Cadet Suspended from West Point after getting beaten by Singers entourage
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The wheels of justice have certainly turned slowly on this case! I am glad to see that common sense has finally prevailed and that the true offenders in this offense are going to be charged. Besides the charge of aggravated assault I hope that HPD will consider a charge of filing a false report. The more charges the merrier.
Somebody please tell me that this latest development will be taken into consideration by the folks at WP. I don't want to hear that anything bad has happened to the cadet while he is deployed... probably just wishful thinking on my part that the army will re-review the facts.
Somebody please tell me that this latest development will be taken into consideration by the folks at WP. I don't want to hear that anything bad has happened to the cadet while he is deployed... probably just wishful thinking on my part that the army will re-review the facts.
I can't see why the USMA would consider this latest "development". Clearly the USMA "completed a thorough investigation regarding the incident". I'm sure a "thorough investigation" constitutes far more than just accepting the version of events the USMA heard during a telephone call from "someone" in the HPD.
"The U.S. Military Academy completed a thorough investigation regarding the incident that occurred at the Houston Airport on March 11, 2011, involving Cadet Richard King. Following this investigation, the Academy chain of command took appropriate administrative action in accordance with Army Regulation 210-26."
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I can't see why the USMA would consider this latest "development". Clearly the USMA "completed a thorough investigation regarding the incident". I'm sure a "thorough investigation" constitutes far more than just accepting the version of events the USMA heard during a telephone call from "someone" in the HPD.
"The U.S. Military Academy completed a thorough investigation regarding the incident that occurred at the Houston Airport on March 11, 2011, involving Cadet Richard King. Following this investigation, the Academy chain of command took appropriate administrative action in accordance with Army Regulation 210-26."
You are kidding right? Up until this decision by the HPD to charge the two members of the entourage the cadet was a suspect in a felony! He is no longer a potential defendant so I would consider that a "new development." The Harris County DA's office apparently believes the video and the cadet's version of the offense. My point is that WP decided the cadet's fate such a long time ago, and in light of these new charges they should reconsider their decision because everything that happened to the cadet, at no fault of his own, is now a non-factor. Wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing. He was judged guilty of what?
And as far as HPD is concerned. Their media person has announced to the world that warrants of arrest have been issued. I have a tendency to believe them since they are the investigating authority in this offense. C'mon give the cadet a break!
"The U.S. Military Academy completed a thorough investigation regarding the incident that occurred at the Houston Airport on March 11, 2011, involving Cadet Richard King. Following this investigation, the Academy chain of command took appropriate administrative action in accordance with Army Regulation 210-26."
You are kidding right? Up until this decision by the HPD to charge the two members of the entourage the cadet was a suspect in a felony! He is no longer a potential defendant so I would consider that a "new development." The Harris County DA's office apparently believes the video and the cadet's version of the offense. My point is that WP decided the cadet's fate such a long time ago, and in light of these new charges they should reconsider their decision because everything that happened to the cadet, at no fault of his own, is now a non-factor. Wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing. He was judged guilty of what?
And as far as HPD is concerned. Their media person has announced to the world that warrants of arrest have been issued. I have a tendency to believe them since they are the investigating authority in this offense. C'mon give the cadet a break!
scoutpilot
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What you fail to realize is the reality of West Point. The cadet may not have committed a felony. But the entire event is highly embarrassing for WP. In reality, you will always pay for shaming the institution. He's going to pay.
Christcorp
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JMC: And you know that what you've read is all that there is ....... because.......?????
Based on your "Feelings", West Point was irresponsible; didn't wait for all the facts before deciding this young man's future as a cadet; and the cadet was obviously a pansy, because he quietly accepted West Point's decision with almost no appeal or argument by him or his lawyer.
It's obvious that we waste a lot of time and money on investigation, hearings, and boards. It's obvious that all we need is for the media to do their fine investigative reporting, report their fabulous findings, and then the entire story and truth will be known. What was West Point thinking? On the other hand, what was this cadet's lawyer thinking?
It's obvious that this cadet was a model cadet; a saint; and the academy had some personal vendetta against him. And the cadet had just such a high level of honor and integrity, that he would never even question or fight such a decision with West Point. He obviously had too much respect for the academy institution. He'd rather simply just accept their decision without question. I don't know how any academy could let such a person with such a high level of integrity go.
On a more serious side, what do you mean by:
"I don't want to hear that anything bad has happened to the cadet while he is deployed... probably just wishful thinking on my part that the army will re-review the facts."
1. Is it "More Acceptable" that something bad happen to someone else who is deployed because they "Aren't/Weren't" an academy cadet?
2. You're quite cynical about the Army, because you believe they acted without knowing the facts, and probably don't want to know the facts.
I honestly hope you're not part of the Army, West Point, or our military. A big part of makes our military the best in the world, is our mutual respect of each other and those appointed over us. "The Army" isn't some inanimate object. "The Army" is made up of REAL PEOPLE. When you say it's wishful thinking on your part that "The Army" would care about the truth, you're saying that you don't believe that "Army Personnel" care about hearing the truth. I'll tell you right now, that I respect your "Right" to hold such opinions and express them; but I DON'T RESPECT your opinion at all.
Based on your "Feelings", West Point was irresponsible; didn't wait for all the facts before deciding this young man's future as a cadet; and the cadet was obviously a pansy, because he quietly accepted West Point's decision with almost no appeal or argument by him or his lawyer.
It's obvious that we waste a lot of time and money on investigation, hearings, and boards. It's obvious that all we need is for the media to do their fine investigative reporting, report their fabulous findings, and then the entire story and truth will be known. What was West Point thinking? On the other hand, what was this cadet's lawyer thinking?
It's obvious that this cadet was a model cadet; a saint; and the academy had some personal vendetta against him. And the cadet had just such a high level of honor and integrity, that he would never even question or fight such a decision with West Point. He obviously had too much respect for the academy institution. He'd rather simply just accept their decision without question. I don't know how any academy could let such a person with such a high level of integrity go.
On a more serious side, what do you mean by:
"I don't want to hear that anything bad has happened to the cadet while he is deployed... probably just wishful thinking on my part that the army will re-review the facts."
1. Is it "More Acceptable" that something bad happen to someone else who is deployed because they "Aren't/Weren't" an academy cadet?
2. You're quite cynical about the Army, because you believe they acted without knowing the facts, and probably don't want to know the facts.
I honestly hope you're not part of the Army, West Point, or our military. A big part of makes our military the best in the world, is our mutual respect of each other and those appointed over us. "The Army" isn't some inanimate object. "The Army" is made up of REAL PEOPLE. When you say it's wishful thinking on your part that "The Army" would care about the truth, you're saying that you don't believe that "Army Personnel" care about hearing the truth. I'll tell you right now, that I respect your "Right" to hold such opinions and express them; but I DON'T RESPECT your opinion at all.
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I'm just wondering...thinking out loud here...
WP was very quick to take action and ScoutPilot is dead on in his assessment about "... embarrass...you will pay." That's NOT uncommon in the military, I don't care what branch of service.
But I'm wondering...and perhaps I missed it long ago and am too lazy to research it...but was he a "conduct/academic/athletic" problem already? If so...being involved in ANYTHING might be enough to see him sent out...
It that's the case and he performs WELL "in the ranks..." then this development might help him return to WP in the future.
Just some random thoughts.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
WP was very quick to take action and ScoutPilot is dead on in his assessment about "... embarrass...you will pay." That's NOT uncommon in the military, I don't care what branch of service.
But I'm wondering...and perhaps I missed it long ago and am too lazy to research it...but was he a "conduct/academic/athletic" problem already? If so...being involved in ANYTHING might be enough to see him sent out...
It that's the case and he performs WELL "in the ranks..." then this development might help him return to WP in the future.
Just some random thoughts.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
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As I have stated many, many times on this thread I know nothing about the army or WP. I was in the boy scouts until I was 14 and that is about it. If I didn't respect our military I would not allow my spouse to be an officer, my oldest daughter to have accepted an army ROTC scolarship, allow my son to be a midshipman and my middle daughter to be a doolie. So I guess I respect it. We live that life every day and twice on Sundays.
And no, I don't want to see anyone get hurt whether they were in a SA or not BUT if somebody ain't supposed to be somewhere at a given time and place such as Afghanistan intead of in class and gets hurt then it is more tragic to me.
My point CC is that if the cadet missed his appointment with destiny at Bush Intercontinental that day would WP have called him at home because of some things that happened on campus prior to this incident and said, "hey get ready to deploy?" "You've embarassed us." No. It all came about because of the assault. I obviously don't know everything but it is my nature to take up for the little guy. And why hasn't he put up a fight? Check all the news interviews he has done for the Houston media. He is also gonna do whatever his lawyer says to do and that guy is thinking major restitution.
Things have changed since WP made their decision. The facts have changed. He is no longer suspect in anything that happened that day so he was an innocent bystander. You are either a witness or a suspect...
Again, HPD is not charging the cadet with anything so he has gone from suspect to victim. And WP did not wait until the criminal investigation was over! What media are you talking about. Folks are getting ready to go to jail! Yeah! Justice has prevailed!
How do I keep getting drawn into this thread! Hey gimme that t-shirt back CC! Can I still come to Thudgate? And to be frank I don't really care if you like my opinion or not. That's why this is such a great country! I am 10-7. (out of service)
Christcorp
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I am so GLAD to hear that you:
ALLOW your Wife to be in the military and serve her country, and ALLOW your "Adult Children" to attend military academies and ROTC in College. They should all feel honored that you "ALLOW" them to do this.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but you are giving opinions about a military investigation, that you know absolutely NOTHING about. Other than what you admittedly have learned from the media. Sorry; but as "Cynical" and "Dis-trustworthy" as you are about the Army and West Point, I am MORE Cynical about the media.
And sorry about the first paragraph, but if my wife ever TRULY felt, that the only reason I was able to serve in the military was because "She ALLOWED" me to..... Let's just say, we probably would have NOT been married 29 years. And while I may have given my children MANY opinions on what I thought was best, their choices are THEIRS. They aren't choices that "I ALLOWED". I hope you simply used a "Poor Choice of Words".
And yes, you are ALWAYS WELCOMED at Thudgate. Mike.....
ALLOW your Wife to be in the military and serve her country, and ALLOW your "Adult Children" to attend military academies and ROTC in College. They should all feel honored that you "ALLOW" them to do this.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but you are giving opinions about a military investigation, that you know absolutely NOTHING about. Other than what you admittedly have learned from the media. Sorry; but as "Cynical" and "Dis-trustworthy" as you are about the Army and West Point, I am MORE Cynical about the media.
And sorry about the first paragraph, but if my wife ever TRULY felt, that the only reason I was able to serve in the military was because "She ALLOWED" me to..... Let's just say, we probably would have NOT been married 29 years. And while I may have given my children MANY opinions on what I thought was best, their choices are THEIRS. They aren't choices that "I ALLOWED". I hope you simply used a "Poor Choice of Words".
And yes, you are ALWAYS WELCOMED at Thudgate. Mike.....
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I don't think that I am being "cynical" and "distrustworthy" (is that a real word?) about anything. If worlds did not collide in Houston we would not be discussing this now. I wonder what WP could possibly know that the HPD does not know? Does WP send a CID person to Houston to meet the local detective? Do they compare notes? I have never seen a military investigator in my building. The HPD just now made a decision on who they were going to charge! Maybe the cadet was a disaster on campus BUT if there was no altercation in Houston would he have been disenrolled? No, he would have just gone on his merry way. Maybe Scoutpilot is right about embarassing the academy. Why couldn't WP just wait until the cadet was either charged or exonerated? That's what usually happens. As an example - "University XY was asked to comment on the criminal case involving athlete A and party B however we don't discuss open investigations until the criminal case has run it's course." We read comments like that in the paper all the time. This was such a high profile case that maybe nobody should have picked sides until the dust had settled. Would it have hurt anything to wait a little while?
The other side of the coin is why are you so sure that WP did everything right? People with the best of intentions make mistakes. In my world, people are being cleared by DNA evidence after being sent to the pen and seving 20 years! I just finished reading a book written by a mom whose son had been killed in combat. Her son had been awarded the Silver Star. Nothing that was reported to the mom by her son's service branch turned out to be true. Things that seem so clear cut at the beginning have a tendency to come back and bite you in the butt. All I am saying is that now that the police investigation has been finished maybe the decision WP made could be re-visited. Maybe they could do it over lunch one day.
Why do you think that the kid did anything wrong?
As far as your personal opinion about my allowing my family to do something. Why don't you just leave them out of it because it is really none of your business. I probably could have said no to all of them when they decided on a life in the military but they would have done it anyway... and I have to admit it has been a very rewarding life! If I could live my life over I would have gone that route. And yes, when my three juvenile children came to me and said they wanted to join the military and/or go to a SA I guess I did allow them to follow their dreams. That's what daddies do. When my spouse, at age 50 wanted to be a doctor in the military I allowed her to follow her dream even though it took her away from her practice, her patients, her family and affected our income. When she wanted to be a liasion officer for a SA I guess I allowed her to do it even though it has taken her away from her practice, her patients and her family. My youngest daughter, an athlete, and also a juvenile at age 15, is being recruited by a SA and I would allow her to go even though she could get a scholarship to any D1 university she wanted, so yeah, allow is the right word. As parents our children come to us for guidance and I say yes and no to them all the time. When I say "yes" I guess I am allowing them to go do something but maybe that's just the way things are in my house..
And please stop capitalizing! You scare me when you do that!
The other side of the coin is why are you so sure that WP did everything right? People with the best of intentions make mistakes. In my world, people are being cleared by DNA evidence after being sent to the pen and seving 20 years! I just finished reading a book written by a mom whose son had been killed in combat. Her son had been awarded the Silver Star. Nothing that was reported to the mom by her son's service branch turned out to be true. Things that seem so clear cut at the beginning have a tendency to come back and bite you in the butt. All I am saying is that now that the police investigation has been finished maybe the decision WP made could be re-visited. Maybe they could do it over lunch one day.
Why do you think that the kid did anything wrong?
As far as your personal opinion about my allowing my family to do something. Why don't you just leave them out of it because it is really none of your business. I probably could have said no to all of them when they decided on a life in the military but they would have done it anyway... and I have to admit it has been a very rewarding life! If I could live my life over I would have gone that route. And yes, when my three juvenile children came to me and said they wanted to join the military and/or go to a SA I guess I did allow them to follow their dreams. That's what daddies do. When my spouse, at age 50 wanted to be a doctor in the military I allowed her to follow her dream even though it took her away from her practice, her patients, her family and affected our income. When she wanted to be a liasion officer for a SA I guess I allowed her to do it even though it has taken her away from her practice, her patients and her family. My youngest daughter, an athlete, and also a juvenile at age 15, is being recruited by a SA and I would allow her to go even though she could get a scholarship to any D1 university she wanted, so yeah, allow is the right word. As parents our children come to us for guidance and I say yes and no to them all the time. When I say "yes" I guess I am allowing them to go do something but maybe that's just the way things are in my house..
And please stop capitalizing! You scare me when you do that!
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I believethat I agree with what I think Christcorp is trying to point out here : we don't have a clue what's really happening here. We only "know" what interested parties on all sides have publicized . USMA on the other hand has said that it has already investigated the incident and taken action. Legally and as a matter of principle they WILL NOT COMMENT on the elements that led them to their decision. We don't know what this Cadet's prior record was (though if you read thru this there have been a few insinuations from fellow cadets that might lead you to believe that this guy has been skating on the fine edge for a while), nor do we know the "truth" of what's happening legally- we have the public legal kabuki of suit and countersuit. I'm willing to believe that USMA in fact have more of a clue than what's being shown on "The View" or "Oprah" or being published via the internet.
I am certain that expecting every Military administrative decision to be fully explained and explored publically is going to put you well on the road to frustration. That is not in the best interests of either the Army or the individual soldier. At some point you need to come to the realization that the Internet and TV don't tell the whole story; that the Army will not and should not release the whole story and this was not a legal action but an administrative one; that there may in fact be a larger picture that this young man is a part of - and of which we know nothing about.
Personally- I take the Army at it's word- that this kid was separated from USMA because he did not live up to the ideals and standards of the Military Academy. I assume that they had their reasons and as they already published- they did an investigation before taking this step (what the scope of that investigation was I do not know - NOR should I or you). I also understand that fundamentally- we want USMA graduates who don't exist at the lowest common denominator of conduct. Legal convictions are not the sole determinant of acceptable conduct and I believe that someone in the Commandant's office looked at this Cadet's three year record before deciding what steps to take in this kid's case. What they decided was that right now- this young man does not exhibit the conduct they want for a USMA grad and about to be 2lt in the US Army. I certainly don't have access to the records to contradict that, nor I suspect does anyone else on this forum.
I'm not posting anymore on this- it's all speculation by everyone here and none of us will get the full story - and we shouldn't.
I am certain that expecting every Military administrative decision to be fully explained and explored publically is going to put you well on the road to frustration. That is not in the best interests of either the Army or the individual soldier. At some point you need to come to the realization that the Internet and TV don't tell the whole story; that the Army will not and should not release the whole story and this was not a legal action but an administrative one; that there may in fact be a larger picture that this young man is a part of - and of which we know nothing about.
Personally- I take the Army at it's word- that this kid was separated from USMA because he did not live up to the ideals and standards of the Military Academy. I assume that they had their reasons and as they already published- they did an investigation before taking this step (what the scope of that investigation was I do not know - NOR should I or you). I also understand that fundamentally- we want USMA graduates who don't exist at the lowest common denominator of conduct. Legal convictions are not the sole determinant of acceptable conduct and I believe that someone in the Commandant's office looked at this Cadet's three year record before deciding what steps to take in this kid's case. What they decided was that right now- this young man does not exhibit the conduct they want for a USMA grad and about to be 2lt in the US Army. I certainly don't have access to the records to contradict that, nor I suspect does anyone else on this forum.
I'm not posting anymore on this- it's all speculation by everyone here and none of us will get the full story - and we shouldn't.
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Christcorp
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Well, you're the one who brought up your family, and that you "allowed" them to join the military. I agree they aren't part of this.
As for West point and the cadet in question, I admit that West Point is not perfect, and could possibly have made a wrong decision. But I also know, that for an individual to be dismissed from the academy on the "first" offense, especially a senior, it would have had to of been something very serious. e.g. drugs, felony, etc... Therefor, I have doubt that this is the first incident for this particular cadet. The Army has invested a lot of money and time into this individual. They wouldn't dismiss him so lightly. As I've said from the beginning, there must be more to the story.
But my only point in this thread, as well as a similar thread I started, is that too many people have opinions under the belief that they know ALL the facts. My point is; I doubt highly that you know all the facts. That the only facts you know; if in fact they are facts; are what the media has printed. I believe that there are some parts of this situation that you don't know about.
Remember; you were the one who made the recent comment that based on recent media reports, that the army should reconsider reinstatement of this ex-cadet to West Point. Therefor, it is you who believes that you now know and possess the whole truth and know all the facts. I'm simply saying, that I doubt very much that you know all the facts.
This isn't personal. It isn't an attack. It's simply a difference of opinions. You are correct. This cadet could be a total screw up; on his last straw; and had this incident not happened, he'd still have his last straw. On the other hand, he could have had a history of alcohol related problems; the academy with all their 2nd chances could have told the cadet that they wouldn't tolerate any more alcohol related incidents; and even though in this incident he may have been innocent, he admits having had alcohol at the airport bar. Therefor alcohol is still part of the incident, and therefor they punished him based on that. This isn't even a speculation on my part. Simply an "example" of something that we don't know the whole story about. And "THAT" (sorry for the caps) is what my entire point is. we do not know the whole story. Therefor, I don't believe that we need to be 2nd guessing what West point should or shouldn't be doing.
As for West point and the cadet in question, I admit that West Point is not perfect, and could possibly have made a wrong decision. But I also know, that for an individual to be dismissed from the academy on the "first" offense, especially a senior, it would have had to of been something very serious. e.g. drugs, felony, etc... Therefor, I have doubt that this is the first incident for this particular cadet. The Army has invested a lot of money and time into this individual. They wouldn't dismiss him so lightly. As I've said from the beginning, there must be more to the story.
But my only point in this thread, as well as a similar thread I started, is that too many people have opinions under the belief that they know ALL the facts. My point is; I doubt highly that you know all the facts. That the only facts you know; if in fact they are facts; are what the media has printed. I believe that there are some parts of this situation that you don't know about.
Remember; you were the one who made the recent comment that based on recent media reports, that the army should reconsider reinstatement of this ex-cadet to West Point. Therefor, it is you who believes that you now know and possess the whole truth and know all the facts. I'm simply saying, that I doubt very much that you know all the facts.
This isn't personal. It isn't an attack. It's simply a difference of opinions. You are correct. This cadet could be a total screw up; on his last straw; and had this incident not happened, he'd still have his last straw. On the other hand, he could have had a history of alcohol related problems; the academy with all their 2nd chances could have told the cadet that they wouldn't tolerate any more alcohol related incidents; and even though in this incident he may have been innocent, he admits having had alcohol at the airport bar. Therefor alcohol is still part of the incident, and therefor they punished him based on that. This isn't even a speculation on my part. Simply an "example" of something that we don't know the whole story about. And "THAT" (sorry for the caps) is what my entire point is. we do not know the whole story. Therefor, I don't believe that we need to be 2nd guessing what West point should or shouldn't be doing.
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I am sure that WP did a great job investigating this incident. I believe them! And CC - my light bulb has finally lit up. I can see your point about an alcohol violation if already having been counseled about it. Maybe the kid needed to be be disenrolled. All I am saying is that in the final analysis the cadet did not do anything wrong in Texas. If he would have stopped in the restroom on the way out of the terminal this never would have happened. This has nothing to do with WP, the army, or the media. My belief in what happened that day has never waivered and the HPD has looked at all the evidence they have and stated that the kid is a victim. The shock wave from this incident will follow him for the rest of his life. I guess that I am just naive in believing that a dismissal of charges will make everything go away.
Bruno and CC. We can banter back and forth on this issue forever but we will all still believe what we want to believe. I guess that I just want to see a happy ending here, and that will not happen. I have this vision of somebody running down a hallway with a piece of paper in his hand and bursting into the superindendents office and shouting, "He's innocent! He can come back to school." That's part of my problem as an investigator. I relate too much to my victims.
Thanks for the lively discussions. I am going to be a lurker for a while. CC - look for me at PW!
Bruno and CC. We can banter back and forth on this issue forever but we will all still believe what we want to believe. I guess that I just want to see a happy ending here, and that will not happen. I have this vision of somebody running down a hallway with a piece of paper in his hand and bursting into the superindendents office and shouting, "He's innocent! He can come back to school." That's part of my problem as an investigator. I relate too much to my victims.
Thanks for the lively discussions. I am going to be a lurker for a while. CC - look for me at PW!
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Pima
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JMPO, but I think we truly lost sight of this entire issue. That is a cadet's life has been changed forever, regardless of the outcome.
As CC has pointed out we do not have the entire facts and we need to acknowledge that issue.
I think some of us feel for this cadet and harbor anger towards HPD and Ms. LaBelle. However, whatever our opinion is, that is what it is, an opinion.
Honestly, if you believe in fate/destiny/karma, you also must believe that it was their path to not be commissioned from WP.
As a spouse and now a Mom, I have answered the same old question since 1986...how can you deal with him flying, aren't you afraid of him dieing?
Yes, I am afraid, but I also accept the fact that if he is meant to die on that day, I could lock him in a closet and he would still die.
This is the path for the cadet, and IMPO, even if this altercation didn't occur, something else would.
JMC I do understand your feeling regarding the word "allowing", but I also get CC's point. I think you selected the wrong word to support your emotions. SUPPORTING would have been a more fitting choice. That is how I view your post. You weren't controlling them by "allowing" them, you were "supporting" them by saying go for it, I am in for the ride.
The problem with forums is intonation can never be felt through a post. Sometimes we need to take the time to give the benefit of the doubt to the poster. Easy to write, hard to do. I hope you don't lurk, and remain an active member. CC is like Bullet, to the point (must be that AF brain washing
), however, whenever they make their point it is never like me (emotional) it is factual. The reason this site works is because it has posters that are Ying to their Yang.
We only are able to mentor these young candidates/cadets by allowing them to see both sides, and through that they will grow to be the exceptional officers that we as a society need.
As CC has pointed out we do not have the entire facts and we need to acknowledge that issue.
I think some of us feel for this cadet and harbor anger towards HPD and Ms. LaBelle. However, whatever our opinion is, that is what it is, an opinion.
Honestly, if you believe in fate/destiny/karma, you also must believe that it was their path to not be commissioned from WP.
As a spouse and now a Mom, I have answered the same old question since 1986...how can you deal with him flying, aren't you afraid of him dieing?
Yes, I am afraid, but I also accept the fact that if he is meant to die on that day, I could lock him in a closet and he would still die.
This is the path for the cadet, and IMPO, even if this altercation didn't occur, something else would.
JMC I do understand your feeling regarding the word "allowing", but I also get CC's point. I think you selected the wrong word to support your emotions. SUPPORTING would have been a more fitting choice. That is how I view your post. You weren't controlling them by "allowing" them, you were "supporting" them by saying go for it, I am in for the ride.
The problem with forums is intonation can never be felt through a post. Sometimes we need to take the time to give the benefit of the doubt to the poster. Easy to write, hard to do. I hope you don't lurk, and remain an active member. CC is like Bullet, to the point (must be that AF brain washing
), however, whenever they make their point it is never like me (emotional) it is factual. The reason this site works is because it has posters that are Ying to their Yang.We only are able to mentor these young candidates/cadets by allowing them to see both sides, and through that they will grow to be the exceptional officers that we as a society need.
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Pima - well stated and "supported" would have been a much better word. I will never regret the decisions made by my family. In the end a young life has been changed by circumstances beyond his control and that just bugs the heck out of me. Thanks for directing everybody's focus where it should be!
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
In the end his life has been changed, but only time will tell if it was for better or worse.
As CC pointed out we only know what the media has released to the public with their slant. Nobody here or in the media knows if a part of him was relieved to leave USMA, even though he will have to serve for a limited time as an enlisted member.
Let's be brutally honest, not every cadet enters an SA wanting to make it a career, some enter as seeing it as a "free education" and count the days until they can leave when they raise their right hand to take the oath.
CC, You, me, and everyone else do not know which pile he falls in. In essence, this may have been the best thing for him. Ms. LaBelle, will probably settle out of court, especially since her entourage are now the only people that have been criminally charged and with that maybe he will use the money to attend law school to become a defense attorney specializing in military law.
Maybe that is his path.
To me the true sign of being a leader is what you do when the unexpected was delivered to your doorstep. If he can make lemonade out of lemons, the Army loss a great member, if he pittles this opportunity away, the Army is better off without him.
I get the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty, but I also feel that maybe the media is playing society, and they have decided to use the military (WP) as the bad guys...shocker, I know!
As CC pointed out we only know what the media has released to the public with their slant. Nobody here or in the media knows if a part of him was relieved to leave USMA, even though he will have to serve for a limited time as an enlisted member.
Let's be brutally honest, not every cadet enters an SA wanting to make it a career, some enter as seeing it as a "free education" and count the days until they can leave when they raise their right hand to take the oath.
CC, You, me, and everyone else do not know which pile he falls in. In essence, this may have been the best thing for him. Ms. LaBelle, will probably settle out of court, especially since her entourage are now the only people that have been criminally charged and with that maybe he will use the money to attend law school to become a defense attorney specializing in military law.
Maybe that is his path.
To me the true sign of being a leader is what you do when the unexpected was delivered to your doorstep. If he can make lemonade out of lemons, the Army loss a great member, if he pittles this opportunity away, the Army is better off without him.
I get the benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty, but I also feel that maybe the media is playing society, and they have decided to use the military (WP) as the bad guys...shocker, I know!
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
In the end his life has been changed, but only time will tell if it was for better or worse.
As CC pointed out we only know what the media has released to the public with their slant. Nobody here or in the media knows if a part of him was relieved to leave USMA, even though he will have to serve for a limited time as an enlisted member.
Let's be brutally honest, not every cadet enters an SA wanting to make it a career, some enter as seeing it as a "free education" and count the days until they can leave when they raise their right hand to take the oath.
CC, You, me, and everyone else do not know which pile he falls in. In essence, this may have been the best thing for him. Ms. LaBelle, will probably settle out of court, especially since her entourage are now the only people that have been criminally charged and with that maybe he will use the money to attend law school to become a defense attorney specializing in military law.
Maybe that is his path.
To me the true sign of being a leader is what you do when the unexpected was delivered to your doorstep. If he can make lemonade out of lemons, the Army loss a great member, if he pittles this opportunity away, the Army is better off without him.
As CC pointed out we only know what the media has released to the public with their slant. Nobody here or in the media knows if a part of him was relieved to leave USMA, even though he will have to serve for a limited time as an enlisted member.
Let's be brutally honest, not every cadet enters an SA wanting to make it a career, some enter as seeing it as a "free education" and count the days until they can leave when they raise their right hand to take the oath.
CC, You, me, and everyone else do not know which pile he falls in. In essence, this may have been the best thing for him. Ms. LaBelle, will probably settle out of court, especially since her entourage are now the only people that have been criminally charged and with that maybe he will use the money to attend law school to become a defense attorney specializing in military law.
Maybe that is his path.
To me the true sign of being a leader is what you do when the unexpected was delivered to your doorstep. If he can make lemonade out of lemons, the Army loss a great member, if he pittles this opportunity away, the Army is better off without him.
Dixieland
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2010
- Messages
- 1,281
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