Do I have at least a decent chance of appointment?

kinnem said:
LemmeWonder said:
I already recognized that I am making excuses for lack of participation in a previous post. I am, however, considering that ROTC may be a better fit for me as a student due to my current stress experience. While I plan on continuing to strive for the USAFA standards, I know that there is AFROTC at my state university, so I may choose to focus on my academics if trying to integrate sports spreads me too thin. I don't yet know my limits and if making my application competitive for the academy is outside of my capacity then I will have to look into different possible routes to the AF.

Thanks to everyone for all the insight and input.
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Typically ROTC programs can be more competitive than the academies. Generally a bit higher avg. GPA, SAT/ACT etc etc. This is because the academies selection process at least starts out as geocentric. ROTC programs do not have that restriction and can pick from anyone across the country.
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Don't ROTC programs pick from the students attending the school at which they are based? I haven't done as much research on ROTC, so sorry if this is kind of an obvious question.
 
You need to do some research on ROTC scholarships now.
Here are some big points
1.The selection process as kinnem stated is national. If they have 1000 scholarships to give out and the top 1000 are from California, than that is how the cookie crumbles.
~ It is not like SAs where they start out by spreading the wealth among each state and end up doing the national pool.
2. AFROTC scholarship will not include anything (curriculum or ECs) from your senior year. The exception is your SAT/ACT
3. SAT/ACT is NOT superscored for AFROTC. It is best sitting. Currently, to feel competitive you want to be @1300
4. Your intended major will matter. @80% of all scholarships go to tech majors (STEM).

There are many other aspects to be cognizant of, but these are the biggies that you need to know right now.

I would say, don't fool yourself, kinnem is correct the scholarship is as competitive as an appointment. @16% of applicants will receive a scholarship. Many USAFA candidates will apply for a scholarship as their plan B.
 
Pima said:
You need to do some research on ROTC scholarships now.
Here are some big points
1.The selection process as kinnem stated is national. If they have 1000 scholarships to give out and the top 1000 are from California, than that is how the cookie crumbles.
~ It is not like SAs where they start out by spreading the wealth among each state and end up doing the national pool.
2. AFROTC scholarship will not include anything (curriculum or ECs) from your senior year. The exception is your SAT/ACT
3. SAT/ACT is NOT superscored for AFROTC. It is best sitting. Currently, to feel competitive you want to be @1300
4. Your intended major will matter. @80% of all scholarships go to tech majors (STEM).

There are many other aspects to be cognizant of, but these are the biggies that you need to know right now.

I would say, don't fool yourself, kinnem is correct the scholarship is as competitive as an appointment. @16% of applicants will receive a scholarship. Many USAFA candidates will apply for a scholarship as their plan B.
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I'll have to read a little more, because I think I understand what you're saying.
I should be taking the SAT/ACT in my junior year, but if I don't score high enough, this is helpful so thank you.
Alright.
My intended major is biology; I don't know if this counts. Even if I cannot get a scholarship, I am still weighing my ability to deal with the type high stress environment that USAFA appears to be.

I'll continue to do more research; thank you.
 
Lemme, where did this "oh, I'm afraid of STRESS" come from? There's hardly less stress in ROTC, plus you may incur loans that will give you MAJOR stress for many years after graduation.

Maybe you should do a little, or a lot, more reading and find out where you want to be.

Do you want to serve as an officer in the US Air Force (or navy, army, etc)? In what capacity do you see yourself in ten years? Are you in uniform? Are you deployed to a country you'd never actually heard of before? Are you paying back student loans? What job are you doing? Consider those things before you write off any service academy or ROTC program. and don't think because it's "just" ROTC that it is somehow easier.
 
What fencersmother said! My son was frequently stressed balancing the demands of NROTC, academics, and a social life. We wouldn't hear from him for weeks at a time because he was so busy. Also, any military program tries to impose stress. If you can't handle stress in the squad bay, you probably won't handle it on the battlefield either.
 
I agree with fencersmother!! My DD is in her Freshman year at college on a national NROTC scholarship, majoring in Engineering Physics.... It has been and continues to be extremely demanding. There are required study and tutor hours, not to mention homework, PT, assigned watches and other NROTC activities. Many of her friends don't have these same demands and therefore don't understand why she is not available for them as she was in high school. She said some time after the first couple of weeks into the semester that learning the fine art of time management was an often difficult adjustment she had to make.

My DD's dream since the 8th grade was to serve as an officer in the Navy or Marine Corps. Last year my daughter applied to USNA and due to the extreme competitiveness of our particular district, she received the dreaded TWE (thin white envelope) of rejection. She had also received the NROTC scholarship. While initially she was devastated, she is now thriving in NROTC. She has decided this is the path she was meant to take and recently made the decision to not complete her reapplication to USNA. Her dad and I are so proud of her....:)

If what you really want to do is lead awesome men and women in our armed forces, whether you commission through and Academy or through an ROTC scholarship, it all ends the same..... with a commission to lead and make a difference.
 
Also Lemme, you list your three college "choices" as USAFA, some vague "Ivy League" institution, which you can't afford (you say), or your local (presumably state) U. Well, did you truly expect "less stress" at this Ivy league college you can't afford? How is incurring $100K in debt less stressful? (it happens, go to College Confidential if you think it doesn't. Lots of bemoaning over there. Or perhaps you'll join the woman who graduated from Columbia after having incurred $100K in debt with her Psychology degree who bragged as she joined the Occupy Wall Streeters?)
 
fencersmother said:
Lemme, where did this "oh, I'm afraid of STRESS" come from? There's hardly less stress in ROTC, plus you may incur loans that will give you MAJOR stress for many years after graduation.

Maybe you should do a little, or a lot, more reading and find out where you want to be.

Do you want to serve as an officer in the US Air Force (or navy, army, etc)? In what capacity do you see yourself in ten years? Are you in uniform? Are you deployed to a country you'd never actually heard of before? Are you paying back student loans? What job are you doing? Consider those things before you write off any service academy or ROTC program. and don't think because it's "just" ROTC that it is somehow easier.
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I'm not afraid of stress; I do handle and work in a high stress environment. I am only thinking of the possibility that if I am overwhelmed by pairing military program with college ROTC will not require me to transfer into a different school. The financials are not an issue; my parents have been using a prepaid college tuition program to save money for college. With my more recent contributions and the program they chose, I am guaranteed the tuition of my state university--which according to my current calculations will be enough to get me through most of the colleges I want to attend.

I do see myself in uniform ten years from now. My aims are on the biology and laboratory medicine fields; if possible, I want to contribute to new discoveries in science that will help the medical world. I'll respond to the question on deployment with the same that I give my friends: that I want to serve my country and if that means being deployed into a foreign or hostile area, then that is what I agreed to and whether I will enjoy such an activity is irrelevant, only that I serve to the fullest of my capacity. I do not plan on taking out student loans, and if I took one out my parents have stated that they would disown me because they haven't been saving since I was born to have me start life with debts. Both of my parents managed to get through college without loans, my mother through work and my father through the AF and working. I am still trying to fight my mother on this; she does not agree with me attending the academy and would prefer, but still does not care, for ROTC. She would rather I skip service altogether, and vehemently supports that I live a entirely civilian life.

fencersmother said:
Also Lemme, you list your three college "choices" as USAFA, some vague "Ivy League" institution, which you can't afford (you say), or your local (presumably state) U. Well, did you truly expect "less stress" at this Ivy league college you can't afford? How is incurring $100K in debt less stressful? (it happens, go to College Confidential if you think it doesn't. Lots of bemoaning over there. Or perhaps you'll join the woman who graduated from Columbia after having incurred $100K in debt with her Psychology degree who bragged as she joined the Occupy Wall Streeters?)
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I misrepresented my choices for colleges, so you have my apologies. I solidly plan on applying for those three colleges. The Ivy I plan on applying for is Stanford University. The main colleges on my "apply for" list are UC schools, within range of a commute (in the aspect of room and board charges). I do not expect to have less stress, but I do expect that stress to be of a slightly different nature. Right now, I know can handle and adapt the homework up until 3:00 am, waking up at 5:00, dealing with fifteen hours of sleep in a weekday when if gets bad. I know that I can adjust my schedule so as to accommodate better time management. This is the type of stress that I anticipate would be in an Ivy League. The AFA or ROTC programs, I believe, would have a slightly different kind of stress because of the multi-faceted sections of education in these programs. If I'm wrong in believing that Ivy League colleges would have a more academically centered stress, then please correct me.
 
While Stanford is a great institution, it is NOT "Ivy League," which is an athletic league of some pretty swanky but all east-coast institutions: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Penn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown, and Columbia.

The history of Stanford may surprise you!

Some would say that the stress of the Ivy League is more related to gaining acceptance than to the actual academic work, which some consider to be rather ho-hum considering what it took to get in. OK, now, everyone chill out. I'm not saying I.L. kids aren't SMART or deserving or any of those things. But, you can be FAT and go to any of those schools, you can never have held a job or excelled in sports, or held any leadership position whatsoever. And, of course, once you graduate, you incur no further obligation to these institutions other than to pay back any loans and sport the sweatshirt at tailgates.
 
fencersmother said:
While Stanford is a great institution, it is NOT "Ivy League," which is an athletic league of some pretty swanky but all east-coast institutions: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Penn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown, and Columbia.

The history of Stanford may surprise you!

Some would say that the stress of the Ivy League is more related to gaining acceptance than to the actual academic work, which some consider to be rather ho-hum considering what it took to get in. OK, now, everyone chill out. I'm not saying I.L. kids aren't SMART or deserving or any of those things. But, you can be FAT and go to any of those schools, you can never have held a job or excelled in sports, or held any leadership position whatsoever. And, of course, once you graduate, you incur no further obligation to these institutions other than to pay back any loans and sport the sweatshirt at tailgates.
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Well then I've been deceivingly told my entire life that us West Coasters had I.L. out here. *sigh* Oh well. I'll admit, I'm coddled. Everyone tells me how I'm smart and I have a bright future. I had IL scores. Honestly, I think it's a pile of bull. I've met people much smarter, harder working, and cleverer than I. I've met people I wish my best days were like their off days. Anywho, this forum is a rather good place because it's a community that seems more than willing than to point out my flaws. The only problem with going to a school where peepses can be FAT and incur no obligation is that I don't feel that it would be a very fulfilling path for me. If I do go to school based on academic merit, however, my second back-up plan is to apply for OTC after I graduate. If that doesn't work, I can start as an E...6? I think? If even that fails. That's my absolute last resort because my mom would Flip.
Out. if I enlisted. An besides, I'm not one much for sweaters or tailgates--they're both inconvenient and make your hair messy.
 
BCT makes one's hair unbelievably messy! Take a look at some of the pictures!

I'm sure you're smart and all those wonderful qualities and I applaud you for your desire to serve. Remember to take the most rigorous coursework available to you, get a summer job, and stay out of trouble!
 
Don't let the words "Ivy League" even cross your mind. For all intent and purpose, Stanford has been recognized as a "West Coast Ivy". You have to remember, the "Ivy League" type were part of the original east cost academics for rich people. It's only tradition that calls it an "Ivy League". Technically, The eight institutions are Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Yale University. But I'll bet you my paycheck, that when job applications, prestige, etc. are being looked at; Stanford, Georgetown, MIT, and a whole crap load of others; (Including the United States Military Academies); rank right up there with the "Ivy 8".
 
fencersmother said:
BCT makes one's hair unbelievably messy! Take a look at some of the pictures!

I'm sure you're smart and all those wonderful qualities and I applaud you for your desire to serve. Remember to take the most rigorous coursework available to you, get a summer job, and stay out of trouble!
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Ah, but at BCT everyone's hair is messy. At a tailgate, I'm the one that spills something down her sweater and gets her hair stuck in the car door. Why thank you. I am, and I might collapse, but it's working so far.

Christcorp said:
Don't let the words "Ivy League" even cross your mind. For all intent and purpose, Stanford has been recognized as a "West Coast Ivy". You have to remember, the "Ivy League" type were part of the original east cost academics for rich people. It's only tradition that calls it an "Ivy League". Technically, The eight institutions are Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Yale University. But I'll bet you my paycheck, that when job applications, prestige, etc. are being looked at; Stanford, Georgetown, MIT, and a whole crap load of others; (Including the United States Military Academies); rank right up there with the "Ivy 8".
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That's why UCLA is a higher on my list than Stanford, but being able to go there would be cool. Your paychecks would be great if we disagreed, but unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to figure out another way. Thanks for the insight.
 
Since we have gone off track a bit. I have to tell you the dirty little secret about AFROTC. It is called the fine print. The scholarship will state that it is 4 years, but in reality it is a 2+2. As a sophomore you must be selected to attend summer field training. The board will not know if you are on scholarship or not. Basically the slate is wiped clean once in ROTC. It is again a national board for selection. Last year the rate was @90%, the year before that it was 58%. It can vary that drastically. If not selected they can decide to dis-enroll you from the program. Thus, if you need that scholarship to pay for the tuition, than realize this is how their program works.
 
Pima said:
Since we have gone off track a bit. I have to tell you the dirty little secret about AFROTC. It is called the fine print. The scholarship will state that it is 4 years, but in reality it is a 2+2. As a sophomore you must be selected to attend summer field training. The board will not know if you are on scholarship or not. Basically the slate is wiped clean once in ROTC. It is again a national board for selection. Last year the rate was @90%, the year before that it was 58%. It can vary that drastically. If not selected they can decide to dis-enroll you from the program. Thus, if you need that scholarship to pay for the tuition, than realize this is how their program works.
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I don't absolutely need the scholarship, but it would remove a lot of stress and reduce the chances of me possibly needing to borrow money from gosh knows where but hopefully not the bank. ROTC is on a year for year type thing, correct? I remember reading somewhere that it's a 2 or 4 year scholarship, so maybe it's just that they're not saying that the 4 year part is actually getting 2 2-years in a row. If I can't get an ROTC scholarship, I could still potentially apply for OTC, no? Apologies for the ignorance, but what does applying mean? I'm guessing it's not quite the same as sending in your resume and taking the um... holy bat balls, what's the term... aptitude test...thing...ASFAB? Don't kill me if that's wrong.
 
My best advice is you go to the AFROTC website now, because you need to do the research on it all, starting from the types of scholarships.
~ I am not sure biology is classified as a tech, so that will matter for you too.

OCS is not something you do for ROTC.

It is the 3rd type of commissioning source. It is a different path, just like ROTC is different path from USAFA.

ASVAB is not the exam you will take. That is for enlisted. It is the AFOQT for officers. You will take that exam as part of the process for SFT (summer field training). It is part of your score that will be used to determine if you will be selected for SFT, along with other things.

I feel that at this point, we really need to go back on track for USAFA purposes. If you are curious about AFROTC than start researching the threads under that forum and post there. However, before you do, do some due diligence first.

I am just saying, that I think you are teetering on asking to be spoonfed information that is on the AFROTC website.
~ IE it is a year to year thing or a 2 or 4 thing. Those answers are not only in the ROTC forums here, but on the AFROTC website too.

I really am not trying to be harsh, we are here for all of guys, but there is a difference from the basic questions and the finesse questions that trip everyone up.
~ IE What is the difference between a principal nomination and a competitive nomination. Or what is the difference between an HSSP AFROTC scholarship and an ICSP? The first is an easy search on this forum, I believe it is a sticky on the nomination forum. The latter however is rarely offered, maybe a few every year will get one. Thus, it might be hard to get a grasp on the difference.

Good luck. Since you are a junior now, I would spend more time studying that PSAT if you want to be competitive for college merit. Colleges love to boast % of those that are NMSF or NMF attending their college.
~ Our DS was AFROTC and merit. The college he decided to attend, was in essence free. AFROTC paid tuition and his merit paid Room and Board. He was an NMSF and that also, impo, got him into the scholars/honors program for his college.
~ Only your junior year PSAT will count for the NSMF or NMF. The PSAT is traditionally on target for predicting your SAT score. Just add a 0 to the end. My DS had a 219. He took the SAT once and got 2190. He took the ACT twice because he did better on that from a conversion factor. Same for my younger kids. Their PSAT scores were really close to their SAT score, maybe 30-50 points off from their 1st SAT.
 
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