. Personally, I don't think I could ever do the job. Especially at the high school level. Teachers like to see people succeed. But they also pick favorites and the bad eggs. They are human, its completely natural. Make sure when looking at getting a recommendation you are socially aware enough to accept the fact that not all teachers love you.

Personally I don't think rec's have too much bearing on the app process as a whole. All teacher rec's are going to be the same thing essentially, assuming it is positive. The things that the academy is looking for are red flags IMO. For example, "works well independently, but struggles in group work" "Does not contribute to full potential during class discussions." However, if you've chosen a teacher that you have a solid relationship with, you will not get negative comments.

 

[jennyp]

SCMom: I, too, believe everything happens as it is supposed to. Not always do.

Yes, some colleges and possibly USNA do believe that kids who breeze through high school may not have adequate study skills. I think nothing ticks off a teacher more than a kid who can ace the class without much apparent effort. Oldest son had such a teacher (good thing he wasn't aiming at USNA, she was his 11th grade English teacher ) As it was she cost him finishing second in the class....he finished third. We decided it was not worth the hassle of complaining.

Anyway, my oldest lived in the honors dorm his freshman year at Texas A&M. Average SAT score (before they were doing three parts) was 1498 of this dorm's residents. All were on some pretty prestigious scholarships. When mid term grades came out that first fall semester, everyone in that dorm with a failing grade was required to go to a meeting. He called us and said "There is nobody here, they are all at that meeting!" Indeed, quite a few bright kids did not return second semester. While not all had poor study habits, some surely did. Some were likely bored, even with honors classes and could not get enough interest to study. They wound up having workshops in that dorm only about how to study! So, I think various universities have developed a valid concern.

Pig is right. Your son may well have gotten in last year or next year. There is no cookie cutter recipe that guarantees an appointment each and every year. I do think the recommendation may have been a red flag. Yes, mids sleep when ever they can! My plebe son fell asleep in a briefing just before the end of plebe summer last year and the entire company paid dearly.

So, why end the "dream?" Why not re-apply? USNA looks very favorably on those wanting to become an officer enough to re-apply.

 

[Memphis9489]

USNA was my son's dream. He had a 2250 SAT (800 Math, 750 Verbal, 700 Writing), 4.5 gpa, lots of ECs, and sports. Took advantage of leadership opportunities (NOLS, Outward Bound, Lead America), but did not have "leadership positions" in school clubs (except co-captain of football team). Got the TWE anyway. Only thing we were told was that he had a weak reference from his 11th grade honors pre-calculus teacher. She did not like that he occasionally fell asleep, yet he had a 98 in the class. When we see kids getting appointments with SATs in the sub 1800 range, we realize that it was not meant to be, ever. He will not be applying again. If our kid does not pass the "whole person" concept, I'm not sure who does. They certainly do not want the brightest anymore at USNA. Son is off to plan B, a top tier college, who appreciates his intellect, physical skills, well rounded interests (guitar, master scuba diver, runs marathons, etc.). Son has gotten over the disappointment; I'm still working on that....

Obviously, you know your son better than anybody. I'm sure he is a great kid.

But, what you have said here is quite revealing. The recommendations from the Math and English teacher are critical elements of the admissions process. If your son got a negative recommendation from a teacher, that can certainly shoot him down. Despite one's grades, sleeping in class is almost always going to be an unimpressive attribute. The Academy is looking for something MORE than smart kids; they are looking for polite, well-behaved, motivated kids that have a sense or propriety. They're looking for leaders who lead by example.

I'm guessing that most of the candidates get very positive recommendations from the Math and English teacher. The fact that your son did not makes him "stand out" in kind of a negative way. As competitive as it is - that could very well be the nail in the proverbial coffin as for as admissions is concerned.

I wouldn't be blaming the Academy. I would blame the teacher for not seeing your son as the outstanding future leader despite his propensity to sleep in class.

I was advising a local friend of my sons' on the admissions process to the service academies. He was trying to get into the Class of 2014 at the Air Force Academy. He came over to the house and we talked. He seemed to have it all. I asked him, "Are you in the National Honor Society?" I was a little bit stunned when he said, "No." Why not? How could he not be? With outstanding grades and credentials as he had, it begged the question - Why not? Well, the answer, as it turned out is that he got a very negative review from his Spanish teacher. She didn't like him because he seldom paid attention in class and was always talking. Not good. Needless to say, he is not going to the U.S. Air Force Academy this summer. I could see that coming, too.

The Academy is not looking for kids who are so naturally smart that they can sleep in class and still excel. Quite frankly, those are the ones who struggle once they get to the Academy because they are shocked that their natural intellectual abilities are often not enough. For the first time, they are going to actually have to work hard and pay attention.

As I've often said, the Academy is famous for converting 3.9 GPA students into 2.5 GPA students. It happens with regularity. Where do you think the midshipman who graduate in the bottom 20% of the class come from? For the most part, they were all in the upper 20% of their high school class. They are the ones who get overwhelmed with the pace of academy life. They never seem to catch up. They are shocked by the level of effort that they now need to put forth. Some make that adjustment, some do not.

As Vice Admiral Fowler (Superintendent) told the Class of 2013 on Induction Day, "The level of excellence that got you here today is not good enough to get you though the next four years of the Naval Academy." Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Whistle Pig]

Jenny and Memphis have said much quite well, and I concur w/o rehashing any of it, except Memphis' point of ...

The recommendations from the Math and English teacher are critical elements of the admissions process.

My reason for lending special emphasis to this is to note its specific imporatance. And to identify and edify his central point is to clarify and edify goldfarb's points of ...

For those who will be applying for 2015 and beyond, make sure you pick a teacher you have a good relationship with. For example, my current english teacher and I just don't get along well. Completely different thought processes. My 10th grade english teacher and I clicked very well, and we've discussed my military plans. So I'll go for her rec.

And ...

Personally I don't think rec's have too much bearing on the app process as a whole. All teacher rec's are going to be the same thing essentially, assuming it is positive.

While not on the admissions board, I join some others here in begging to strongly disagree with the notion that recs are anything other than VERY important. And also note, that unfortunately, candidates don't have the option of selecting who they might choose to offer them.

My thought? Select your English and math teachers in grade 11 very thoughtfully. (Locally, it's understood that one 11th grade English teacher must be avoided at every cost, as she's vehemently anti-men and military, and the district chose to avoid rather than fight this. ) And encourage those writers to lend above and beyond the traditional, ho hum, "he's a fine young man with great potential and I'm happy to recommend him, confident he'll do well at your institution. Contact me if you've any questions" type of recommendation. Their robust and positive input is essential. SCMom might attest to this.

 

[marciemi]

Positive attitude.

Regarding teacher rec's. Here's my two cents, take it for what its worth:

For those who will be applying for 2015 and beyond, make sure you pick a teacher you have a good relationship with. For example, my current english teacher and I just don't get along well. Completely different thought processes. My 10th grade english teacher and I clicked very well, and we've discussed my military plans. So I'll go for her rec.

I may be getting the academies mixed up, but I'm pretty sure that my son had to use his junior or senior year English and Math teachers. Sophomore or earlier weren't allowed. Definitely check into that and make sure you use the right one when it does become available. Son's junior year English teacher was anti-military (and didn't care much for him, his brothers or the rest of our family) so I know he wouldn't have used her unless he had to (and I know he did).

 

[kmaidaho]

I'm betting there are a lot of kids looking into how they can move to Idaho right now.

Just kidding.

Well, lest you think it's a shoe-in to live here and get in, I assure you TWE's do come to Idaho too. My son got one and believe me, he's "all that and more"...like many, many other TWE recipients this year.

Kathy

 

[jennyp]

Son's junior year English teacher was anti-military (and didn't care much for him, his brothers or the rest of our family) so I know he wouldn't have used her unless he had to (and I know he did).

Marci: Even though the teacher was anti-military and not fond of your gang, obviously he/she was responsible enough not to take advantage of the opportunity to "sink" his application! Be nice if all teachers were so understanding!

I'm thinking I read somewhere on here that if your teacher is totally anti-military and thinks you are a right wing facist pig for wanting to attend USXA, that you can call up and get permission to use another teacher........

I'm thinking a talk with a questionable teacher might be in order. "Sir, I know you are not a fan of the military and you and I have never clicked, but may I please explain why I want to attend USXA. Your input is an important component of my application and I know you will understand." Or could write a letter (and copy the principal; principals love to have kids get accepted to USXA's).......just a thought for those applying for 2015.