Average SAT Scores

[Korab]

did a little of research on this and West Point gets such a low acceptance rate because it counts something as small as filling out the candidate questionnaire as applying. It really doesn't help that the questionnaire is free too and that West Point sends out college mail just like any other university. There are tons of people who just fill this out and never actually do the rest of the application process but West Point still considers them as applicants.

You think conventional school don't do this? With the common app, it's as simple as clicking a button to apply to as many schools as you want to and can afford. With application fee waivers so prevalent, there isnt even a cost to do so. All application numbers and acceptance rates posted by schools are nonsense marketing propoganda.

 

[asd3467]

You think conventional school don't do this? With the common app, it's as simple as clicking a button to apply to as many schools as you want to and can afford. With application fee waivers so prevalent, there isnt even a cost to do so. All application numbers and acceptance rates posted by schools are nonsense marketing propoganda.

OP was comparing to ivy league schools. the difference between common app and applying to USMA is that common app like you said takes no thought process and can be added with a click. USMA application is only for itself and the application is very long.

 

[Korab]

OP was comparing to ivy league schools. the difference between common app and applying to USMA is that common app like you said takes no thought process and can be added with a click. USMA application is only for itself and the application is very long.

I am well aware of the different application process for SA's v. common app schools. You claimed that the difference in acceptance rate between USMA and the Ivies and other highly regarded schools referenced in OP's post was that USMA counted everyone who began the application process. I was pointing out that its easier to apply to common app schools than even filling out the original questionaire for USMA. In case you weren't aware, all the Ivies (and Duke and Vanderbilt, which were also referenced by the OP) accept the common app. Its also highly likely that those other schools count as applicants those who begin any portion of the application process, including initial questionnaires, although the schools won't admit this, because acceptance rates are used in all their marketing materials.

 

[asd3467]

I am well aware of the different application process for SA's v. common app schools. You claimed that the difference in acceptance rate between USMA and the Ivies and other highly regarded schools referenced in OP's post was that USMA counted everyone who began the application process. I was pointing out that its easier to apply to common app schools than even filling out the original questionaire for USMA. In case you weren't aware, all the Ivies (and Duke and Vanderbilt, which were also referenced by the OP) accept the common app. Its also highly likely that those other schools count as applicants those begin any portion of the application process, including initial questionnaires, although the schools won't admit this, because acceptance rates are used in all their marketing materials.

Doing the common app means submitted the WHOLE application, meaning there's a chance to get in. As opposed to west point where finishing the questionnaire is like 5% of the application and doesn't mean anything.

 

[TheRightStuff]

The Common App does not just "click and go" to many of the top schools, as specific short answer and additional essays are required for those schools. Some may also ask for additional materials (i.e. Columbia with a research abstract, etc.) to be submitted as well.

While the Common App does take the repetition out of the boilerplate info to be provided, applying to the many of the most selective schools is still a huge commitment of time and information wrangling/presentation.

 

[Korab]

Doing the common app means submitted the WHOLE application, meaning there's a chance to get in. As opposed to west point where finishing the questionnaire is like 5% of the application and doesn't mean anything.

I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.

 

[A1Janitor]

What would West Point’s acceptance rate be if they accepted the common app?

 

[aa-ttention]

The average SAT/ACT scores for West Point are fairly competitive, but they are not as high as other colleges with acceptance rates in the teens or single digits. For context...

Dartmouth: acceptance rate is 10%, average SAT is 1480, ACT is 32
Duke: acceptance rate is 10%, average SAT is 1485, ACT is 32 or 33
Vanderbilt: acceptance rate is 11%, average SAT is 1475, ACT is 33
USMA: acceptance rate is 10%, average SAT is 1300, ACT is 28/29

I am wondering what accounts for this anomaly. The other colleges look for extra-curriculars, sports participation, and GPA's just like the academies. The only thing I can think of is the CFA, but is that enough to cause such a difference only being weighted 10%? Originally I thought it might have something to do with the congressional nomination process, but here are the stats of the Coast Guard Academy (which does not require a nomination):

USCGA: Acceptance rate is 16%, average SAT is approx. 1290, ACT is approx 28/29

To be clear, I am not disparaging or downplaying the prestige of the academies in any way. I am just asking because I do not understand the disparity between the test scores. Essentially, I do not want to have a false sense of security if my test scores are at or above the average. I want to know the scores I should shoot for in order to be competitive. I have a feeling that they are far above the posted averages. What am I missing?

There are 2nd level of details that are not revealed by this data:
1. Did the students take prep SAT prep classes, what is the percentage?
2. What is the percentage of first-time-taking-without-any-prep?

It is believed that SAT > 1300 without any prep is actually very good indicator of strong cognitive and academic capacity.

The bottom line, the measurement is not by the level at coming in, but at the level at existing, for which the goal and result of SAs and the elite schools are way different.

 

[prairie full moon]

The Common App does not just "click and go" to many of the top schools, as specific short answer and additional essays are required for those schools. Some may also ask for additional materials (i.e. Columbia with a research abstract, etc.) to be submitted as well.

While the Common App does take the repetition out of the boilerplate info to be provided, applying to the many of the most selective schools is still a huge commitment of time and information wrangling/presentation.

My cadet applied to schools via Common App and is currently at West Point. I can tell you from observing the process that the Common App is a walk in the park compared to the West Point Application. It doesn't even matter that they count "opened files". You do not get to proceed with additional aspects of the application unless you pass certain mileposts.

 

[jl123]

did a little of research on this and West Point gets such a low acceptance rate because it counts something as small as filling out the candidate questionnaire as applying. It really doesn't help that the questionnaire is free too and that West Point sends out college mail just like any other university. There are tons of people who just fill this out and never actually do the rest of the application process but West Point still considers them as applicants.

Your research is incorrect. West Point does not count the candidate questionnaire as an application for admissions reporting statistics. Each year several thousand complete the questionnaire, but are not included in the class profile.

For example, the class profile on the website lists 12,294 applicant files started, yet every year there are 15,000+ files in the candidate database. 2020 had 15,628 and 2016 had 16,354.

There is a vetting process that occurs after the candidate questionnaire to determine what constitutes an applicant. I question whether the Ivy's and other elite colleges are as rigorous in their data collection.

 

[TheRightStuff]

My cadet applied to schools via Common App and is currently at West Point. I can tell you from observing the process that the Common App is a walk in the park compared to the West Point Application. It doesn't even matter that they count "opened files". You do not get to proceed with additional aspects of the application unless you pass certain mileposts.

I didn't say anything about the complexity of the Common App vs. the West Point app. For this topic, it is also not relevant that your cadet is "currently at West Point" unless you are implying that your familiarity with the West Point app is somehow greater than others as proven by your cadet being accepted.

You also don't need to lecture me about both apps as I am very familiar with each of the SA apps, the Common App, the Coalition App and the standalone school apps.

I never said a word about "opened files" or "proceeding" on with a WP app in my post.


Perhaps you should read more carefully next time.

 

[justdoit19]

I didn't say anything about the complexity of the Common App vs. the West Point app. For this topic, it is also not relevant that your cadet is "currently at West Point" unless you are implying that your familiarity with the West Point app is somehow greater than others as proven by your cadet being accepted.

You also don't need to lecture me about both apps as I am very familiar with each of the SA apps, the Common App, the Coalition App and the standalone school apps.

I never said a word about "opened files" or "proceeding" on with a WP app in my post.


Perhaps you should read more carefully next time.

All are welcome here!! This poster is not attacking you personally, but rather adding to the conversation from their experience/viewpoint. As we all do. But for some reason you feel the need to demean/chastise/scold them. The poster, as I read it, was adding to the conversation. Not arguing or debating. Nor inferring their viewpoint is better bc they have cadet. Nor do I read any “lecturing” to you about xxx…but rather expressing and adding their contributions to the topic.

People are free to add to the convo, and SHOULD so people can learn. Convo ebbs and flows…just like any convo. It’s normal. It happens. Hopefully we can stop with the scolding as it’s embarrassing. And rude. And not nice. And makes people hesitate to post. And that’s not good.

Peace
Love
Good Juju

 

[TheRightStuff]

All are welcome here!! This poster is not attacking you personally, but rather adding to the conversation from their experience/viewpoint. As we all do. But for some reason you feel the need to demean/chastise/scold them. The poster, as I read it, was adding to the conversation. Not arguing or debating. Nor inferring their viewpoint is better bc they have cadet. Nor do I read any “lecturing” to you about xxx…but rather expressing and adding their contributions to the topic.

People are free to add to the convo, and SHOULD so people can learn. Convo ebbs and flows…just like any convo. It’s normal. It happens. Hopefully we can stop with the scolding as it’s embarrassing. And rude. And not nice. And makes people hesitate to post. And that’s not good.

Thanks but no thanks, as it was never said they were not welcome, etc. My post was quoted and it had almost no relevance whatsoever to what was said by that person. If you are going to quote something in that context, then quote the earlier posts specifically relevant to what was being discussed about the Common App, WP app, etc.

I appreciate that your alternate reality is full of hugs, unicorns and rainbows, but when you venture out of it keep in mind that much of life consists of the deep end of the pool. You being an apologist for people that get their careless posts, comments and whatnot addressed with a dose of reality doesn't do them (or you) any good with swimming or treading water in that deep end of the pool.

 

[A1Janitor]

 

[Heatherg21]

As I understand it the purpose of the Forum is to aid and assist those seeking appointments to the service academies. Most of them are still in high school and yes, will make mistakes, leap to conclusions that are incorrect and make grammatical errors.

Many on this forum tactfully and artfully guide the posters to making better posts, arguments and encouraging them to do more research and work on their own.

While life is indeed spent in the deep end of the pool I don’t see how throwing them in on a forum is beneficial.

 

[TheRightStuff]

Yep, I was quoted for a position that I never stated and get grief for calling that out - in a post by an ADULT might I add ("My cadet applied to schools via Common App and is currently at West Point." - clearly an adult).

For all those interested, swimmies/floaties will be for sale tomorrow at 0900 at the BX/PX at a deep discount, along with wet naps, Vaseline and Diaper Genies!

 

[ALF648]

I started to write a response when the friendly “new posts” reminder popped up. Having read the most recent posts I will shorten my response
The best advice my DS or I received here is focus on yourself, excel to the greatest degree you personally can and pursue admission with as much rigor and discipline as you can muster. Try as hard as you can to be above the 75%- in GPA, tests, CFA…. For SAs the hardest competition is frequently in the applicant’s district so one local superstar makes all “averages” and acceptance ratios moot.