Perhaps handholding was a poor choice of words. There are plenty of well qualified minorities but the trick is getting well qualified minorities interested in applying.
Last year for USAFAPS?
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There are plenty of well qualified non-minorities that are not interested in applying.
I am not a social anthropologist, but it's not as simple as free education and service to the country that will attract minorities to SAs.
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The 'zoo' is USAFA not the PS...I was talking about academy grads as a whole...and I worked with grads, some of them preppies for my entire career, and they were a very diverse bunch.
But there is something more, they were used to working, living with, and casually hanging out with a diverse group...guess what, that is how the military works also.
Someone mentioned that getting rid of nominations would take politics out of it. Maybe some states have that problem...but if you go to the USAFA visitor center, you will see some maps where grads are from...there are some sparsely populated areas represented...because their senators and congressmen can give nominations.
So you have grads out there from almost every background you can think of...the common bond is they earned their graduation.
I am so sick of hearing from you non-military pukes who never served in the military! Don't know an MOS from an M-16! Here there is a rumor of closing the USAFA Prep School and your talking about your tax dollars being wasted in this school! I never went to the Prep school, but I worked with them. Sure they may send there recruited athletes there to build up there SAT/ACT and GPA. I knew many of Prep schooler's who went on to the AFA and had nice careers. Your talking about your tax dollars being misspent. Why don't you look at other areas where your tax dollars are being misspent like Congress, the Senators, and Obama.
Whats next? Get rid of the Academies altogether! Oh I forgot, Stanford is there to go to. Oh, our DS and DD's don't have 3.99 GPA's and are not on the boxing team. So that school is out.
Yea, this message is harsh! I served with the Army in a far off country in 71. Transferred to the Air force in 80. Spent 4 yrs at the Academy. Yes that's right almost 35 yrs ago. I know what your going to say, "That was 35 yrs ago, times have changed". Yes, but if that was your DD or DS trying to get to the AFA and only got accepted to the Prep school, would you still want it closed. If you said, "Yes" your a liar! I can relate to the former Prep school students, enlisted, officers and civilians who worked there. Why take the dream of some young man or woman away who wants to go to the AFA, but first must go to the Prep school to get accepted. Okay, so only 40% go on to graduate. Now your complaining about your tax dollars being misspent. I am one pissed off Veteran who is sick of your crying about YOUR tax dollars being misspent and putting the blame on the USAFA Prep school.
Whats next? Get rid of the Academies altogether! Oh I forgot, Stanford is there to go to. Oh, our DS and DD's don't have 3.99 GPA's and are not on the boxing team. So that school is out.
Yea, this message is harsh! I served with the Army in a far off country in 71. Transferred to the Air force in 80. Spent 4 yrs at the Academy. Yes that's right almost 35 yrs ago. I know what your going to say, "That was 35 yrs ago, times have changed". Yes, but if that was your DD or DS trying to get to the AFA and only got accepted to the Prep school, would you still want it closed. If you said, "Yes" your a liar! I can relate to the former Prep school students, enlisted, officers and civilians who worked there. Why take the dream of some young man or woman away who wants to go to the AFA, but first must go to the Prep school to get accepted. Okay, so only 40% go on to graduate. Now your complaining about your tax dollars being misspent. I am one pissed off Veteran who is sick of your crying about YOUR tax dollars being misspent and putting the blame on the USAFA Prep school.
MN-Dad-2016
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You do realize that some "non-pukes" (those who attended USAFA) think the mission of USAFAPS is off course.
If I followed your posted logic, I would not be allowed to comment on government waste because I never served in Congress.
Christcorp
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+1
Tough Love approach; but generally speaking, very accurate!
There's not one bit of government spending, that doesn't have waste in it. When we look at government spending as a whole, you see that social program spending comes out to almost 33% of all government spending. There's just as much waste there as anywhere. And I think that's the point of AFA1981's post. Many concerns here because the academy/prep school/air force is very close to all of us. But we should be looking at the BIG picture. There is absolutely no reason in the world to be going through this "Sequester" type of funding policy. While the military definitely has some room to trim costs and reduce inefficiency; there's many other areas of government spending, which spend more than the military, that some politicians want to even increase spending for. We should be fighting, complaining, arguing, etc... at a much higher level. Meaning, with our congressmen/senators about government spending as a whole. About our weak economy. And about the leadership causing it.
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Pima
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No bone in this fight. 1981 I am curious with the DoD cutting it's budget over the next decade, where do you suggest they cut it from to keep the school going? Do you suggest they take it from the operational budget for ADAF?
OBTW, I do believe it is a rumor and people are running a muck with fear that has yet to be acknowledged as fact.
OBTW, I do believe it is a rumor and people are running a muck with fear that has yet to be acknowledged as fact.
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Wowzaaa... went straight for it.... love the "pukes" line.
Why take the dream away? Um, because we already do for.... what 85% of the applicants (if you believe the numbers). Why not take it away for more of them? Because they'll feel bad? Tough $hit. That's life. Every year there are tens of thousands of applicants who feel bad. Are they all supposed to get participant trophies now too?
The truth is, tax dollars are misspent, every day, by local communities, counties, cities, states and the federal government. The Department of Defense is certainly no exception to that waste.
So a veteran (not capitalized, although, increasing vets think is should be) is sick of pukes who cry about OUR (including your) tax dollars. Um, who cares? You should be concerned too. That doesn't mean Congress will do anything about it. Your single vote means nothing. A phone call to Congressional staff only means a little more than nothing.
I don't know if USAFA Prep School is a waste, specifically. I would venture to guess that if all of the academies ditched their prep programs, they would not suffer, and somehow, the service would survive. So if a majority of prepsters don't graduate, and it's hard to determine a positive long-term impact of the prep school program, is the only reason to keep it open because a pissed off veteran doesn't want to crush the dreams of a handful of folks who were not accepted directly to an academy (joining tens of thousands who not only weren't accepted directly to the academy, but weren't even offered a Prep spot?) Personnally, I think not.
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MANY might be too strong of a word for this. This is not Department in the federal government with a larger budget than DOD. Yes, Medicare and Social Security (and all of the unfunded veterans liabilities) are HUGE, but as a department DOD is FAR ahead of the rest in spending.
How about a 10%-20% reduction accross all DOD educational benefits. USAFA, ROTC, OCS, GI Bill, etc. That seems better than closing USAFAPS.
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Unless you're one of the many people who benefit from those programs. "Uh yes, I don't want the G.I. Bill, which I opted for, so 40% of prepsters can go to USAFA and possibly graduate.
Yeah, not sure how many AD or vets would appreciate that.
Not saying they couldn't make cuts, but I am saying that DOD would hear from Congress about it...
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Wowzaaa... went straight for it.... love the "pukes" line.
Why take the dream away? Um, because we already do for.... what 85% of the applicants (if you believe the numbers). Why not take it away for more of them? Because they'll feel bad? Tough $hit. That's life. Every year there are tens of thousands of applicants who feel bad. Are they all supposed to get participant trophies now too?
The truth is, tax dollars are misspent, every day, by local communities, counties, cities, states and the federal government. The Department of Defense is certainly no exception to that waste.
So a veteran (not capitalized, although, increasing vets think is should be) is sick of pukes who cry about OUR (including your) tax dollars. Um, who cares? You should be concerned too. That doesn't mean Congress will do anything about it. Your single vote means nothing. A phone call to Congressional staff only means a little more than nothing.
I don't know if USAFA Prep School is a waste, specifically. I would venture to guess that if all of the academies ditched their prep programs, they would not suffer, and somehow, the service would survive. So if a majority of prepsters don't graduate, and it's hard to determine a positive long-term impact of the prep school program, is the only reason to keep it open because a pissed off veteran doesn't want to crush the dreams of a handful of folks who were not accepted directly to an academy (joining tens of thousands who not only weren't accepted directly to the academy, but weren't even offered a Prep spot?) Personnally, I think not.
Majority of academy applicants are denied entry due to the nomination process. If we do away with the 250 slots usually taken by the Prepster the academy would not give all those slots to direct entries. They would just reduce the class size. USAFA is only interested in graduating approximately 900 - 1000 cadets per year.
I believe everyone will need to sacrafice due to sequestration. Not just the academies prep schools. I did not say eliminate any programs, just reduce them accross the board.
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There are far more nominations than class spots. If you did away with Prepsters, you would also reduce an alternate flow to the class, which you could make up for in other ways.
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Right, I get what you're saying, and I would maintain that cuts need to occur, not only because of sequestration, but because our debt of nearly $17,000,000,000,000 and growing is unsustainable.
I am saying that those kinds of cuts will create noise, and members of Congress, who are concerned with being re-elected, would likely act (not to mention the G.I. Bill isn't DOD). That is different than cuts within the military, which, with the exception of military communities, are generally isolated from the general voting public.
Pima
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10% in GI? They earned that bennie via ADAF. Sorry, I wouldn't touch that for prep.
ROTC how will you cut 10%? 95% of all scholarships pay less than 18K a yr., and it is only for tuition. Basically, only about 50 cadets every yr will get 100% tuition coverage. They already cut the stipend for FY 14. They have closed/combined many dets. They only go for one training session which is their rising jr. yr. If not selected for SFT, they are dis-enrolled. Thus, the AFROTC scholarship is really only guaranteed for 2 yrs. It appears to me that AFROTC in the past 2-3 yrs already did their cuts.
OBTW at our DS's det. he was given 1 set of blues as a 100, got his ABUs as a 200. A second set of blues upon selection for SFT. His flight suit as a 400. He got PT gear(no sneaks) his freshman yr., but take a gander at some old threads and you will see many dets don't give out PT gear until contracted or their 200 yr. This yr. that will be true at our DS's det. they doubled+ in enrollments from 85 to 180 for freshmen. They don't have the budget to pay for PT gear on top of their blues.
Plus, as it has been pointed out many cadets are academically over-qualified for prep.
OCS? They go to a school for @10 weeks. Where do you cut them by 10%?
You may see money that can be cut by the AFA, but I truly don't see it for the other areas. Maybe TA, but than again that is taking from ADAF where members are serving and can be called to action with little notice, and they owe time back for that assistance.
ROTC how will you cut 10%? 95% of all scholarships pay less than 18K a yr., and it is only for tuition. Basically, only about 50 cadets every yr will get 100% tuition coverage. They already cut the stipend for FY 14. They have closed/combined many dets. They only go for one training session which is their rising jr. yr. If not selected for SFT, they are dis-enrolled. Thus, the AFROTC scholarship is really only guaranteed for 2 yrs. It appears to me that AFROTC in the past 2-3 yrs already did their cuts.
OBTW at our DS's det. he was given 1 set of blues as a 100, got his ABUs as a 200. A second set of blues upon selection for SFT. His flight suit as a 400. He got PT gear(no sneaks) his freshman yr., but take a gander at some old threads and you will see many dets don't give out PT gear until contracted or their 200 yr. This yr. that will be true at our DS's det. they doubled+ in enrollments from 85 to 180 for freshmen. They don't have the budget to pay for PT gear on top of their blues.
Plus, as it has been pointed out many cadets are academically over-qualified for prep.
OCS? They go to a school for @10 weeks. Where do you cut them by 10%?
You may see money that can be cut by the AFA, but I truly don't see it for the other areas. Maybe TA, but than again that is taking from ADAF where members are serving and can be called to action with little notice, and they owe time back for that assistance.
That argument could be made for all DOD educational benefits. I am more than positive that ROTC and AFA both could reduce there budgets. (BTW USAFA cadet pay for there uniforms including PT thru payroll deduction, nothing is given to them). Many prep school applicants could also receive ROTC scholarships. Majority of the prep school cadets have great GPA, SAT scores, and all the other requirements neccessary to attend a majority of the university in this country. The prep school is there for those who want to serve their country as officers by attending USAFA. Many USAFAPS received addmission to other Univ. and ROTC scholarships but choose the Prep school instead.
AFA, ROTC, OCS budget can be reduced by the numbers admitted to the program.
If the GI bill is finance by the federal government, it should be on the chopping block just like everything else. Nothing should be isolated.
Christcorp
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http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1258
In fiscal year 2012, the federal government spent $3.5 trillion, amounting to 23 percent of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Of that $3.5 trillion, nearly $2.5 trillion was financed by federal revenues. The remaining amount (about $1.1 trillion) was financed by borrowing; this deficit will ultimately be paid for by future taxpayers. As the graph on the next page shows, three major areas of spending each make up about one-fifth of the budget:
Defense and international security assistance: In 2012, 19 percent of the budget, or $689 billion, paid for defense and security-related international activities. The bulk of the spending in this category reflects the underlying costs of the Department of Defense. The total also includes the cost of supporting operations in Afghanistan and other related activities, described as Overseas Contingency Operations in the budget, funding for which totaled $127 billion in 2012.
Social Security: Another 22 percent of the budget, or $773 billion, paid for Social Security, which provided monthly retirement benefits averaging $1,262 to 36.7 million retired workers in December 2012. Social Security also provided benefits to 2.9 million spouses and children of retired workers, 6.3 million surviving children and spouses of deceased workers, and 10.9 million disabled workers and their eligible dependents in December 2012.
Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP: Three health insurance programs — Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) — together accounted for 21 percent of the budget in 2012, or $732 billion. Nearly two-thirds of this amount, or $472 billion, went to Medicare, which provides health coverage to around 48 million people who are over the age of 65 or have disabilities. The remainder of this category funds Medicaid and CHIP, which in a typical month in 2012 provided health care or long-term care to about 60 million low-income children, parents, elderly people, and people with disabilities. Both Medicaid and CHIP require matching payments from the states.
Two other categories together account for another fifth of federal spending:
Safety net programs: About 12 percent of the federal budget in 2012, or $411 billion, supported programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship. Spending on safety net programs declined in both nominal and real terms between 2011 and 2012 as the economy continued to improve.
These programs include: the refundable portions of the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit, which assist low- and moderate-income working families through the tax code; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including Supplemental Security Income for the elderly or disabled poor and unemployment insurance; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income families and individuals, including SNAP (food stamps), school meals, low-income housing assistance, child care assistance, and assistance in meeting home energy bills; and various other programs such as those that aid abused and neglected children.
Such programs keep millions of people out of poverty each year. A CBPP analysis shows that government safety net programs kept some 25 million people out of poverty in 2010. Without any government income assistance, either from safety net programs or other income supports like Social Security, the poverty rate would have been 28.6 percent in 2010, nearly double the actual 15.5 percent.
Interest on the national debt: The federal government must make regular interest payments on the money it has borrowed to finance past deficits — that is, on the national debt held by the public, which reached $11 trillion by the end of fiscal year 2012. In 2012, these interest payments claimed $220 billion, or about 6 percent of the budget.
But the majority of the applicants denied admissions is due to not securing a nomination. Many more applicants are denied appointments thru the nomination process than anything else.