I really do not know how to break this to you, but all that technology was here 3 years ago during your son's Plebe Summer.
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I really do not know how to break this to you, but all that technology was here 3 years ago during your son's Plebe Summer.
Duhh Devil Dog!
My statements are not those of a middlle aged parent. They are parphrasing a 21 year old technically savvy 1C midshipmen with mutiple leadership positions held. 2014 is a very smart class but you unplug them from their technological comfort zones and a lot of them are struggleing with basic human communications and interpersonell skills. These are skills that will be mandatory for them to be succesful leaders and officers. For a 21 year old to notice and label it "generational" is interesting and points out that something is different.
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Excellent point! Probably, the previous two (at least) classes were actually very similar in the beginning, and they presumably turned out fine!
Interesting insight on the class of 2014. Perhaps your son doesn't have enough experience to make an accurate evaluation of the class of 2014 or the quality of the minority talent pool.
Was your son accepted into the USNA before the great diversity effort? Wonder if he'd have the same advice if he was passed over for less qualified Mids "that shouldn't be there"?
Those that were passed over were done so because they were not the number one candidate in their district, not because of a "less qualified mid(s) that shouldn't be there." No one to blame but themselves.
Having gone through the Ivy League and now the Service Academy admissions process, I feel safe in saying that all top schools are competing for the top minority applicants. If you have a free ride to an Ivy or other top 25 school, that certainly takes the "free education" part of the service academies out of the decision equation.
This is a tough issue, but as I said the competition for the "highly qualified" URM is absolutely fierce. Each institution will win some and lose some.
This is a tough issue, but as I said the competition for the "highly qualified" URM is absolutely fierce. Each institution will win some and lose some.
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Okay...I'm going under the assumption that your son is a company commander/platoon commander (i think that is still a 1/c leadership position)...so your son only works closely with about 40 plebes...of on avg about 1200 plebes. That is about 3% of the class. That's a huge broad brush statement to make of an entire class. Also, the plebes are just a week into their training. I'm sure that my detailers thought similar things of our class a week into our plebe summer. Sounds to me as if you son has made up his mind that these plebes cannot learn, cannot be trained, and if that is the case it's the failure of this set of detailers to break them down and build them up to "military" minded plebes.
If your son holds a detail position higher than w/in the company than he actually has less interaction w/ the plebes. It's really the 2/c mids who are the ones working with the plebes. I look back on my plebe summer and don't remember my 1/c detailers at all but i can certainly tell you who my second class detailers were.
That's just my '02 cents
Evidently MIDNDAD's son and you disagree. He evidently thought a few of the minority students "should not be there". If they were the number one candidates in their districts, are you suggesting they are the best of a "bad" group?
I would be willing to bet there are quite a few non-minority students that don't belong either. My time served in the USMC taught me that there are good and bad officers of the light green and the dark green variety. Incompetence is color blind.
WCS in admissions process?
I have heard about the WCS from many sources -but recently watched the documentary "Inside America's Military Academies", in which the committee discussion was much more subjective, with up, down, or neutral votes from each member - no mention of these points; instead, detailed discussions of specific accomplishments. Can anyone reconcile the two?
I have heard about the WCS from many sources -but recently watched the documentary "Inside America's Military Academies", in which the committee discussion was much more subjective, with up, down, or neutral votes from each member - no mention of these points; instead, detailed discussions of specific accomplishments. Can anyone reconcile the two?
Memphis9489
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It is way too soon to make such a sweeping assessment. In fact, I don't know how one can make this determination until the academic year is in full swing.
"Get over it" is not exactly what I call a ringing endorsement. It sounds much more like resignation of having to accept things as they are, for better or worse.
But I'll bet he's never seen "the paper" and does not know any of their test scores or achievements unless he asks them specifically. Somehow I doubt that the detailers are made privy to the Plebes' backgrounds.
There was a time when Plebe Year, (and Plebe Summer in particular) was partially considered a weeding out process. The Academy was honest enough to admit that they likely made some mistakes in the admissions process. Plebe Year was partially designed to get rid of the weaker links in the chains.
Some where along the line, (especially in the past 3 years) there has been this push for EVERYBODY to make it through. I don't think there's anything wrong to set people up to succeed. But what do you have in place for when they fail ... and fail continuously?
I think you are exactly right about that.
I think 2011 may justifiably claim that THEY had the last, real Plebe Summer - at least in recent history.
In my day, attrition was close to 30% - most of the attrition was academic related. They didn't have all the various levels to place people academically like they do today. Many people found themselves over their head in certain courses. Plus, there were not as many "second and third chances" as seems to exist today.
But I think much of this is about to change with the new administration.
DevilDog said:
What DevilDog said.
Additionally, I think we have confirmed that perhaps MIDNDAD's son is being a bit premature and what his dad reports him as saying, probably meant in confidence, should be taken with a grain of salt.
Hence my statement:
Someone from the CGO will present each record to the board. All positives and negatives not captured in the initial review will be highlighted. School type, course load, grade trends, background, exceptional athletic ability. Their feel for the candidate's ability to succeed. Then the WPM is adjusted. These adjustment points are called RABs (Recommendations of the Admissions Board). They can be positive or negative but the average input is somewhere around 5% of the total score added.
I have done a little research. During Vietnam Edison High School in Phila had the most KIA read on:
The school with the most names on the Wall: Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia, PA: 54 students perished.
That’s right, 54 young men between the ages of 18-24 fought in the Vietnam War between the years 1965-1974. No other school experienced so much pain and sorrow. Of those killed from Thomas Edison High School at the age of 16: five. Twelve more of those young men died at the age of 17.
You would be hard pressed to find a white face roaming the Halls of Edison High School. By contrast, I could not even find the figures for Radnor High School in an affluent suburb of Phila. But, they do have a page that honors their alumni that served our country, 22 Radnor Alums have served our country. There maybe more and there probably is, but those are the alum they identify. I attended an private upper class HS in suburban Phila. during the 70's, I can't remember anyone going to Vietnam. I am sure there was someone that went to Vietnam but, not 54 KIA.
So I guess it is alright for our minority kids to go to war and get killed, but they can't lead because the SAT and the ACT says so. I feel that is complete BS and it is a way for the old boys network to remain in place.
The school with the most names on the Wall: Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia, PA: 54 students perished.
That’s right, 54 young men between the ages of 18-24 fought in the Vietnam War between the years 1965-1974. No other school experienced so much pain and sorrow. Of those killed from Thomas Edison High School at the age of 16: five. Twelve more of those young men died at the age of 17.
You would be hard pressed to find a white face roaming the Halls of Edison High School. By contrast, I could not even find the figures for Radnor High School in an affluent suburb of Phila. But, they do have a page that honors their alumni that served our country, 22 Radnor Alums have served our country. There maybe more and there probably is, but those are the alum they identify. I attended an private upper class HS in suburban Phila. during the 70's, I can't remember anyone going to Vietnam. I am sure there was someone that went to Vietnam but, not 54 KIA.
So I guess it is alright for our minority kids to go to war and get killed, but they can't lead because the SAT and the ACT says so. I feel that is complete BS and it is a way for the old boys network to remain in place.
I think you're being a little melodramatic. I believe the skills required to fight (and die) are not necessarily the same as those needed to lead. Otherwise everyone would enter the military as enlisted and then get commissioned based on demonstrated leadership.
Confirmed and agreed.
I think you are trying to justify perpetuating the "old boy network" by saying that ACT and SAT scores dictate how a kid will grow up to be a leader. Let's face it, these minority kids were held down for the better part of 300 years. They were not given the same advantages as the white kids, now that they are being given the opportunities people are looking for ways to keep the door closed to them. A difference of 50 points on the math section of the SAT is not going to mean that the white kid from suburban anywhere will make a better leader than the AA kid from inner city Detroit.
If only everyone on both sides of the race card were color blind, then the world would be a better place. Wasn't that a 60s song?
The "old boy network" lives but IMHO it is becoming color blind. If you have walked the walk and talked the talk you are admitted to the club. And it is still easier to become a member if you are male than female.
I think USNA's push into underrepresented areas is not about finding minority candidates. It's about making these areas aware of the Naval Academy, what it has to offer and then encouraging qualified high school students to apply. It's a sad demographic of this country that some but not all of these under represented areas have been economically challenged for generations and predominately minority. Historically, the military has been a good way out of a challenging economic situation. Sometimes all a kid needs to hear is try and then he or she does and breaks the chain.
And in the defense of the Class of 2013, just like every class before them, the 2013 Mids went through the application and nomination process, were board reviewed, received an appointment, were inducted, went through Plebe Summer and Plebe Year and have made it to 3/C. Perhaps the attrition rate was lower because these kids were better prepared to be there than the kids admitted in the past. I think its time to stop discounting the Class of 2013 and start cheering them through the next three years at the Academy.
And for the Class of 2014, well a week is not long enough to tell - they still have to prove themselves. I wish them success.
GoNavyMom
Proud Parent of a Class of 2013 Mid
The "old boy network" lives but IMHO it is becoming color blind. If you have walked the walk and talked the talk you are admitted to the club. And it is still easier to become a member if you are male than female.
I think USNA's push into underrepresented areas is not about finding minority candidates. It's about making these areas aware of the Naval Academy, what it has to offer and then encouraging qualified high school students to apply. It's a sad demographic of this country that some but not all of these under represented areas have been economically challenged for generations and predominately minority. Historically, the military has been a good way out of a challenging economic situation. Sometimes all a kid needs to hear is try and then he or she does and breaks the chain.
And in the defense of the Class of 2013, just like every class before them, the 2013 Mids went through the application and nomination process, were board reviewed, received an appointment, were inducted, went through Plebe Summer and Plebe Year and have made it to 3/C. Perhaps the attrition rate was lower because these kids were better prepared to be there than the kids admitted in the past. I think its time to stop discounting the Class of 2013 and start cheering them through the next three years at the Academy.
And for the Class of 2014, well a week is not long enough to tell - they still have to prove themselves. I wish them success.
GoNavyMom
Proud Parent of a Class of 2013 Mid
How can a "kid" that is 18 years old have been held down for 300 years?
How can a "kid" that is 18 years old have been responsible for what occurred during the 282 years before he was born?
Oh wait! Your talking about reparations. One group of 18 year olds should pay the price for something they weren't responsible for, while another group reaps the benefits of something that wasn't done to them.
Luigi59
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Think again.
That's entirely what it's about. It's their #1 priority, according to the Chief Of Naval Operations, Admiral Gary Roughead.
When Roughead speaks of making "diversity" the #1 priority of the US Navy (the #1 priority, above all else - {btw, you can read the mission of the US Navy on their own website HERE} - winning wars, deterring aggression and maintaining freedom of the seas all become secondary, because logically, nothing can be above #1) - he is not speaking about diversity in education, backgound, political thought, height, or anyting else BUT racial diversity.
Why is everyone so afraid of stating it? The US Navy (along with all of the military) has determined that they need more minority officers and officer candidates in all 4 of the military academies. Not more qualified non-minority candidates.
Think about it - By the USNA's definition, the area is "underrepresented."
Underrepresented by whom?
Qualified non-minority applicants?
Of course not.
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