2 Week Fleet Standard ROM

[OldRetSWO]

No one wants Mids sick, but there are different views on what will get you guys to full strength the fastest. Herd immunity is an accepted approach. Many states have adopted less stringent protocols and been more successful than locked down states. We are learning. It is possible that the isolation dance is prolonging the misery.

I'm sorry but Herd Immunity is not an approach or a tactic, it is a goal to achieve. How we get there is the approach and that is the issue. We can try to take precautions until vaccines bring the populations overall immunity up to where the virus goes away OR we can ease up and allow "natural" immunity (immunity built the hard way) to take hold until it plus the vaccines get the population immunity to that level. While you
may dismiss the difficulty that some number mids will experience from the illness including some who may end up having to turnback to the
next class or maybe not ever being commissionable will have. What do you consider the acceptable rate of turnbacks or discharges? Heack, something as minor as a severe case that keeps a mid out of zoom classes for 3 or 4 weeks could make a substantial difference in GPA and OOM which could mean the difference between Med School or not. . . (Or a new San Diego DD vs a Norfolk decrepit Amphib) at service selection time..

 

[ThereseInDenver]

They might still have the priory of "a" Carrier group...just not as high as a group about to deploy or on workups.

This happened this morning. The supes of all three institutions seem to be saying that they put cadets & mids in line according to the priority categories, so they get vax'd after the older people /people with co-morbidities on West Point, the Yard, and USAFA sites. https://appropriations.house.gov/ev...SBqOOndHxIjMrnCermTkYLUboIZCpiAQe9lNKfNApDRO8

 

[A1Janitor]

Are the people who got Covid already immune? Do they need the vaccine?

Do the people who get the vaccines become immune?

Can the people who get the vaccine become carriers of the disease?

I am not convinced we know the science yet.

The front line doctors and nurses were given the vaccine when it first came out in my area. Weeks after 14 were quarantined - they got the disease despite having the vaccine.

 

[Korab]

Are the people who got Covid already immune? Do they need the vaccine?

Do the people who get the vaccines become immune?

Can the people who get the vaccine become carriers of the disease?

I am not convinced we know the science yet.

The front line doctors and nurses were given the vaccine when it first came out in my area. Weeks after 14 were quarantined - they got the disease despite having the vaccine.

They don't have any idea - but they destroyed peoples lives and businesses nonetheless.

 

[Skipper07]

Ditto @OldRetSWO

Mids understand that COVID (probably) won't kill us. However, no one wants to risk their commission and/or desired service selection.

 

[OldRetSWO]

The front line doctors and nurses were given the vaccine when it first came out in my area. Weeks after 14 were quarantined - they got the disease despite having the vaccine.

Somehow the media does not seem to know about this yet

 

[A1Janitor]

Somehow the media does not seem to know about this yet

An employee at hospital shared with me the email that the hospital sent to other workers. Tightly guarded ... they don’t want the public to know.

It’s a valid concern I have with the vaccine.

My father tested positive for Covid yet doesn’t have the antibodies now.

 

[BlessedMom13]

Science seems to be subjective and fluid. There is no doubt the severity of how hard some are hit. I don't think anyone is wrong in what they think. We are all making decisions for our families to the best of our ability with the information or "facts" that we have. And we all come from areas of the country affected differently. We all have unique experiences with the virus from a medical, societal, economic, and psychological perspective. We can't judge others reactions. I think it's also true that we don't know the long-term effects of the vaccines they have rushed to market. We can all agree it's been a scary, unprecedented time and that we all love our kids/parents/friends/classmates/communities. And I hope we can all agree that the administration at the Academy has the best interest of all within that community. Grace is needed for all of us. We are all doing the best that we can.

 

[WolfPackGrunt]

The science is still evolving. The questions posed by @A1Janitor are still unknown. Aside from risk of death, which is extremely rare especially in young adults, there is a more common prevalence of other maladies such as heart complications post-CV19. The long term effects of CV19 are unclear because we are still in the short term. My .02 is that the sooner Mids are vaccinated the better- the available scientific evidence firmly establishes that the risks of infection far outweigh the risks of vaccination.

 

[A1Janitor]

My .02 is that the sooner Mids are vaccinated the better- the available scientific evidence firmly establishes that the risks of infection far outweigh the risks of vaccination.

At the beginning - they said asthma/COPD was a comorbidity - so I was cautious as I am an asthmatic diagnosed with COPD. Then I heard months later that actually being an asthmatic is actually better for Covid - I already have albuterol and steroid inhalers.

I basically stay at home and only go out once in a great while for food. Walk my goldendoodle 4 miles a day for fresh air.

So I get the fear. And my father, 2 sisters, a brother-in-law and a niece had it. My father - an 86 year old asthmatic - had the mildest symptoms. The others were hit hard like the midshipman earlier.

I get the anger. My mother is in hospice now, dying of cancer. And my family ... her kids, grandkids, and great grandkids can’t say goodbye in person.

I just don’t trust our government and big tech.

In my opinion - we should be pushing nutrition, vitamins c and d, zinc, - and other things that builds immune systems. My father takes those vitamins daily, and he thrived.

My friend has my doses of ivermectin ready to go if I get it. Other countries use that and have found success.

 

[usna1985]

As to why those who have been vaccinated might still get COVID . . . You don't develop a decent level immunity until about two weeks after your first dose of vaccine. So, you could get COVID shortly before you received the vaccine and get sick (happened to friends of mine). You could get COVID right after the vaccine, while you're still building up antibodies. After the first dose, you're ~70% protected. You could be one of the 30%, especially if you're surrounded by it, as some healthcare workers are. Even after both doses, you're about 97% protected. That means 3% could still get sick. Finally, the expectation is that, if you do contract COVID after being vaccinated, your symptoms will be lessened -- much as with influenza vaccine.

the available scientific evidence firmly establishes that the risks of infection far outweigh the risks of vaccination.

Fully agree!

 

[ThereseInDenver]

Yes, the "opt out" is an option (no pun intended) versus making it a requirement.

I'm hoping they fully utilize the carrot vs. the stick. I think it will be amusing to see how quickly "vaccine hesitant" individuals change their mind when they realize they aren't getting off the ship in port, can't fly and can't go to this event or that event without proof of vaccination.

 

[A1Janitor]

I'm hoping they fully utilize the carrot vs. the stick. I think it will be amusing to see how quickly "vaccine hesitant" individuals change their mind when they realize they aren't getting off the ship in port, can't fly and can't go to this event or that event without proof of vaccination.

Is that worth the risk that there could be unforeseen long term effects that we don’t know about now? Like sterilization?

Just asking a hypothetical, devil’s advocate question. Not trying to be disagreeable.

 

[WolfPackGrunt]

Is that worth the risk that there could be unforeseen long term effects that we don’t know about now? Like sterilization?

Just asking a hypothetical, devil’s advocate question. Not trying to be disagreeable.

At this point, given the body of evidence available, yes. Unknowns are unknowns and work both ways.

 

[ThereseInDenver]

I just don’t trust our government and big tech.

In my opinion - we should be pushing nutrition, vitamins c and d, zinc, - and other things that builds immune systems. My father takes those vitamins daily, and he thrived.

Is that worth the risk that there could be unforeseen long term effects that we don’t know about now? Like sterilization?

It's your choice. Take your vitamin C, Zinc, D because there is some correlation between deficiencies of those nutrients and severity. But if you decide not get vaccinated, back that choice/personal freedom up with a decision to just stay home and treat COVID yourself, if infected. Our staff are exhausted.

 

[BrightSide]

I'm sorry but Herd Immunity is not an approach or a tactic, it is a goal to achieve. How we get there is the approach and that is the issue. We can try to take precautions until vaccines bring the populations overall immunity up to where the virus goes away OR we can ease up and allow "natural" immunity (immunity built the hard way) to take hold until it plus the vaccines get the population immunity to that level. While you
may dismiss the difficulty that some number mids will experience from the illness including some who may end up having to turnback to the
next class or maybe not ever being commissionable will have. What do you consider the acceptable rate of turnbacks or discharges? Heack, something as minor as a severe case that keeps a mid out of zoom classes for 3 or 4 weeks could make a substantial difference in GPA and OOM which could mean the difference between Med School or not. . . (Or a new San Diego DD vs a Norfolk decrepit Amphib) at service selection time..

Good point on the herd immunity, I misused the word, but am suggesting there are other paths to the other side of this. What's the right one? Vaccines, natural resistance, wait it out, a total impenetrable bubble, or the other vitamins and treatments as suggested by other posters... It's an interesting discussion. I'm not a big fan of the hot and cold, inconsistent isolation they've been trying but mostly I think it's interesting to discuss.
But, in answer to your reply, I would say I would not "dismiss the difficulty" as much as I would weigh it against the other costs of (questionably effective) long term isolation practices at the yard. -- (We all suffered with what tragically happened at AF last year, then we had our youngsters stranded at home for months, CW cancelled for 2020, summer training lost and are now seeing the costs to mental and prt preparedness of the isolation, not to mention the mental effect of limited food options.) The answer isn't simple. There are costs and benefits of any path.
We may (emphasis on may) protect some from getting it (honestly, is it working?) with these isolation approaches, but the practice is not without its own cost.
The goal is a whole brigade of strong, healthy, trained leaders, not just graduated mids who survived and avoided Covid. Not just healthy grads, but trained grads, with mental fortitude and leadership skills (those don't come from iso). Interesting to debate how to achieve that- and how these multiple priorities intersect.

 

[ders_dad]

My doctor, a healthy, extremely fit man in his 40’s, trainer for an NFL team and former trainer for an NHL team, got COVID in July. He is still at only 80% normal O2 levels and may have to retire. He told me anyone who scoffs at COVID risks should call him. He is willing to talk with anyone about the risks and the science. My son had COVID and missed 2 days of work. Who’s right? I’m a scientist-I trust in the scientific method.

 

[A1Janitor]

My doctor, a healthy, extremely fit man in his 40’s, trainer for an NFL team and former trainer for an NHL team, got COVID in July. He is still at only 80% normal O2 levels and may have to retire. He told me anyone who scoffs at COVID risks should call him. He is willing to talk with anyone about the risks and the science. My son had COVID and missed 2 days of work. Who’s right? I’m a scientist-I trust in the scientific method.

The scientific method would take a larger sample size. I personally knew a 35 year old woman who died of pneumonia.

The same science that went back and forth on whether it was air born, whether masks work, etc.

We don’t even know if the vaccines prevent future infection or for how long it provides immunity. We don’t know if people who get the vaccine can pass covid to others or not.

Some states and countries have better results with less restrictive measures.

A recent analysis by a scientist I saw suggested the numbers will drastically reduce in three months on its own.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
The Covid virus can induce a “Cytokine storm” to lung tissue .... this is the worst scenario/symptom. When the storm happens around the lungs, the White blood cells kick-in and Kill the lung tissue .... Rapid massive fluid swelling occurs and the patient Suffocates

Cytokine storms occur regularly in people with “Auto-Immune” diseases, e.g Rheumatoid Arthritis which is a Cytokine storms in the joints, Crones (small intestines), Psoriasis of the skin.

I want to get the Covid vaccination because I fear suffocating the most ... like being buried alive.

If the vaccine can prevent these Cytokine storms to the Lungs, then we have Won the War.
.

 

[A1Janitor]

.
The Covid virus induced “Cytokine storm” to lung tissue .... this is the worst scenario/symptom. When the storm happens around the lungs, the White blood cells kick-in and Kill the lung tissue .... Rapid massive fluid swelling occurs and the patient Suffocates

Cytokine storms occur regularly in people with “Auto-Immune” diseases, e.g Rheumatoid Arthritis which is a Cytokine storms in the joints, Crones (small intestines), Psoriasis of the skin.

I want to get the Covid vaccination because I fear suffocating the most.

If the vaccine can prevent these Cytokine storms to the Lungs, then we have Won the War.
.

My sister got Covid ... she had breast cancer twice and has ulcerative colitis. Her symptoms lasted like three weeks and she was bedridden. She is getting the vaccine.