I have a question for Pima or some other smart person: My son is a senior in high school. He is applying to study business at several universities, all of which are host universities for AFROTC. (GPA: 3.1, SAT(CR+M): 1230). He has not applied for an AFROTC scholarship, since his parents would prefer that he be able to walk away from it at the end of his sophomore year, if he should choose to. I’m pretty sure, though, that he won’t walk away unless forced to. My question is based upon what his high school AFJROTC commander told us: He said that in the middle of the sophomore year of college, my son will be assessed to determine whether he is invited (or not invited) to take part in summer training. Only those who take part can continue in AFROTC in the junior year. Further, the only ones who are invited are those who are offered scholarships for the junior and senior years. In other words, if he fails to snag a scholarship for his last two years, he is asked to leave AFROTC. I asked the commander to clarify this (twice) and he confirmed that only scholarship students are continued on AFROTC for junior and senior years. This information is a bit different than what I’ve read in this forum. We need to know how this actually works in order to choose a college. Should my son go for a college that is less competitive, in order to get better grades and get a scholarship; or should he go to a more competitive college, perhaps suffer lower grades, but get a better education?
Can you commission without a scholarship?
- Thread starter Chalima
- Start date
-
- Tags
- afjrotc scholarship
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2010
- Messages
- 16,005
While Jcc123 is correct the information you got from the AFJROTC commander is essentially correct. One does not need a scholarship to commission, but one does need to be "invited" to continue past their sophomore year.
Regarding your final question, your son should attend the college he thinks he'll most enjoy and is the best fit for him. If he's happy in the non-AFROTC aspects of his college life he is most likely to do well in AFROTC.
I'll leave it to Pima or others to comment on aspects of contracting, stipend, etc. BTW, one of the kids in my son's high school class year, who lived in our neighborhood, commissioned via AFROTC without a scholarship. He is now serving in Korea and loving it.
Regarding your final question, your son should attend the college he thinks he'll most enjoy and is the best fit for him. If he's happy in the non-AFROTC aspects of his college life he is most likely to do well in AFROTC.
I'll leave it to Pima or others to comment on aspects of contracting, stipend, etc. BTW, one of the kids in my son's high school class year, who lived in our neighborhood, commissioned via AFROTC without a scholarship. He is now serving in Korea and loving it.
My son is a third year in AF ROTC. No you dont need a scholarship. It would be of course to nice to get one. Before then end of the second year, you are invited to Field Training in (summer) Alabama and Mississippi. If you pass, you get go to the third year and now you are pretty much committed to the Air Force when you graduate. Everyone at my son's detachment was invited to go. I hear that isnt necessarily normal and that in many other detachments, not everyone is invited. Once third year starts, they get a 450 stipend, $225 in the beginning of the month and another at the end of the month. It goes to 500 or so during Senior Year. Scholarship arent relevant. Some kids get them and some dont.
Thank you JCC123 and kinnem and Hurley and anybody else who subsequently replies to my question. My guess from your answers is that the AFJROTC commander meant to say “stipend”, but instead said “scholarship”. In other words, without a stipend a student cannot continue in AFROTC beyond his sophomore year. (Still – a stipend of over $4,000 a year does kind of look like a scholarship.) My question simplifies then to “What should he do about choosing a college that will maximize his chances of getting the invitation to summer training?” The advice from kinnem about being happy in college is great and is probably 90% of the answer. Still I wonder if there is a competition aspect to getting the invitation. Is there a general cut-off GPA (for all colleges) or a local cut-off AFROTC detachment ranking (in terms of GPA)? Would he be better off with less competitive peers (say in terms of entering class SAT average score) or do the less competitive colleges get to invite fewer students to summer training?
5Day
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2015
- Messages
- 1,732
Pima, Kinnem and others may be able to give you the AFROTC specific answer, but I will give you my opinion.
I don't think you should try to game the system and sacrifice getting the best possible education. You want to find the school that is the "best fit" academically, socially and financially. That is the school your DS will thrive at and get the best education. If the school is too easy they will not be challenged and they will get bored. That boredom can then lead to poor grades, even though the classes are easy. At the other end of the spectrum I have seen way too many students get into academically reach school (typically because of sports) and they then struggle, or they go into an "easy" major and they graduate. But, they never really become educated. Sorry it is the cop out response, and probably doesn't help much, but finding the "right" school is not easy.
I don't think you should try to game the system and sacrifice getting the best possible education. You want to find the school that is the "best fit" academically, socially and financially. That is the school your DS will thrive at and get the best education. If the school is too easy they will not be challenged and they will get bored. That boredom can then lead to poor grades, even though the classes are easy. At the other end of the spectrum I have seen way too many students get into academically reach school (typically because of sports) and they then struggle, or they go into an "easy" major and they graduate. But, they never really become educated. Sorry it is the cop out response, and probably doesn't help much, but finding the "right" school is not easy.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2010
- Messages
- 16,005
There is no particular GPA that is the cutoff. Perhaps it's better said that the cutoff GPA will vary from year to year and it probably isn't really GPA at all but ones position on the OML (of which the GPA is a component). Basically, each year, the AF needs X amount of new officers to meet their needs. That nmber changes each year. While downsizing the numbers dropped significantly. All you can do is go in and do your best and hope your best is good enough. Leadership ability and other factors will also come into play in the selection. Pima can probably provide a more detailed view but at the bottom of it all this is a pretty good model I'm providing.
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
Okay here is a couple of things.
Kinnem is correct it is an OML type situation. There are certain % awarded to certain aspects, such as, their cgpa, PFA, AFOQT and CoC's ranking. Plus going rated or not.
~ The cgpa has a twist to it. Tech majors are given an edge and because of that it is common for them to have a lower cgpa. 3.0/3.1. Non-tech majore @3.4 cgpa.
~ The CoC ranking is the biggest chunk.
~ If they fail the AFOQT it is going to be an issue. They may be selected to attend SFT if they failed it, but must pass it prior or get a waiver. AFOQT is like the ACT. They can only take it twice, and must be at least 180 days apart. The AFOQT is last test, not a superscore or best sitting. In other words it can be at a disadvantage to take it a second time since if they did better on the 1st, you are still stuck with the 2nd test scores.
~ They will be asked to sign paperwork whether they want to go rated or not.
~~ If they sign rated than they are required to apply for a rated board as a C300. They can't say yes they will go rated to get the slot and change their mind later....gaming the system. Basically, again this is like going tech. It is an edge to sign rated paperwork.
The selection board is national. It does not award a % to each college. Basically, they will say they Have @1900 slots. If 100% from that one school makes the cut and only 75% from another makes it so, than so be it. Some colleges statistically will have a historically a different higher or lower rate than others.
Scholarship are considered "masked" or "blind". This means the board has no clue which candidate is scholarship and which is not. However, impo the reason you see a large % of scholarship selected is because many of those cadets are also on merit at their colleges. Most college merit will require a 3.0+ to maintain the scholarship. My DS was both AFROTC and merit. His merit required a 3.2 gpa...note gpa, not cgpa. IOWS if for even 1 semester his gpa dropped under 3.2, but overall was 3.4 cgpa, he was put on probation by the school not AFROTC, since AFROTC scholarship min was 2.5.
My best advice is to talk to each unit and ask very pointed questions. What is the avg % selected for SFT? What is the avg cgpa for those selected? I would also have your child ask to meet cadets in their major that are POCs (C300s). Dets are different. They have different personalities.
As everyone has stated as a POC they will get a stipend. The only clarification I would state is that they will be paid on the 1st and the 15th, not the beginning and the end. Pay is done in the arrears. Thus, if they contract on the 5th, their 15th stipend will only be for the days between the 5th and the 15th, not the full stipend.
~ I would also not count on whatever stipend it is now. DS entered and it was 250/350/450/550. Due to sequestration they dropped the stipend. Nobody knows the future.
~ Same is true for selection rate. In the last 4 years it has jumped between 55% to 93%. It has a lot to do with the pool size which nobody can predict currently. The only thing that HQ AFROTC knows for sure when they contract as 100s (scholarship) is how many 100s contracted, but that is it. They cannot predict how many will stay as 200s. They cannot predict how many 250s will enter. Yet, they do know how many slots will be available for SFT. Thus, if in the end they have 2800 200/250/500s, and only 1900 slots than that % will be lower than if they have 2200 and need 2000.
Good luck. Hope that helps.
Kinnem is correct it is an OML type situation. There are certain % awarded to certain aspects, such as, their cgpa, PFA, AFOQT and CoC's ranking. Plus going rated or not.
~ The cgpa has a twist to it. Tech majors are given an edge and because of that it is common for them to have a lower cgpa. 3.0/3.1. Non-tech majore @3.4 cgpa.
~ The CoC ranking is the biggest chunk.
~ If they fail the AFOQT it is going to be an issue. They may be selected to attend SFT if they failed it, but must pass it prior or get a waiver. AFOQT is like the ACT. They can only take it twice, and must be at least 180 days apart. The AFOQT is last test, not a superscore or best sitting. In other words it can be at a disadvantage to take it a second time since if they did better on the 1st, you are still stuck with the 2nd test scores.
~ They will be asked to sign paperwork whether they want to go rated or not.
~~ If they sign rated than they are required to apply for a rated board as a C300. They can't say yes they will go rated to get the slot and change their mind later....gaming the system. Basically, again this is like going tech. It is an edge to sign rated paperwork.
The selection board is national. It does not award a % to each college. Basically, they will say they Have @1900 slots. If 100% from that one school makes the cut and only 75% from another makes it so, than so be it. Some colleges statistically will have a historically a different higher or lower rate than others.
Scholarship are considered "masked" or "blind". This means the board has no clue which candidate is scholarship and which is not. However, impo the reason you see a large % of scholarship selected is because many of those cadets are also on merit at their colleges. Most college merit will require a 3.0+ to maintain the scholarship. My DS was both AFROTC and merit. His merit required a 3.2 gpa...note gpa, not cgpa. IOWS if for even 1 semester his gpa dropped under 3.2, but overall was 3.4 cgpa, he was put on probation by the school not AFROTC, since AFROTC scholarship min was 2.5.
My best advice is to talk to each unit and ask very pointed questions. What is the avg % selected for SFT? What is the avg cgpa for those selected? I would also have your child ask to meet cadets in their major that are POCs (C300s). Dets are different. They have different personalities.
As everyone has stated as a POC they will get a stipend. The only clarification I would state is that they will be paid on the 1st and the 15th, not the beginning and the end. Pay is done in the arrears. Thus, if they contract on the 5th, their 15th stipend will only be for the days between the 5th and the 15th, not the full stipend.
~ I would also not count on whatever stipend it is now. DS entered and it was 250/350/450/550. Due to sequestration they dropped the stipend. Nobody knows the future.
~ Same is true for selection rate. In the last 4 years it has jumped between 55% to 93%. It has a lot to do with the pool size which nobody can predict currently. The only thing that HQ AFROTC knows for sure when they contract as 100s (scholarship) is how many 100s contracted, but that is it. They cannot predict how many will stay as 200s. They cannot predict how many 250s will enter. Yet, they do know how many slots will be available for SFT. Thus, if in the end they have 2800 200/250/500s, and only 1900 slots than that % will be lower than if they have 2200 and need 2000.
Good luck. Hope that helps.