College or Service Academy?

Suffice to say that when I and several other family members attended there were no rapes and associated courts martial,

Just so I can understand, are you upset at the Rapes, or the fact that they result in a court martial?

no abortions

Since there were no female mids when you and your father attended, I guess that one's correct.

no cheating scandals,

Well that's just a silly statement to make.

no male/female gay clubs, male alumni didn't marry one another in the academy chapel

I guess that's because all you open minded folks kept them locked safely away in the closet, of course you're not saying that those pesky gays simply didn't exist back then are you? Don't be shy, tell us how you really think.

Proudmom13,

I don't think you have a lot to worry about, no institution, and those that attend are perfect, never have been, and never will be.
 
Suffice to say that when I and several other family members attended there were no rapes and associated courts martial, no abortions, no cheating scandals, the quarterback of the football team was not on both academic and honor roll probation, no male/female gay clubs, male alumni didn't marry one another in the academy chapel, etc. These occurrences are rare, but nevertheless have occurred at the academies. They would never have occurred back in the day (45+ years ago for me, 75 years ago for my father). Good luck to you son. It sounds like he will be successful whatever he chooses.

From the New York Times, June 5, 1978 article about the 1976 cheating scandal at USMA.

"The ranks of the 990 graduates include 92 readmitted cadets who accepted a Pentagon amnesty requiring a year of “useful service” away from the Academy. More than 60 others also accused of cheating on a take‐home examination declined the offer, with the majority continuing their education elsewhere."
 
@pinknprincess I am posting in this thread because my advice to you is to read every word @Capt MJ writes, and take it as some of the best advice you could possibly get, here. She's pretty awesome, and has "been there and done that", which includes being a Battalion Officer at USNA, among other things.

If you decide to accept your Offer of Appointment, you will need to get your Police Record Check, Proof of Citizenship, and Body Alteration (Tattoos & Piercings) form sent in right away. Those are the first three (3) things they require right after you accept, and the police record check requires fingerprinting in most states, so it can take a week or more to process and get to USNA. Later this month, USNA will be sending out Permit To Report (PTR) packages which have over a dozen other forms that need to be filled out, including a couple to bring with you to I-Day on June 28th.

Good luck.
 
Suffice to say that when I and several other family members attended there were no rapes and associated courts martial, no abortions, no cheating scandals, the quarterback of the football team was not on both academic and honor roll probation, no male/female gay clubs, male alumni didn't marry one another in the academy chapel, etc. These occurrences are rare, but nevertheless have occurred at the academies. They would never have occurred back in the day (45+ years ago for me, 75 years ago for my father). Good luck to you son. It sounds like he will be successful whatever he chooses.
Maybe so... bit that's not reason to choose another school over an academy as the same stuff happens there too. Welcome to the PC 21st century.
 
No institution is perfect, there will always be and have been negative elements in any service academy or any civilian university. Also, no one can be 100% sure whether they will hate a choice down the road in two years. I know people who regret going to a service academy and those who regret going to civilian universities. However, so close to decision time, one should know in his heart the path to take. There will always be trade offs and sacrifices no matter which route you choose. Only you can decide which one resonates with you more.
 
If you can, take a trip to USNA again, preferably on a regular school day, walk around, sit down on a bench and just watch everything that happens. Do the same thing with your civilian school. Then ask yourself, next year, which bench do you see yourself sitting on? I think you already know where you want to go. You just want 50 other people to validate it for you. Good luck. BTW my USAFA grad was the most unsure appointee I have ever met.
 
Suffice to say that when I and several other family members attended there were no rapes and associated courts martial,

Just so I can understand, are you upset at the Rapes, or the fact that they result in a court martial?

no abortions

Since there were no female mids when you and your father attended, I guess that one's correct.

no cheating scandals,

Well that's just a silly statement to make.

no male/female gay clubs, male alumni didn't marry one another in the academy chapel

I guess that's because all you open minded folks kept them locked safely away in the closet, of course you're not saying that those pesky gays simply didn't exist back then are you? Don't be shy, tell us how you really think.

Proudmom13,

I don't think you have a lot to worry about, no institution, and those that attend are perfect, never have been, and never will be.

Your post is U.S.A. 2018 style. No one can actually share what they feel unless it aligns with the flavor of the day.

Some grads liked it when cheaters were punished quickly and surely. Some took pride in surviving P.T. beat downs. Some hated walking the strips but they are proud to have endured it. The standards are being relaxed more every year.

Some think men are meant to couple with women, and that no one should apologize for their religion. To even compliment or support the president today is often met with jeers, insults and worse.

Not saying I agree or disagree with what has been said, but piling on someone for civilly expressing their beliefs is bad form.
 
Not saying I agree or disagree with what has been said, but piling on someone for civilly expressing their beliefs is bad form.

A post that is blatantly homophobic is not civil. Homophobia has no place at an academy or in the military and should not be tolerated on this forum.
 
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Not saying I agree or disagree with what has been said, but piling on someone for civilly expressing their beliefs is bad form.

A post that is blatantly homophobic is not civil. Homophobia has no place in the at an academy or in the military and should not be tolerated on this forum.

He is making observations based on his experience. He graduated from the academy over 45 years ago. His ideas were the "norm" back then. Realizing there's a new "norm" now, it doesn't make him or his post homophobic.
 
He is making observations based on his experience. He graduated from the academy over 45 years ago. His ideas were the "norm" back then. Realizing there's a new "norm" now, it doesn't make him or his post homophobic.

No he is not. He is using the fact that the LGBT community is now allowed to serve openly as a way to attack the academies. That is homophobia and is really no different than if he complained about black midshipmen and cadets being allowed to marry in the chapel.
 
I am strongly suggesting to all involved in this thread to stand down and focus on the original question, which was SA vs regular college.

I am also moving this to the USNA forum as the question specifically pertains to USNA vs regular college.
 
Well I read the original question and skipped to page two to see where the thread went. I feel like I was simply going to the ice cream cone store and somehow I ended up at the butcher, lol. As my dad used to say, no matter where you go, "poof" there you are ;)
 
Some grads liked it when cheaters were punished quickly and surely. Some took pride in surviving P.T. beat downs. Some hated walking the strips but they are proud to have endured it. The standards are being relaxed more every year.

So to keep this somewhat on topic, could you describe how things are different now from when you attended the Academy. What can someone expect when trying to decide between a SA or Civilian School. What was your experience like and how would you compare that to what someone could expect today based on what it was like when you attended. Should new appointees base there decision on what the academy was like years ago or how it has evolved to current times.
 
Some grads liked it when cheaters were punished quickly and surely. Some took pride in surviving P.T. beat downs. Some hated walking the strips but they are proud to have endured it. The standards are being relaxed more every year.
So to keep this somewhat on topic, could you describe how things are different now from when you attended the Academy. What can someone expect when trying to decide between a SA or Civilian School. What was your experience like and how would you compare that to what someone could expect today based on what it was like when you attended. Should new appointees base there decision on what the academy was like years ago or how it has evolved to current times.

Probably not. I'm out.
 
I have less than a month to decide if I want to make the commitment to serve my country and attend a service academy this summer. I've always wanted to go to a service academy and now that the time is here...I'm really nervous.

I don't want this opportunity to pass me by. Everyone is telling me to choose what I want but what should I do if my heart tells me to pick USNA when I may have a better chance to pursue the career I want if I attend a civilian college?

P.S. Sorry for the long post but any insight into how a service academy grad or college grad decided to attend their colleges would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

THIS is the post you are looking for:
https://www.serviceacademyforums.co...-those-who-havent-decided-yet.72/#post-147259
 
However, when I think about my dream job, and in terms of a civilian career, I think of something in the medical or law fields.

Wow... this is a long thread, and I didn't and won't take the time to read what everyone else has said , some of this may be new and some a repeat.

First, only you can decide whether USNA is right for you. You say you did NASS/CVW , you've been through the process, so you should know what USNA is about. I will admit, I was a little uneasy with your questions about paying back tuition if you leave , but talk with your BGO if you have questions like that. Bottom line, it has to be your decision -- and you have to do it for you. Ask yourself, what drew your attention to USNA in the first place, and why do you keep going back to it.

Second, you need to be committed to the USNA experience. It's okay to be nervous and scared. I am willing to bet that no graduate ever slept well the night before I Day, and no one can tell you they loved USNA all the time. (It's a lot easier to say that 30 years later). If you accept your appointment, turn the fear into action, and do the best you can.

Finally, it was the quote above that prompted my response. Some may critical that you are not 100% committed to a military career. I only ask my candidates to be open minded. You are only 18-19 years old, with a whole life ahead of you. I know many classmates (including myself), that were gungy and dead set on a military career when they entered, only to leave after 5-10 years. I also know classmates that were pretty non-chalant about the whole military thing , and they had very successful Navy careers. Life is full of twists and turns, and many end up in a different place than what they thought in High School.

As a BGO, I am not a recruiter --and go back to my first comment, only you can decide whether USNA is right for you. However, I think its safe to say that nobody has ever been held back in a civilian career because they attended a Service Academy. I know plenty of lawyers (including myself) as well as doctors that attended service academies and /or served in the military, and I am sure that none of them will ever say they regretted it. The lessons you learn, including leadership, communications skills, and honor will serve you wherever life leads you.
 
However, when I think about my dream job, and in terms of a civilian career, I think of something in the medical or law fields.

...........

As a BGO, I am not a recruiter --and go back to my first comment, only you can decide whether USNA is right for you. However, I think its safe to say that nobody has ever been held back in a civilian career because they attended a Service Academy. I know plenty of lawyers (including myself) as well as doctors that attended service academies and /or served in the military, and I am sure that none of them will ever say they regretted it. The lessons you learn, including leadership, communications skills, and honor will serve you wherever life leads you.

Wow! Lots of our fellow BGOs do think that they are recruiters and like you, I consider myself to be more of an adviser and when I interview, the eyes of the Admissions team. To your comment about lawyers and doctors, I totally agree and often get asked about it. My class did not have any path to Med School and nobody went there when we graduated yet I have a significant number of classmates who are docs now. I also have more than five who are clergy of different denominations including the first USNA grad to reach flag rank in the Chaplain Corps. I totally agree that the lessons that we learned have stood my classmates and I well in the military and civilian world. To partially address the kerfluffle that popped up in this thread, one of the most important things that I learned at USNA was dealing with change. During my first two years at USNA, we were all make and then BOOM! we had a coed Naval Academy. Some people adapted faster than others and some, especially those who never had the benefit of female company mates and/or teammates might still view the subject through a more dated lens. Throughout my career(s), I've dealt with changes that seem to come at an accelerating pace and I believe that the ability to deal with and hopefully lead/manage change is a key skillset. The changes to the service and service academies in the wake of LGBT acceptance is just one more change to deal with. Unless we are the Commander in Chief level, we are orders followers on this and a good Naval Officer should carry out the orders without regard to their personal opinions or religious beliefs. On thing is for sure, even if one does not agree with the end of don't ask/don't tell, it is NOT USNA's choice in the matter. Same with abortions - like it or not, it is the law of the land and not the fault of USNA.
 
First, the USNA picked you, you've earned/won an appointment. There are people who have a tough time seeing beyond their own experience, interests and motivations as they tell you who you should be, what your goals should be, and what should drive you. Nobody here knows you well enough to determine whether or not you are prepared for the USNA; don't listen to that stuff.

In April 2016 our daughter had held a USNA appointment for 4mths trying to decide between USNA, PAC12 Cali school, and a couple of Ivys. Sounds like she was pretty close to where you are now.

My Wife (DD's Mom) is a Doctor, She'd tell you:
1) One of the partners in her Ansth. group, and the head Doc. 0f a top notch Hospital here in Microsoft-Land is a USNA grad who started his career in the seat of an A4.
2) The most recent partner added to my wife's group is a USAFA grad who made it into an absurdly competitive slot at one of the top 5 hospitals in the Seattle area. Her USAFA degree and running a trauma unit in Afghanistan kinda set her apart)
3) The average age for 1st year med students is 32.
4) SA's are among the 20-25 College degrees that actually make a difference in med-school admissions

I'm an attorney, my put is:
1) The average age of a 1st year law student is 26
2) I could go-on for a long while about the value of undergrad degrees in legal practice. Keeping it short, BS vs BA has a big impact on your earning potential and your quality of life as an Atty. Where your undergrad degree came from doesn't matter much UNLESS its from a SA, or a top end IVY. Going "straight through undergrad- to law school-into practice leaves you with a lot of things to prove to employers/clients. The young Atty. who went to a SA and put in 5 yrs as an officer has already proven much of what other young lawyers prove doing the grunt work of a law firm for a couple of years. I work with small Tech companies; most CEO, CTOs, COOs, CFOs would take a USNA grad+Adv Degree over a Harvard grad+Adv Degree in a millisecond.
3) I'd tell you to think like a lawyer. The Navy is offering you 4years of paid education in return for 5 years service, with an option to leave the USNA anytime in your first 2 years ("get out of jail free", no questions asked). That's the deal---full stop. Its the deal the Navy feels gets them the best officer pool. If the NAVY only wanted USNA students who were 100% sure that they wanted to do 10yrs-20yrs-30yrs....... they'd require 10yrs+ active duty. Its a 5 year service commitment precisely because the USN wants to be in the mix for people like you. I respect people's commitment to a lifetime of military service, but the suggestion that YOU have to have that commitment as a prerequisite to USNA enrollment is, (putting it gently), a pretty narrow point of view. I've been to I-Day, trust me, you will not see 100% certainty on the faces of the vast majority of Plebes that day---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and the NAVY wants every single one! (doubts and all).

My CL2020 DD would tell you:
1) After recruiting visits all over the country, it all came down to the Mids she'd met on her USNA visits. She wanted to be with them, she wanted to be part of that tribe. NOTE: my wife had doubts about USNA until I-Day. After she met the mids/plebes and their parents DW couldn't wait to get to the mid store and buy her tee-shirt +around $400 of other stuff
2) DD's doubts lasted about 10days into plebe summer. DD can't see herself anywhere else but USNA, there is ZERO doubt re: her '2 for 7 letter of agreement" and she now plans on staying in past those first 5 years.
3) She'd ask you where the challenge is in something you are 100% sure about?
4) She'd tell you that she is vastly ahead of her HS friends (not just academically)
5) She'd tell you that a couple of her close guy friends at USNA are gay and "out" its a non-issue.
6) She'd tell you that her friends are "friends for life" and that she feels a part of her platoon, company, Cl2020, the Brigade, All USNA grads, and the USN.
7) She'd tell you that she plans on buying a piece of land in Washington State with her 2nd year loan $
8) She'd tell you that if she does a "5 and dive" and ends up in Med school or Law School at 25-26, she will be vastly better prepared than her class mates with respect to maturity, confidence, work ethic and finances.
9) She'd tell you that one of the things she was most proud of in her plebe year was summer block fleet rotation and a stoic senior enlisted telling her that he would be "proud to have her as his section Officer". ....................................I can't even tell you how proud hearing her say that makes me,(talk about a growth experience).

Looooong I know, but DW and I have one more thing to say: Both of us ran straight through Undergrad-Gradschool-Prof. Exams-Private Practice. We made decisions about our lives at 19-20 that governed the subsequent 30 years. Over-all we made good decisions, but we both wish that we'd taken more time to "know ourselves" before we decided what we wanted to do as a life's work and settled in. Of all the great things about the USNA and our DD's choice to go there, DW and I are most pleased that our daughter will make her lifetime career choices at 25-26, ( "stay in", Med School,Law School, Etc.)having seen more of the world, having known the work and responsibility of being a Naval Officer, and most important knowing herself; For DW and I this is huge.

Like I said, nobody here knows you well enough to tell you whether or not the USNA is right for you. That said, you have so much life ahead of you Pink, don't let chasing t "dream job" at 18yrs old be the sole focus.

PS: Funny, when my DD was struggling with her choice I recall asking for help here. Capt. MJ was a huge help to us too. ----, just saw OLD B&G replied while I was typing (another solid voice of experience)
 
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